GhostShadow Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 It seems that this topic has gotten a lot heavier since I last read. :mad: People being killed because of their faith as well as those killing to protect theirs. :mad: Some members need to remember that their present belief system has been filtered down through millions of other people, a bit like Chinese Whispers. As with Chinese Whispers the result is not the same as what was originally said. With regard to killing someone who tries to get you to change your religion, well......hmmm......... If I remember right Jesus Christ (apparently) did not believe in killing those that did not worship his Father, instead he preached about forgiveness and was willing to die for his faith(NOT KILL). It seems to me that to truly believe you have to be willing to die for your faith, no matter what. The moment you break your own religious doctrines to satisfy your own belief, then you prove that you do not fully have faith. After all, a lot of faiths preach that the afterlife is a better place, so shouldn`t followers be happy to die? To bring the death of others into the religious question, means that you are acting GOD not worshipping them. None of us has that right, no matter who you are. We do have a `state` religion in the UK, but it isn`t enforced on us in any way, whereas other countries make their population follow its ideals. Also, why does the UK have it`s own. Because Henry VIII wanted to get divorced, and the Pope wouldn`t let him!!!! A country ruler deciding to run the country their way, heedless of the masses, I`ve heard of that somewhere else!!!!! To conclude, religion is still causing more harm than good, all you have to do is read this topic. Nuff said. :p PS. Please don`t fall out over this people. ;) Thanks you for esablishing what I already knew, I AM NOT JESUS! And I am not talking about killing ppl who try to get me to change my religion, i am talking about killing ppl who try to FORCE me to change my religion. I would happly die for God, and my Country, and I would kill, if any one tried to take EITHER OF THOES AWAY! so dont paint me out to be like some blood thirsty Christian. I just want to be able to pray in peace and be able to live a normal life the way "I" want to. these ppl are talking about changing my religion, inevitably changing how I live.... That is communism! And the united States was founded on the Christian Religion, so taking away Chrsitianty would hurt America, and I dont tolerate that either. say what you want, do what you want, but i am saying that if a person or a people tried to take my religion away and force a new one on me... I would fight and die to keep that Alive. I know that might be hard for some Athiest here to comprehend, but i dont need you understand, i need you to leave my religion alone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mateya Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 To conclude, religion is still causing more harm than good, all you have to do is read this topic. Nuff said. :p I think you should get more info on religions before make such assuptions Carlvsi. See belief/faith and human(s) works more like this analogy (put in a question): if the driver is bad does that mean that the car hes driving is bad also? We have/had/will mass atheist killers also in this wolrd (look at stalin, hitler..) and nobody is saying atheism is doing more harm than good. Its peoples understanding of things which is doing harm. And that is another matter entirely; that means its individualy based and generalization is not the correct response in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlvsi Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 To GhostShadow I don`t know you from Adam or Eve, I do not know about your life apart from what you post. These lead me to a few conclusions. You are young. You have been `conditioned` to believe certain things. You will learn more as you age. The USA was founded on Church OF ENGLAND. The first 6 or 7 (I think) presidents were English born. I don`t think that you are a blood thirsty christian, but I do believe that you choose which parts of your religious doctrine you believe. How many commandments are you breaking in your life? Just by downloading here, stealing is one. ;) You say you want to be left to live a "normal" life, this means that you think that all no-believers are abnormal. I do respect you, as I respect all and everyting they believe, even if I disagree or even despise what they do. As I have mentioned before we need `evil` to oppose `good`. I am actually Agnostic not Athiest And to note, the topic is on religion as a whole not lets get rid of USA Moralistic Christianity. I will leave you to pray for my soul. ;) To Mateya I am not making assumptions, I know a lot more about religion than I show, I mean religion, not just Christianity, Buddism, Hindi, Taoism etc. Religion as a whole going back to our earliest beliefs. I agree with your analogy it is the bearer, not the source. I am talking about a global/historical perspective. In general religion is/has caused more harm than good. I don`t mean religious people, as you have said mass murderers of history were killing because they didn`t believe. This still meant religion was the cause, not the people believing. As for my quote, isn`t this post on religion causing some bad vibes, thereby more harm than good. (Not from me, I have love for everyone) ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostShadow Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 To GhostShadow I don`t know you from Adam or Eve, I do not know about your life apart from what you post. These lead me to a few conclusions. You are young. You have been `conditioned` to believe certain things. You will learn more as you age. The USA was founded on Church OF ENGLAND. The first 6 or 7 (I think) presidents were English born. I don`t think that you are a blood thirsty christian, but I do believe that you choose which parts of your religious doctrine you believe. How many commandments are you breaking in your life? Just by downloading here, stealing is one. ;) You say you want to be left to live a "normal" life, this means that you think that all no-believers are abnormal. I do respect you, as I respect all and everyting they believe, even if I disagree or even despise what they do. As I have mentioned before we need `evil` to oppose `good`. I am actually Agnostic not Athiest And to note, the topic is on religion as a whole not lets get rid of USA Moralistic Christianity. I will leave you to pray for my soul. ;) To Mateya I am not making assumptions, I know a lot more about religion than I show, I mean religion, not just Christianity, Buddism, Hindi, Taoism etc. Religion as a whole going back to our earliest beliefs. I agree with your analogy it is the bearer, not the source. I am talking about a global/historical perspective. In general religion is/has caused more harm than good. I don`t mean religious people, as you have said mass murderers of history were killing because they didn`t believe. This still meant religion was the cause, not the people believing. As for my quote, isn`t this post on religion causing some bad vibes, thereby more harm than good. (Not from me, I have love for everyone) ;) ok first of all dont even try to psyco anilize me, b/c you are way off. I am 16 years old. Denver Colorado, USA (greatest country in the world). I am politiacly active in supporting the Republican party, I have a healthy social life, i have a healthy religious life, i have a healthy addicition to ST ( actualy, i dont think its all that to healthy :)). Ok, now that is out of the way since i guess ppl are getting the wronge image about me. and i said that no one is abnormal, stop assuming. as i said, i want to live the life "I" want to, i want to pry to "my" god and i want to do it with out any one trying to stop me. And If some one tried to stop me, would ask them to stop. If they forced the issue and tried to physicaly force me to stop, i would hit them in the head with a lead pipe. That is it. that is what I have to say, "if you try to stop me physicaly, i will make you hurt" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mateya Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 This still meant religion was the cause' date=' not the people believing.[/quote'] Not the cause, the means (to power). As for my quote, isn`t this post on religion causing some bad vibes, thereby more harm than good. (Not from me, I have love for everyone) ;) Bad vibes dont "emanate" from the topic but from the people, dont you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synexo Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 This still meant religion was the cause' date=' not the people believing.[/quote'] Not the cause, the means (to power). As for my quote, isn`t this post on religion causing some bad vibes, thereby more harm than good. (Not from me, I have love for everyone) ;) Bad vibes dont "emanate" from the topic but from the people, dont you agree? I totally agree, it's just so maddening to have to deal with these religeous zealots on here like GhostShadow. Just because the topic suggests that we explore the issue of whether or not religeon still has a place in society, he's all hopped up and ready to go grab his gun and shoot him some commie pinko liberals. Typical immature 16 year old brainwashed American kid. It is the likes of him that will make the glorious appearance of the Maitreya a much more difficult time then it need be. The comfort is in knowing that all will be well soon, no matter the pains. MAITREYA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synexo Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 Who is Maitreya? He has been expected for generations by all of the major religions. Christians know him as the Christ, and expect his imminent return. Jews await him as the Messiah; Hindus look for the coming of Krishna; Buddhists expect him as Maitreya Buddha; and Muslims anticipate the Imam Mahdi or Messiah. Maitreya. Although the names are different, many believe that they all refer to the same individual: the World Teacher, whose personal name is Maitreya (pronounced my-tray-ah). Preferring to be known simply as the Teacher, Maitreya has not come as a religious leader, or to found a new religion, but as a teacher and guide for people of every religion and those of no religion. At this time of great political, economic and social crisis Maitreya will inspire humanity to see itself as one family, and create a civilization based on sharing, economic and social justice, and global cooperation. He will launch a call to action to save the millions of people who starve to death every year in a world of plenty. Among Maitreya's recommendations will be a shift in social priorities so that adequate food, housing, clothing, education, and medical care become universal rights. Under Maitreya's inspiration, humanity itself will make the required changes and create a saner and more just world for all. More about Maitreya: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synexo Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megalith Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 'without large organised religions people would simply revert to paganism' so what exactly is wrong with paganism? As i see it, a religion that sees a unique spirit in any living entity and ascripes this spirit to one of godliness is not a bad thing, the tree has a 'tree spirit' the dog a 'dog spirit' and of course 'the spirit of man' I, as a pagan would not wish to impose my beliefs on anybody else, and would not see the worshipping of another god to the ones i believe in to be wrong and i would not want to kill because of it. To simply imply that if you dont believe in my belief then the alternative is paganism is, if i'm honest, offensive to my personal beliefs and again as one who believes that every living thing has a unique energy/soul/spirit i am glad i will not be around to witness the chief's 'brave new world' What i do hope for however, is that some monotheistic narrow minded simpleton doesnt decide to destroy my world, but i realise my hopes are probably in vain. The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma. –Abraham Lincoln i found god in myself and i loved her i loved her fiercely. –Ntozake Shange You’re basically killing each other to see who’s got the better imaginary friend. –Yasir Arafat (On going to war over religion) Think not that I am come to send peace on earth; I came not to send peace, but a sword. –Jesus, Matthew 10:34 [another wonderful sentiment!] Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer. –proverb There seems to be a terrible misunderstanding on the part of a great many people to the effect that when you cease to believe you may cease to behave. –Louis Kronenberger[/Quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDad Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 This still meant religion was the cause' date=' not the people believing.[/quote'] Not the cause, the means (to power). As for my quote, isn`t this post on religion causing some bad vibes, thereby more harm than good. (Not from me, I have love for everyone) ;) Bad vibes dont "emanate" from the topic but from the people, dont you agree? I totally agree, it's just so maddening to have to deal with these religeous zealots on here like GhostShadow. Just because the topic suggests that we explore the issue of whether or not religeon still has a place in society, he's all hopped up and ready to go grab his gun and shoot him some commie pinko liberals. Typical immature 16 year old brainwashed American kid. It is the likes of him that will make the glorious appearance of the Maitreya a much more difficult time then it need be. The comfort is in knowing that all will be well soon, no matter the pains. MAITREYA This is a rather harsh assessment from someone who advocates forcing a religion on everyone and executing those who refuse to bow down to your 'god'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenhank Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 Sorry, I guess I'm coming into this Holy War a bit late, but: b/c if you try and stop me from believing in Jesus Christ and My god, I will kill you ... ... ...Am I the only one laughing at the inherent contradiction in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synexo Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 This still meant religion was the cause' date=' not the people believing.[/quote'] Not the cause, the means (to power). As for my quote, isn`t this post on religion causing some bad vibes, thereby more harm than good. (Not from me, I have love for everyone) ;) Bad vibes dont "emanate" from the topic but from the people, dont you agree? I totally agree, it's just so maddening to have to deal with these religeous zealots on here like GhostShadow. Just because the topic suggests that we explore the issue of whether or not religeon still has a place in society, he's all hopped up and ready to go grab his gun and shoot him some commie pinko liberals. Typical immature 16 year old brainwashed American kid. It is the likes of him that will make the glorious appearance of the Maitreya a much more difficult time then it need be. The comfort is in knowing that all will be well soon, no matter the pains. MAITREYA This is a rather harsh assessment from someone who advocates forcing a religion on everyone and executing those who refuse to bow down to your 'god'. That is a complete misunderstanding. This person GhostShadow is saying that he is intollerant and unwilling to hold any but his own beliefs. The Maitreya comes as the incarnation of all the world's religeous beliefs, and all that is asked is that all people are tollerant and live in peace. To be tollerant is not to stubbornly hold to ones narrowminded perception of God, but to accept the all inclusive teachings of the Maitreya. The Maitreya will teach that all men regardless of race or nation should live together in peace. A small mark will be made upon the hand or the forehead of the followers of the Maitreya so that the followers of the teacher will know who they can trust to live together in peace. Hopefully all mankind will want to live together in peace, but when you hear the attitudes of fundamentalists talking about killing for their 'jesus' it has to make you think that those few people may have to be culled to prevent from infecting the whole of humankind. Why should all men suffer for the stubborness of just a few? Why should we be eternally damned to war with one another when we can instead follow the teachings of the Maitreya? It is far wiser to allow history to culminate in this one final solution than it is to allow seething religeous hate to burn for all eternity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnifex Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 AAAAAARRRRGGGGG!!!!!!!! Religion should be outlawed, it is ultimately self defeating as a way to unite humanty. I am an ATHIEST and I have nothing but the utmost scourn for people who decide to pluck any unfounded, unprovable, contrary, exclusonary and illogical concept out of thin air and invest their entire being in the insistance that they have the right idea and everyone else is suffering from delusion. NO... I DO NOT respect your right to conceit and dangerous narrowmindedness.I can and do CATEGORICALLY state that you are wrong, your parents and friends are wrong and your preacher is wrong!!!. WHY?... for a simple reason... DO YOU HONESTLY THINK that if (and that's a bloody big if..) there was really an all knowing and all capabable being keeping an eye 'over his flock' that you, a mere, small minded, inferior and absolutely limited in both mental capacity and understanding, human being (and this is all of us, not just the religious), would even come anywhere near understanding the motives, wants and morals of a such a being that would have as much in common with us as we would an ant. And if you think that you do have the ability to understand the motives of such a being, that is conceit of the highest order. Your religion, regardless of which one it actually is, is exclusionary and eliteist... oh, you may be all sweetness and light to others of your denomination, but to those who do not believe as you do, you are ultimately derisory and scournful, you hold your belief above all others, in ABSOLUTE contradiction to your 'holy word' which states we are all the same and should be treated as such, (except for the word of Islam, and THAT is a completely different dangerous kettle of fish). Religion is nothing but an outdated and unnecessary form of population control, and to devoutly believe these days is to show your ignorance and lack of ability to think for yourselves. Religion teaches you form distinctions and to separate the human race... YOU WILL NOT go to paradise if you believe, or purgatory if you do not.... Heaven and hell are to be found NOW, here on earth and it is only when EVERYONE realises that, will anything get better on earth. AND AS FOR THIS....... Thats all well and good you see' date=' but how are you going to do it? b/c if you try and stop me from believing in Jesus Christ and My god, I will kill you, so dont try.[/quote'] Ghostshadow, you are a clown... don't you see that this is the very type of thinking that has no place in the world of today, it is zelotous and downright insane... for you to profess a willingness to take anothers life, in DIRECT opposition to what your god teaches, is the very justification of why religion should be wiped out and for people to take control and repsonsiblity for their own lives, and to no longer foist that responsibility on to some etherial, random being. If your lives are so small and lacking that you have no choice but to believe in some immaterial entity for which there as absolutely no proof of their existance (even anything at all that would allow some doubt as to the possibility of such aa being), who so far has done nothing for man except be the root of such bloodshed and violence since the beginning of time....THEN GET A BETTER LIFE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 To be fair, it's quite hilarious. Religions NEVER practice what they preach... well, mainly Christianity and Islam are worst for that but that could just be from their strength of numbers. Both protest to be peaceful and yet, both have offered us what? Inquisition, Crusade, Jihad, 9/11, bombing abortion clinics and so on. Religions with peace on their lips and a knife in their hands. The inherent problem with religion is that one is required to place blind faith in something, generally said a long time ago by people with entirely different value systems and assume that this is the absolute truth. As a student of medieval history I can tell you that things have improved but one need only look at (I should really just write stuff down at a website and link it, I repeat myself so often) medieval Spain to see how quickly moderates can be overpowered by fundamentalists to the detriment of... well, EVERYONE. And for what it's worth - I find GhostShadow's notions of killing for his faith rather distateful... whatever happened to turning the other cheek? Or letting he who is without sin...? I feel that if you study the history of religion, what you're really studying is the history of human suffering. The intolerance of one culture against another. Ultimately this is why the rise of secular culture has been an advancement of human society. But in the interests of fairness, synexo - you're speaking as if you a were a child born with no knowledge of this world. While I'm an advocate of mass cullings of the populus, you're just being naive. Wars have been fought over less than what you're saying. If logic or rationality came into the question of faith - we wouldn't be having this conversation. The greatest mistake in trying to "correct" religion is trying to establish yourself as a leader. Guru Nanaka wanted to reconcile the differences of Islam and Hinduism. What did he get for his troubles? A united faith? No. A WHOLE NEW ONE. Ultimately, faith is not something that can be legislated against and unless you're ready to kill a few billion people (that would in itself solve a myriad of problems) it's something that one has to hope humanity can outgrow. For me, belief in some all knowing, all caring, all powerful God is akin to saying. "We need someone to take the blame, hold our hand, make us feel special and justify things I do." I believe in higher powers... but guess what, if they're all knowing, all seeing etc. I'd guess they'd be pissed that you'd say "I know the will of X and I am acting accordingly." I mean, analogy. Imagine you manage a Walmart/Tesco/Generic retail outlet. You go on holiday for a week, leaving vague instructions. You come back and find that everyone is basically doing what they want, finding they're doing it "in your name" having interpreted the instructions you left as they pleased. When we are willing to accept that the improvement of our race is more important than the divine, we will have made a quantum leap but you know me, captain pessimist thinks that this won't happen for a while... I wish I was immortal so I could live a thousand years and see faith do NOTHING though. That would amuse me. In conclusion - religion is a symptom of the disease that is humanity. Kill who you like - that won't change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synexo Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 ...unless you're ready to kill a few billion people (that would in itself solve a myriad of problems) it's something that one has to hope humanity can outgrow. Tenebrae! Now you see what I am saying, it is that exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbosdell Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 oh yeah. b/c segration TOTALY worked in the States and in the rest of the world... your backward superstition religion is already doomed to fail if tha tis your attitude towards it. Oh no, you misunderstand. I did not mean segregation, I meant euthanasia. You are worse than hitler. A) No one would go for this -- you cant impose religion or lack of on us. B) No one would commit suicide as its a sin and they wouldnt. They would hide like the Jews in WWII or just start a war against you until they killed you or have a resistance or something. C) You are just evil. You can be an atheist and hate god all you want but you dont have the right to impose your 'beliefs' on others. Thank god that you will never be in a position to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mateya Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 You have all gone insane by this topic. Sheesh! Chill out people. And you are watching star trek?! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnifex Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 You are worse than hitler. A) No one would go for this -- you cant impose religion or lack of on us. B) No one would commit suicide as its a sin and they wouldnt. They would hide like the Jews in WWII or just start a war against you until they killed you or have a resistance or something. C) You are just evil. You can be an atheist and hate god all you want but you dont have the right to impose your 'beliefs' on others. Thank god that you will never be in a position to do so. Good Grief!!!! This is screamingly insecure in it's belief, it just sound as if you are too scared to face the probability that you are alone... Your post is nothing more than a knee jerk reaction to someone who doesn't have the blind faith in supernatural entities that you have. His views may not be everyones cup of tea (although I think that he was being sardonic, rather that serious..) however at least they are his views and not some tired, boring rheteric that has been spouted by everyone without an original thought in his head since the beginning of time. Also I take umbrage to you compareing Hitler (one seriously bad dude) with somthing a incnosequetial as some one who posts semi serious comments on a public forum.. THEY MOST CERTAINLY DO NOT FALL INTO THE SAME CATEGORY!!! Also please keep you smallminded definition of 'EVIL' to yourself until you are mature enough to understand what EVIL actually is.. One last thing... Atheism is the lack of belief in..., so how can someone hate something that they do not believe exists in the first place... You have a sadly lacking and narrow view of the world in which you live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synexo Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 You can be an atheist and hate god all you want but you dont have the right to impose your 'beliefs' on others. Thank god that you will never be in a position to do so. I will not be in a position to do so, but the UN armed forces will be, and they will march with the wind of The Maitreya, to protect people like me from murderous zealots like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenhank Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 You can be an atheist and hate god all you want Atheists don’t hate god, cbosdell. That would be like hating the king of the Martians. You can’t hate someone who doesn’t exist. What a lot of us hate (and really, it’s not so much “hateâ€ÂÂ, as “are pissed off aboutâ€ÂÂ) is the delusion that there could be some powerful being controlling things somehow. It’s like if a bunch of people believed in Santa Claus, despite the fact that nobody ever gets presents for Christmas. Not only that, but those people then attribute every present they get from a friend or loved one to Santa. Not only that, but they say everybody who doesn’t get presents from loved ones isn’t getting them because Santa is mad at them. Not only that, but they all insist that the night before Christmas poem is actual history, which we should teach to our children as fact. Not only that, but the government should not allow people to tell children that presents come from other people, and in fact we should instruct them in school that Santa brings all the presents. Of course, some “reasonable†Santa believers say that there are two sides to the issue, and either “theory†– Santa-ism and human-gift-ism – could be valid. Not only that, but… …I really hope it’s quite clear where I am going with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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