elbubsio

Even if the US (or any other country for that matter) provided 100% of the UNs budget etc, it doesn't give them the right to commit immoral and illegal war crimes. Invading another country and murdering thousands of innocent people for a political agenda is wrong - pure and simple. As for the US leaving the UN, I think personally that would be a huge mistake politically. It would alienate them even more in the world and heighten their image as a 'rogue' country who's willing to arrogantly do ANYTHING it likes in the belief that no-one will do anything about it. Of course, i'm sure that wouldn't bother the US administration, after all what do us other little countries matter against the mighty US :rolleyes:

Hmmm, perhaps I should rephrase that bit - The Americans were largely responsible for creating the illusion that the USSR was evil because it was seen as communist with US politicians like Rumsfeld and Cheney spreading untrue rumours that the USSR had terrible weapons and must be stopped. In reality the USSR was crumbling from within and indeed collapsed only a couple of decades later.

While Roddenberry's future contains elements of communism, it hardly follows it's doctrine to the letter. Communism supports a classless society with the means of production controlled by the workers. Not the terrible regime you seem to think it is. It has to a large extent been given a bad name by the Western world in the form of the USSR, which was never in fact communist but state capitalist. The illusion of the USSR's communism was spread mostly by America who needed a new enemy to 'protect' it's people from since the old dreams of a bright future with flying cars and robots doing all the work wasn't really washing with the public any longer. Whilst I find the odd thing in trek or the odd decision made by one of it's captains to be wrong or even perhaps immoral, I know which society I'd rather live in. ;)

Wow, aren't we trek fans supposed to be the ones who dream of a peaceful, equal future for all. Not 'dropping nukes' and 'shooting people on the spot'. The reason most peace talks etc fail is because violent action has usually been going on for that long that neither side is willing to make the first necessary step, it's far easier just to bomb a problem out of existance. Sad, really. :( It's all down to politics and the evil people who run our countries in my opinion. Give the common man an education and an opinion and 9 times out of 10 he/she'll say 'can't we all just get along'. But the powers that be keep the masses relatively uneducated and ignorant of world facts and feed them nothing but propaganda. It's a pretty logical conclusion that indoctrinated, uneducated people will believe whatever is told to them by a corrupt, power hungry regime. Take a step back for a second and think about the reasons behind many middle eastern countries hatred of the west. After all, for decades we've exploited those people and their resources, commited atrocities of our own (which FAR outweigh the tragic and unnecessary events of 9/11) and gotten involved in internal politics which have little or nothing to do with us. How would we feel if a foriegn power was sticking it's nose into our business how and when it liked with little or nothing we could do about it. Think about it. In the words of John Lennon - Give peace a chance :) Bubba

So the UN are an inferior government to the US because they're unwilling to attack a country on flimsy evidence which later and quite obviously turns out to be wrong (got any pictures of those mobile bomb making centres Colin, No, just some nice drawings). But wait - luckily that country happens to have a massive oil reserve that we can plunder in exchange for helping to rebuild a country we helped to destroy. Result!! It doesn't really matter if a few thousand innocent civilians and allied soldiers die in the process of 'liberating' the country - several of them killed in friendly fire incidents, after all we're going to give them a nice new government. Oh did we mention we'll be picking most of it. The USA, like most major world powers have at one time or another, is having it's time at imperialism and has been for several years. It invented the cold war to suit a political agenda and is doing so again with terrrorism (cue ominous thunderclap). It invades anywhere it likes for any reason it chooses. It tells the world how dangerous these terrorists are when America in fact helped train and arm half of them. It gives you news reports that tell you how great everythings going, but virtually no footage of the hundreds of dead US soldiers being unloaded from planes. It uses a media almost totally controlled by the government to tell it's citizens exactly what it wants them to hear. It has a power mad chimp of a president who's been caught on camera saying he'd love America to be a dictatorship, as long as he's the dictator. It's a country that will send thousands of young men and women into a misguided war for 'freedom', yet when someone asserts their freedom by burning the flag they'll likely get beaten or even killed. Brainwashed, naaaah. America is by it's own criteria for terrorists the biggest terrorist country currently on the planet. It abuses the rights of it's prisoners, ignores the constitution when it suits and allows rights trampling laws like the patriot act to be put into force. All very Orwellian. This is of course not to say that ALL Americans are corrupt or imperialistic, sadly just the ones in power. Bubba War never determines who's right, only who's left - Bertrand Russell All wars are civil wars, because all men are brothers - Francois Fenelon A pre-emptive war in 'defense' of freedom would surely destroy freedom, because one simply cannot engage in barbarous action without becoming a barbarian, because one cannot defend human values by calculated and unprovoked violence without doing mortal damage to the values one is trying to defend.  J. William Fulbright I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity.  Dwight David Eisenhower In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.  Jose Narosky