Symok Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Where do they come from? It's been bugging me ever since the first time I saw the ep where they find the Tok`Ra queen. Here on earth most (all?) insectoid species that have a "queen" have a way to get a new one when the old one dies (how else could the hive continue) So the question is, why didn't a new queen develop after Ageria was lost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mav Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Maybe they need to specially bred? The symbiotes themselves are unisex, so there are no males or females other than the "Queen"'s. Maybe theres some special process the Goa'uld use to birth a symbiote into a Queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mateya Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Maybe they need to specially bred? The symbiotes themselves are unisex' date=' so there are no males or females other than the "Queen"'s. [/quote'] now there, if there is a queen (and symbiotes are not fertile) there must be a male to fertilize her at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mav Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 True but the Tokra have said at least once that the symbiotes are basically genderless. When you think about it, something doesn't nesscarily need to be female to breed. Plenty of animals are asexual, such as sea horses. Now based on that, when I say they need to be "bred" I mean something like, a Goa'uld whos already taken a host and wants to create a queen, may somehow inject a larvae symbiote with a chemical or enzyme that reacts causing them to grow with the ability to birth, baby symbiotes. If thats true or not, we don't know. It's the best guess I can come up with off the top of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symok Posted February 27, 2006 Author Share Posted February 27, 2006 Now based on that' date=' when I say they need to be "bred" I mean something like, a Goa'uld whos already taken a host and wants to create a queen, may somehow inject a larvae symbiote with a chemical or enzyme that reacts causing them to grow with the ability to birth, baby symbiotes.[/quote'] That was my thought about it as well. With regards to bees, WikiPedia has this to say: Royal jelly is a type of bee secretion that aids in the development of immature or young bees. It is secreted by the heads of young workers and used (amongst other substances) to feed the young until they develop to the desired rank. If a queen is desired, the hatchling will receive only royal jelly as its food source, in order that she will become sexually mature and have the fully developed ovaries needed to lay more eggs for the hive. It would make sense if it were something similar for the Goa`uld... Probably just one of the many mysteries that will never be fully explained (Like how the Goa`uld got their first space ships when the Unas, who were the first hosts, are all primitives) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mav Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 The spaceship thing is simple, easy. It's assumption but, we know the Goa'uld are scavengers. They steal their technology from other races and use it or adapt it to their own. So the Una's are their main source of hosts, we know one of the Goa'uld homeworlds where they live naturally in lakes and rivers, has a Stargate. What's to say that a space faring people didn't venture through said gate, and maybe one or more get taken over by a mature symbiote? Symbiote takes one over, doesn't let it on and follows them back through the gate. And you can see how that has a snowball effect. He comes back, presumably with unconvcious hosts in tow and as their numbers grow so do their chances of taking over something. Sooner or later they get their own ship, then Jaffa, etc Now ironically, they did have to have someone design/create them ships. For example alot of Goa'uld (most I should say) were based on Egyptian mythology. And their ships, are based on pyramids, this is where we get the Ha'taks. It can't jut be a coincendence that some alien race other than the Goa'uld, had ships in the shape of pyramids while the Goa'uld imitate Egyptian gods. So obviously they had to design some of their stuff around their supposed god'hood. Little offtopic but while it would be a really slow process they can easily move from a primative host like Unas to more advanced ones like Humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remedyu Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 That episode was quite incredible, learning from where the Goa'uld came from. To think they were just slimy little worms swimming about in the lake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amnot Borg Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Isn't it more likely that humans built pyramids and kept religions based on what they saw of the Goa' uld's ships/rulers instead of the other way around? People imitated their so-called gods. Where the Goa' uld originally got the ideas for pyramids and their names most likely came from a culture that we of Earth haven't heard of yet... ...and in Season 1 Episode 21 - Within The Serpent's Grasp, Klorel/Skaara told SG-1, he was really Apophis's son because Apophis had seeded the Queen Mother and chosen his host for him. "Apophis gave me life." - Klorel ...sounds like Apophis was a male of some sort or at least fulfilled the same function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mav Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 I think that was either a figure of speech or a continuity error. If you notice in season 1 theres several other small mishaps of the same thing, mainly cause I think it began of Showtime/Cinemax and the writers really hadn't planned ahead for season 2 and 3. Season 2 in question cause that's when we meet the Tokra and learn that symbiotes are unisex neither male or female. As for Apohis/Klorel that could be construed as, the Goa'uld arrogance. Think about it, the System Lords know they won't live forever. Look at Yu he was old as hell before he bit the bucket and could no longer take new hosts. Even with the sarcophogus pretty much making them evil, it's not that far of a grasp to think Apohis was "thinking ahead" somewhat. He had his "queen" his wife. Maybe he knew some day he wouldn't be able to take a new host, so they quote unquote, adopted, a son; Klorel. A young symbiote probably just mature enough to take a host. In return of serving Apohis and being his heir, Apohis probably would have traded him knowledge and power. Learning the ropes of a System Lord, so to speak. Thats more really assumption, but who's to say it's not true. Let us not also forget that if two Goa'uld did mate and bring forth a child, wouldn't it also be exactly like a Harsi'sus? Granted it'd be a symbiote in need of a host instead of just a human child (which grew rather quickly when you think about it) but it'd still contain all the knowledge and stuff. So either or wouldn't be good, other wise the Goa'uld would be breeding like rabbits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mateya Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 ...and in Season 1 Episode 21 - Within The Serpent's Grasp, Klorel/Skaara told SG-1, he was really Apophis's son because Apophis had seeded the Queen Mother and chosen his host for him. "Apophis gave me life." - Klorel ...sounds like Apophis was a male of some sort or at least fulfilled the same function. yeah, good point - this sounds like a male goauld to me. When you think about it' date=' something doesn't nesscarily need to be female to breed. Plenty of animals are asexual, such as sea horses. [/quote'] afaik, sea horses have genders - a male actually carries the babies in his belly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remedyu Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 ...and in Season 1 Episode 21 - Within The Serpent's Grasp, Klorel/Skaara told SG-1, he was really Apophis's son because Apophis had seeded the Queen Mother and chosen his host for him. "Apophis gave me life." - Klorel ...sounds like Apophis was a male of some sort or at least fulfilled the same function. yeah, good point - this sounds like a male goauld to me. When you think about it' date=' something doesn't nesscarily need to be female to breed. Plenty of animals are asexual, such as sea horses. [/quote'] afaik, sea horses have genders - a male actually carries the babies in his belly. When the male sea horse is chased by predators, it throws the babies in the path of the predator so that it can make it escape while the predator stops to attack the babies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlaC Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Now that i think about it, a lot of things just don't seem to fit... Didn't the Goa'uld queen in season 1 need human dna (of daniel) in order to give birth to compatible (to humans) Goa'uld...?(or did they just need DNA, just to give birth at all?) It could explain why Apophis was his father, cause it shared some of Apophis host dna... But why could they go in Humans aswell as in Unas, in that episode on theyre homeplanet...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USWhoFan Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 I think that was either a figure of speech or a continuity error. If you notice in season 1 theres several other small mishaps of the same thing' date=' mainly cause I think it began of Showtime/Cinemax and the writers really hadn't planned ahead for season 2 and 3. Season 2 in question cause that's when we meet the Tokra and learn that symbiotes are unisex neither male or female.[/quote'] I seem to remember that before the Stargate series began, which I was looking forward to for a full year +, it was discussed that the series was supposed to last over 150 episodes. Which I think that puts it around 6-7 seasons. And I was really worried about it when Showtime sold it to Sci-Fi, or whatever happened there, because my wife and I wondered what was going to happen to the rest of the promised shows. Turns out we got more than we expected. :D I'll see if I can find the Fan Zine that discussed that and post it. (I save everything, it's just a matter of finding it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amnot Borg Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 In the episode with the Tok'Ra Queen Mother and the tretonin, she was huge so I always wondered how she could take a host or how any Queen could take a host since they are supposed to wrap around the spinal cord. Anyway, this site should offer some ideas. I found it interesting and they researched much deeper than I wanted to about Queen Mother reproduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symok Posted February 28, 2006 Author Share Posted February 28, 2006 In the episode with the Tok'Ra Queen Mother and the tretonin' date=' she was huge so I always wondered how she could take a host or how any Queen could take a host since they are supposed to wrap around the spinal cord.[/quote'] It's been a while since I watched it, but I think that most of the body was left behind in the tank... I would presume the symbiote is able to rewire the host's reproductive organs to be able to produce the infant symbiotes in simmilar fassion to how it's able to increase cellular devision for healing injuries, etc... Anyway, this site should offer some ideas. I found it interesting and they researched much deeper than I wanted to about Queen Mother reproduction. Looks nifty. Ill have to read it over in more detail tomorow. Thanks for the link! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amnot Borg Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 You are welcome, I just googled "Goa 'uld Queen Mother reproduction" and found it. The research they did seems to indicate that Queens hosts could be male or female since the gastrointestinal tract would actually hold the offspring not the hosts sex organs... They really went wild researching it based on comments from the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mav Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 In the episode with the Tok'Ra Queen Mother and the tretonin, she was huge so I always wondered how she could take a host or how any Queen could take a host since they are supposed to wrap around the spinal cord. Anyway, this site should offer some ideas. I found it interesting and they researched much deeper than I wanted to about Queen Mother reproduction. Just look at Aliens or Alien vs Predator. The Queen is able to detach herself from her birthing cocoon/canal. Disgusting somewhat but any sentient lifeform isn't going to have their queen defenseless. If all else fails she breaks loose and high tails it out of there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remedyu Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Interesting website, never knew it existed. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetsuoShima Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 I'm betting it could be as simple as bee-queens (it would be most logical), with the exeption maybe that the Goa'uld queen might have the ability to choose whther on not she want to 'create' a queen... edit: oh, this thread dated back to februari, didn't realise it was this old allready, since there are so few threads here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 Plenty of animals are asexual' date=' such as sea horses. [/quote'] I believe you'll find there are boy sea horses and girl seahorses. The pecularity of sea horses is that the males gestate the young. If we're assuming that they can create Queens, then whatever caused the Tok'ra queen to make happy loving symbiotes also made her infertile. You get the idea that they didn't really think about the whole situation, or were going to make it mysterious but then introduced various titbits that didn't sit too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now