Bob43434 Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Anyone who has listned to the Big Finish plays (especially Zagreus) and read the BBC Novels would know that the 8th doctor plays follow a different timeline to the novels. Now, you know that the first few books (the ones with Sam) fit into both continuity's but after that, they go into seperate time lines. Now both are official and both a considered cannon. The novels since the are published/produced by the BBC and the play because the BBC commished Big Finish to make them and the first few 8th doctor plays are being played on BBC 7 digital radio. So which time line does the new series follow on from? I think it is the Big Finish series as they are still going and the can regenrate the doctor anytime, plus Gallifrey hasn't been destroyed yet. In the 8th doctor novels, Gallifrey was destroyed in a time war, but it was with Faction Paradox. Not the Daleks. Now in the last continuing 8th Doctor novel (HIs last book as the current Doctor, now he is a past doctor and his books are now stand alone), The Gallifrey Chronicles it is alluded that the Doctor will either try to or succed in restoring Gallifrey. Also, that the Timelord trapped on Earth (can't think of his name) looked into the Doctor's future and saw three 9th incarnations. However, even if the Docotor restores Gallifrey, it won't be Gallifrey. So I conclude that the new series must continue on from the big finish plays. If it follows the novels, then Gallifrey must have been destroyed in the time war against faction parradox, not the Daleks. Considering that Russel T. Davis has said that everything before the new series is considered cannon (that is all the books from the New adventures as well as the big finish cd's) then he could just change faction parradox into the daleks and shrugg of the continuity error. What does everyone else think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob43434 Posted October 14, 2005 Author Share Posted October 14, 2005 Oh, one more piece of evidence. IN the novels, the 8th doctor has lost his memory (won't give away why for people who haven't read them yet). In the cd's, he still has it. In the new series, he still has it. He knows he destroyed Gallifrey. But the novel 8th Doctor didn't recall it or even why. He finds out later, but he doesn't remember it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potato Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 It is still possible for the books to reconnect to the series, and they probably will someday. The Doctor manages to restore Gallifrey and the Time Lords thus leading into the Dalek Time War as they have gotten used to the Time Lords being gone and are peeved about their return. Plus the nove the Infinity Doctors appears to be about the Eighth Doctor living on Gallifrey and some of the Time Lords in that book have died long ago in the series. So it could be that he revives every Time Lord, not just the onees destroyed when Gallifrey was erased. (The Magister in this book appears to be the Master before he embraced the darkness.) The line about 3 Ninth Doctors is meant to be a nod to the Richard E. Grant web cast and (possibly) the Curse of Fatal Death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob43434 Posted October 15, 2005 Author Share Posted October 15, 2005 That's a good point. Now, if what you say happens, then the Doctor must also regain his memory. Although it is alluded that they were wiped forever. Any one else have a therory on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potato Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 He was offered his memories back once so it is possible that the offer is still good and he could get them back once he gets rid of the information inside his head that replaced them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob43434 Posted October 16, 2005 Author Share Posted October 16, 2005 Another good point. And I suppose the Radio plays could fit in the gap between Vampire sience and the one before it (drawing a blank), like alot of websites speculate. Also, the tv may have better experience, but it doesn't matter. The books and Radio plays are all OFFICAL and a part of the Doctor WHo chronology. The only issue appears with the 8th Doctor as both Big Finish and BBC books have delebiratly tried to seperate the continuity in both, leaving them as seperate time lines. As a result, there is debate as to which timeline the new series follows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potato Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Of course if Gallifrey were to return it might be as a negation of the timeline with a new one being created. The book line being negated from say the first Faction Paradox story onward and being replaced by the Big Finish continuity. Thus both would be official. There are several ways to unify things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob43434 Posted October 17, 2005 Author Share Posted October 17, 2005 I never considered that. So what your saying is that by restorying Gallifrey, then all of the faction parradox line is erased from history and can be replaced with the Bif Finish line. That makes sense. It also can explain the referenc to the 8th doctors first companion Sam, in Minuet in Hell. Which could link it nicely to the new series and means Gallifrey is destined to be destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potato Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 EXACTLY!!!! I love that idea. It would also mean that Romana, in one form or another, is destined to be the final president of the High Council of Time Lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob43434 Posted October 18, 2005 Author Share Posted October 18, 2005 Maybe not. Following your therory. The doctor restore Gallifrey, the faction parradox timeline is erased and replaced by the big finish timeline. The 8th doctor becomes Zargreus, travels to the divergent universe and returns. Meanwhile Rommad has her own problems on Gallifrey. 8th Doctor returns. Some were down the line, the Daleks with their new Emperor (not Daveros, unless Daveros becomes the True Dalek Emperor and all vestiges of Daveros are gone forever), are pissed that the Timelords, they want to become the lords of time. They might evern re-develop their timeships back from the Heartnell days (The Docotor interfereeance in Genesis of the Daleks changed history so they only ever got as far as crude time corridors. But in the Mutant Phase they are using both, so at some point they must reach Time ship level tech). The Daleks and Timelords go to war in the last Time War. Eventually the Doctor is forced to destroy Gallifrey again (ironic. He destroyed Gallifrey to save the universe, restores Gallifrey only to destroy it again for the same reasons). Enter the Ninth Doctor, and at some point he finds out about the Auton invasion so he goes to Earth and meets Rose. That's were the new series picks up. However, there is no gaurentee that Romana will be the last President. She could get replaced anytime between the restoration of Gallifrey and it's second destruction. What I really like about this is that Gallifrey is the reason for time travel. Rassilon anchored the web of time (with Omega's help and the other dude). Thus making travel into the future possible, then set up there timeline. But no matter what, Gallifrey is destined to be destroyed. One thing I'm still cofused about, it's the eye of harmony that is keeping the web of time anchored. So, with Gallifrey destoryed how is time travel possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potato Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 the eye of harmony is achoered against the mass of gallifrey. If the planet itsself isn't blown to bits it would still be fine, as long as rassilon isn't wiped from history it should still exist. The time lords could still be destroyed but the planet itsself could still exist. I believe the Doctor says the fleets burned not the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob43434 Posted October 19, 2005 Author Share Posted October 19, 2005 Ah yes, good point. He did say that. He said his planet burned, in "In End of the World" and in, "Dalek" I belive, he said Ten Thousand ships on fire, or something like that. So Gallifrey could still be there. In that case, isn't it possible that Some Time Lords, or Gallifreyans (remember, Time Lords are the leaders and upper class, not a species) might have survived undergound? And isn't it also possible that Gallifrey could be saved in a later season? I mean in the novels when it was destroyed, the whole area was screwed in both space and in time, thus you couldn't travel back intime to alter events. But if Gallifrey was just scorched,then you should be able to travel back in time and do something. In fact, it was hinted that it was possible in "Fathers Day". Except the Doctor didn't want to. But who knows, new regeneration, new body, new personality, new outlook. Maybe he could get so lonely, being the only one left (that we/he knows of) he might want to restore Gallifrey. That or something disaterous could happen that only the collective powers of the timelords could solve. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petra1989 Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 The money I would put my money on for surviving the destruction would be the Gallifreyens that choose to live in the wilds in a primative state. The Doctor is basing the fact there are no Time Lords, because he cannot feel the telepathic link with them. But how many times has the Master or the Rani been right next to him and the Doctor did not notice? So it is possible the Doctor is wrong about it. Or the link was severed when Gallifrey burned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob43434 Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 Yeah, that's what I think. Galliffrey's continuity was protected via the transduction barriers. Hence one of the reasons the Doctor never traveled into Gallifrey's path. (Aprt from the fact that it was forbidden). But as I was saying about Suzan, she is was on Earth, in the 21st century, post dalek invasion. So she wouldn't been killed along with Gallifrey. So maybe, the Doctor could only have a telepathic link with Time Lords on Gallifrey becasue of the constant continuety, were as Timlords not on Gallifrey would be able to hide there presensee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roach Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 The Doctor is basing the fact there are no Time Lords' date=' because he cannot feel the telepathic link with them. But how many times has the Master or the Rani been right next to him and the Doctor did not notice?[/quote'] However, when he encountered the Master and the Rani, he wasn't searching for them. I'd imagine that it is easier to hide / not be noticed if no one is looking for you than if someone is actively searching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potato Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Susan left Earth in the Master's TARDIS after leaving him terribly injured. See the Legacy of the Daleks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petra1989 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 However, when he encountered the Master and the Rani, he wasn't searching for them. I'd imagine that it is easier to hide / not be noticed if no one is looking for you than if someone is actively searching. In the TV movie. The Doctor is looking for the Master. Stands right in front of him, but doesn't seem to pick up on the fact the Master is there. It is only a little while does he realize it. That one could be atributed to the recent regeneration. I think the Doctor is wrong about being no survivors and he can't or won't look for them. Perhaps the Doctor fears retribution from surviving Time Lords? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob43434 Posted October 22, 2005 Author Share Posted October 22, 2005 Been awhile since I read that book, but didn't she return to Earth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potato Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Not unless she's turned up in another book since than that I missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmvonr Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 It is still possible for the books to reconnect to the series, and they probably will someday. . . . Plus the novel the Infinity Doctors appears to be about the Eighth Doctor living on Gallifrey and some of the Time Lords in that book have died long ago in the series. So it could be that he revives every Time Lord, not just the onees destroyed when Gallifrey was erased. (The Magister in this book appears to be the Master before he embraced the darkness.) "The Infinity Doctors" was written years ago - long before RTD or the BBC thought to revive Doctor Who. . .also, Lance Parkin wrote it as a "what if" type of book that does not fit into any of the continuity--it could be any of the Doctors--he is never specific about anything on purpose. In fact--I think he wrote it just to confound the continuity purists! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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