Centurion Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Oh boy! I was reading some international news websites yesterday when I found the following article. The article itself is pretty serious, but it's so Mirror Universe that I couldn't resist posting it here. Take a look: Iran: caught in US gunsights By Trevor Royle, Diplomatic Editor America bolsters its military strength in the Gulf. Yet Iran is defiant. Time for diplomacy is running out. So, will this be a battle of wills or armies for presidents Bush and Ahmadinejad? AN AMERICAN carrier battle group led by the USS Dwight D Eisenhower heads towards the Persian Gulf to reinforce the naval assets already in place. A third is due to follow shortly. In Bulgaria, the newly opened strategic US Air Force bases start receiving squadrons of B-2 Stealth bombers. For all that the administration of president George W Bush has denied it is targeting Iran - according to vice-president Dick Cheney yesterday on a visit to Australia, "all options are still on the table" - it is hard to avoid the impression that the US is sending a not-so-subtle message to the regime in Tehran to call a halt to its nuclear programme, or else. As the military build-up continues, the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council plus Germany meet in London tomorrow to make one last-ditch effort to prevent Iran from expanding its uranium enrichment programme in defiance of resolution 1737. The official line is that the US still sees containment as the best way of dealing with the problem but Washington is beginning to tire of dealing with a country which it sees both as a future nuclear risk and a present danger intent on destabilising its neighbour Iraq through support of Shia militias. Even the rhetoric is being cranked up, with US under-secretary of state Nicholas Burns accusing Iran of "effectively thumbing its nose at the international community". Coming on top of a damning six-page report produced by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) claiming that Iran has expanded from research-scale to industrial-scale production of enriched uranium, the pressure is slowly growing on president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. The report, produced by IAEA director Dr Mohamed el-Baradei, also accuses Iran of building a heavy water reactor and production plant in defiance of the UN resolution. In an area of diplomatic activity - US involvement in the Middle East - where perception is often as important as reality, the rumour mill insists that the US is on the brink of taking decisive military action against Iran to forestall its nuclear ambitions and put a stop to its support of Shia militias in Iraq. Even if that story refuses to stick, one other piece of tittle-tattle refuses to go away: if the US does not take action against Iran then it will hand the task over to its ally, Israel, whose airforce has recently been equipped with US bunker-busting ordnance capable of destroying Iran's hidden nuclear facilities. Yesterday it was revealed the Israeli defence forces are negotiating with the US to provide an air corridor over Iraq to enable their war planes to overfly the country in order to attack Iranian nuclear facilities. The Israelis have carried out such an attack before: in 1981 they bombed Iraq's nuclear reactor at Osirak and destroyed the country's fledgling nuclear industry. Full text Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilander72 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 I read this yesterday... In the weekly New Yorker magazine, Hersh said the group would plan raids to be carried out within 24 hours of a presidential order for military action. A Pentagon spokesman said he knew of no such group and denied that the US was planning war with Iran. Source:BBC NEWS Flexing some muscles... Like Iraq did back in 1990 before they invaded Kuwait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Well to be honest the Iranians deserve a slap of miltary muscle from the US and UK, its been common knowledge that Iran has been helping the terrorists in Iraq why do you think the British Royal Marines patrolling the waterways near the boarder. I agree the Iranians can not be allowed to have nukes!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 Yes, keep believing that the threat is only "a few isolated terrorists perverting a religion of peace".........Then go read the Koran, Surah's & Haddiths for yourself. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones2097 Posted March 17, 2007 Share Posted March 17, 2007 yeah add the torra & bible to that list... :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megalith Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 the middle east is an extremely complex issue, to use the normal rhetoric of ' nuke the scum' is neither appropriate nor justified, the quaran is a book of peace that has (like the bible) been twisted to fit with the political beliefs of the governing rulership... put it this way if you feel threatened by the politics of the east then the terrorists have won, just like if the east is threatened by the book of the bible then the west has. When it comes to it the 'men' (for want of a better word for the scum sucking a-holes of the modern world who want prestige through military conquest) who ask for war have less manhood than the gnats of the forest that bite when we are away from home. we live in a world of peace that is threatened by the insame ideologies of a minority hell bent on disrupting any stability we have and yes christians are disrupting this new balance as much as our muslim brethran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amnot Borg Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 the middle east is an extremely complex issue, to use the normal rhetoric of ' nuke the scum' is neither appropriate nor justified, the quaran is a book of peace that has (like the bible) been twisted to fit with the political beliefs of the governing rulership... put it this way if you feel threatened by the politics of the east then the terrorists have won, just like if the east is threatened by the book of the bible then the west has. When it comes to it the 'men' (for want of a better word for the scum sucking a-holes of the modern world who want prestige through military conquest) who ask for war have less manhood than the gnats of the forest that bite when we are away from home. we live in a world of peace that is threatened by the insame ideologies of a minority hell bent on disrupting any stability we have and yes christians are disrupting this new balance as much as our muslim brethran amen, brother. religious texts meant to bring peace always seem to be used for war. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 yeah add the torra & bible to that list... :P Not quite........ The Bible & Torah did not have at their core, conquest of the world by the sword. Like I said, read the Koran & accompaning booklets. ::) [br]Posted on: March 17, 2007, 10:16:39 PM the quaran is a book of peace....... "Look and see! Here is a Jew hiding behind this tree, COME AND KILL HIM!" - the "Holy" Koran ::) Show me something similar in the Torah or Bible....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amnot Borg Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 People in the bible have been known to use the sword on enemies. enemies=other religious followers one case in point: the people who worshipped Ba'al in Israel. II Kings 10:18-28 from the Gideon's King James version of the bible: If any of the men whom I have brought into your hands escape, he that letteth him go, his life shall be for the life of him. Jehu pretended to be a friend and follower and ordered/cajoled the entire group of Ba'al worshippers in Israel to come to a meeting at their temple. He then led them in and had them search for servants of the Lord. When it was just them and they were distracted, he went outside and had 80 soldiers go back in and massacre the entire group inside the temple. He warned them not to miss anybody or they'd take their place. Then they destroyed the temple. Religious tolerance isn't a big thing among older or fundamental sects of Christianity or Judaeism today either. Heck, Deuteronomy Chapter 13 is basically instructions on killing anybody that isn't a follower of the Lord. From stoning them to smiting them with the edge of your sword to burning their cities down, it's all in there. However most modern followers of the three BIG religions do promote harmony and tolerance. It's the crazies that get all the headlines. Peace doesn't sell ad space or newspapers or bring money to the tv networks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Speaking from personal experiences in the middle east I have grown to dis-trust people from this region regardless if there saudis, iraqis or irainians, they are barbarians (for goodness sake who would actually push a women off a 200 foot tower for adultry..oh yeah the saudis), who would be sick enough to use chemical weapons against there own people...oh yeah the Iraqis. The saudis are also guilty of being sexist as well, a poor women cant drive, hell she cant even sit in the front seat unless she is married to the driver, theses people in this area show nowhere near as much tolorance as we do of other religions and cultures, damn you be lucky to find a church in theses countries!! and thats fact. Not to mention all theses states are actually classeed as police states, after spending time in saudi, kuwait, bahrain, afganistan and iraq I can honestly say I never want to see theses places again!! and as for religion, more and more likely used as a excuss for volience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 I'd just like to point out that the Book of Joshua is basically an itemized list of towns totally destroyed (with all men, woman, and children slaughtered without mercy) because God ordered them dead. Yeah, that's peaceful. ... something about 'destroy them all. Don't make treaties with them and don't show mercy' was mentioned repeatedly. ;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones2097 Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 what i think is... as soon as a religion, claims it is the ONLY way to salvation, is the root of all religious intolerance.... then these funky dude claim its ok to kill X,Y, & Z cus they are a bunch of A,B, Cs... at the end of the day these text were written ages ago, it what the ppl are going though today, decides what they do tomorrow..... i.e...... middle America, the local priest orders his parish to kill all the jews. Now any normal person would stop and think, hang on why should i commit murder and kill these ppl ? But now the situation is this, the jews have killed most of your family and friends, what the priest say just verifies the situation and gives the go ahead..... basically, terrorist aren't terrorist because they're religion say so, but are governed by there situation.. no body whats to blow them selves up... but if you have nothing left to live for, you end up thinking 'what the hey might as well take some of them down with me...' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amnot Borg Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 *this is just my meanderings on the subject and related things, read it or not* ;) Would humanitarian aid packages and job offers help prevent hopelessness in warring zones around the world? Maybe, but it's been done and its effect is limited. Regime leaders steal supplies and people still get nothing. The people have to reach out to each other, understand one another, if they really want things to get better. How do we do this? Freedom/respect is one way. Better communication is another. Knowledge is probably best. Tolerance for other faiths might be the very best. Cultures that are not offering/willing to give civil rights to all citizens but are accepted as modern nations because of useful trade items *oil, natural gas, radioactive materials, new technology* are, IMO, not the only reason things are so bad in the poorer areas of the planet. Big business from the morally corrupt end of capitalism *can you say Halliburton* only needs the leaders of such areas to make gobs of cash. The workers and those not even necessary for the trading get practically nil from profits. Politicians seem to be getting more into company mindsets these days than human mindsets. The Saudi royal family is wealthy enough from decades of collecting cash to feed, clothe and educate every single citizen there and to help out in other middle eastern nation-states but culturally, they are still nearly one hundred years behind the western world. They are still a tribal people with what is at its heart, a feudal culture controlled by nobles and religious leaders. Pretty much every middle eastern nation is the same to some extent. Only a few attempt to be modern and socially advanced. One is Israel. It's not perfect either. Bigots and trouble makers don't have a common religion or home. There are some mostly muslim nations that try to help citizens live together. After the fall of the Ottoman Empire to the British and the rise of modern technology and social change, the middle east was cut off from progress. Until oil reserves were needed in WW2, they were mostly left alone. The Allies made deals with them to control the oil, gain access to territory for shipping, and keep the Nazis and Axis from getting their hands on it. Suddenly, a tribal people had money, lots of it. AND they had new allies with modern technology and weapons. They also had a growing modern age Jewish enemy in Israel to growl at. Religous leaders had/still have long memories. The lack of Palestine getting built back then is only one more log on the flames. U.S. and European business interests just kept adding more logs. Is it a big surprise that tensions have heated up? Dark Ages Europe was NOT any better at letting common people have a say in running their own lives. The various nobles and church leaders kept things under control by fear and persecution. It's easy to control people by doctrine if they have nothing else. Modern America has areas where the woman is still taught she is inferior to the male because the bible says so. Because a GOD says so. Many religious conservatives seem to think a woman doesn't really own her own body, at least when she's pregnant *doesn't matter how she became pregnant- rape or fun*. It is not right to make someone suffering from trauma of a vicious CRIME to further complicate their lives with a new tender life. Recently, a young woman was raped and then held in jail after reporting it for a previous crime of hers where she was then denied birth control by a jail worker. That is insane. It was a female jail worker. No sympathy at all. Religous dogma pushed emotion out the window. Is it moral to love something you have faith in more than someone you can touch and see? Is it ethical? DO morals and ethics matter when people are suffering? Or do you just try to ease the pain? After the mess the coalition has made in Iraq *the reasons do matter but the people are hurting right now, why can be argued later*, what responsibility do we really have there? Should we offer aid? Help build the economy? Fight the insurgents? Try to create a communication bridge between the warring culture/religious factions? Or sit it out and see what happens after the civil war that is building up there? Then, deal with it? Or ignore it? Why aren't terrorists being rounded up as criminals instead of as insurgent warriors. A war on terror? It should be a world-wide police action. People were murdered and laws were broken so a war machine rolls in on bad info and destroys a nation? Poor impotent U.N. I don't know. I'm busy trying to take care of myself and my mom. Money is low. She's getting older. I'm getting older. My anxiety kicks in when I really don't want it. I'm spending more time as a caregiver than a PC repairman. My self esteem jumps up and down depending on events of the day. Why should I care what happens around the world? ...because, it's my world too. I'm tired of people trying to control others. We need to be more than hurtful, angry animals. We need to be looking into the future with open arms and warm hearts. Of course, when necessary, we need to shoot the wild dogs in our pack. Never give up your teeth and claws. Just learn when to use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones2097 Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 100 years behind - eh? ??? cuz a hand full of ppl control the majority ??? sounds familiar ? {like the US split into many states, basic tribes, with govs (elders).. that do business with each other???} good post though i agree with most of it....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amnot Borg Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 100 years? Best guess. Different places, varied social settings. Caste systems were still in effect. Social standings mattered. 100 years ago, the U.S. was still recovering from after effects of Civil War, southern Reconstruction, new Immigration from Europe, settlement of the western states/territories, politics and big business were hand in hand back then too. Labor unions were just starting to gain ground against owners that thought workers were slaves and riffraff. Children were still working in coal mines for shifts of up to 16 hours or more. Religious conservatives in the north and south were demanding more segregation. The government was trying to help the big shots and screw the little guy. We weren't so much tribal as screwed up. lol. It is different today. A little bit in some areas. A lot in others. Changes take time to sink into the culture morass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones2097 Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 haha... i repeat.. apart from child labour.... whats changed... ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amnot Borg Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 civil rights? labor unions? more freedoms for women? we still have more to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones2097 Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 freedom for women.. Bhaa...!! we took a 200 year step back with that one...... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megalith Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 ok here goes a post made of quotes:- Liberation for women' date=' thats what i preach preacher man[/quote'] O mankind! We created you from a single soul' date=' male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, so that you may come to know one another. Truly, the most honored of you in Gods sight is the greatest of you in piety. God is All-Knowing, All-Aware. [49:13'] Whoever kills another one without justifiable cause' date=' surely he is killing all of humanity. And whoever saves the life of another one, surely he saves the lives of all of humanity.[/quote'] Do not say to one who offers you peace' date=' "You are not a believer," seeking the spoils of this life. For God has abundant treasure. You used to be like them, after all, and then God blessed you.[/quote'] Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird by Allah’s leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah’s leave. And I announce to you what you eat and what you store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is a portent for you if you are to be believers. And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me. Lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path. (Qur’an 3: 49-51). In the day when Allah gathers together the messengers and says: What was your response (from mankind)? they say: We have no knowledge. Lo! Thou, only Thou art the Knower of Things Hidden. When Allah says: O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour unto you and unto your mother; how I strengthened you with the holy Spirit, so that you spoke unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I taught you the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and how you did shape of clay as it were the likeness of a bird by My permission, and did blow upon it and it was a bird by My permission, and you did heal him who was born blind and the leper by My permission . . . (Qur’an 5:109-110) And if you punish (your enemy' date=' O you believers in the Oneness of Allâh), then punish them with the like of that with which you were afflicted. But if you endure patiently, verily, it is better for As-Sâbirin (the patient ones, etc.).[/quote'] “Believers' date=' Jews, Sabaeans or Christians - whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does what is right - shall have nothing to fear or regretâ€Â[/quote'] “And mankind is naught but a single nation†anyway thats enough quotes for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetsuoShima Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Now those quotes send a very dualistic messages. I can just as easily use them to wage war, as to make peace... Kind of like an oracle revelation, put it in such words that all is possible and you're allways right.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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