Fenriswolf Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 Tenebrae mentioned a few things in his recent post in the Oblivion thread that got me thinking, where are gaming physics going? We've had a few games that break the mould in terms of interactive objects and realistic newtonian physics - but what about the next step, what about truly destructible environments that conform and deform to the force applied. You could say that Red Faction was probably the first game to employ an almost fully destroyable environment, but what's the next step? Is it: PhysX? PhysX Physics demos But it's not just the environments that need a shake up, so what about characters and their physical appearance, emotions and even tears? Watch the Heavy Rain trailer It's not just the external physics of games that are heading for a change, but the actual techniques of animation and character reaction. Lucasarts for their next Indiana Jones game are working on a system known as Euphoria, this hopes to simulate the various interactions between the living gameworld, living (in a gameworld sense) characters and introduces concepts such as virtual damage to AI, so rather than react with a script that tells them they've been hit, they're going to actively know. Digital Molecular Matter, plywood that reacts like plywood, metal that should react like metal, you get the picture. Indiana Jones gameplay and physics footage at Gametrailers So we're heading in a whole new direction and it looks to be some fascinating stuff :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted June 26, 2006 Share Posted June 26, 2006 My opinion is that as graphics come closer and closer to "real world" appearance, the logical step is to remove the monitor for a more immersive gaming environment. Physics and environmental interactivity are definitely an area for improvement. HL2 started the trend and I think it's going to be developed more as the graphical "boundaries" are hit. AI... Radiant AI in Oblivion is a good example. Heavy rain looks cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megalith Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 can remember a decade ago that hair was the in thing where each strand of hair was individually modelled. Fully immersive technology has been around for a while too with VR suits but the graphics where poor to total crap. VR is the way of the future and it shouldnt be too long before we are totally immersed in an artificial reality that isnt too dissimilar to our reality The world we live in would be radically transformed as alternative realities would be more erm interesting than real reality and we will one day emerge from our vr machines to find nature has intruded into our living spaces lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetsuoShima Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Given that by this time next year, most enthousiast processors will be quad-core and that Microsoft is currently developing an addition to DirectX for Physics calculations on graphics cards, it is my opinion that PhysX is dead. What's more, the fact that they had the stupid idea to release those first cards as PCI and not PCIe, get's them even in trouble before that. No self respecting gamer wants to see his framerate drop by a few fps just so he can see some black rubble floating around near explosions (all reviews I've seen indicate a framerate drop when PhysX is enabled), since that is what most demo's show Physics does. I've seen a few and the difference between with and without is small imo. I actually think it looks better without. Sure, you've got the barrels and such, but that can be done just as well with Havok. So, PhysX is dead... It will get a short moment in which it will become a bit stronger, but afterwards, when Microsoft is finished, they will be dead. The only true chance they might get is as a co-processor in AMD's latest scheme in development to be released when K8L arrives, it could be cost saving that way, all other possibilities spell doom for them imo. It is a good thing, more complex physics in games, but the difference to most gameplay and eyecandy will not be that tremendous, so I don't think a lot of people will be willing to pay and extra $200 for it. Sure, if it comes with the package (ie graphics cards physics), people will like it, but only true and whealthy enthousiasts will pay extra. This will become even more clear when the industry switches to 'real' multithreading and 8-cores+ will become ordinary (after 2009). So, it is my opinion that ATI and nVidia will be the ones leading gaming physics hardware in a couple of years. About physics in games in general: once the 'basic' physics are done correctly in games, it will be hardly be worth the effort to make the calculations even more correct, since that takes a lot more calculation power and the effect of it will be hardly noticable. However, the point where there still is a lot of possible benefit to gain from added physics calculations is in combination with graphical effects. So I do think that this specific part of 'physics' will be the part where gaming developers will concentrate their efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenriswolf Posted June 27, 2006 Author Share Posted June 27, 2006 I love the next step of AI with Radiant actually, lots of people had a go at the developers in that respect and said it wasn't as good as they promised...but...it's the next step, each step brings us closer to emotive AI and AI that has schedules and can react to environmental changes. Gothic actually had something similar, it wasn't as well developed as RAI but it certainly had the schedules and various interactions (such as sitting on benches, cooking dinner and so on). Half Life 2 with Havoc really pushed the boundaries of the physical interaction, now we're seeing games like Prey with gravity systems and strange gameplay elements. @Tetsuo: Physics is the next big step, I'm not that keen on PhysX to be honest compared to say: DMM from Lucasarts, being part of the Euphoria package. Now this stuff really does get my interest and if you haven't watched it...I suggest taking a look at the videos because it's very interesting stuff. And now, here's something that makes a good use of the Havoc engine :) Dark Messiah of Might and Magic: The next action/adventure game in the Might and Magic series, we're going a new direction with this one and building on the combat style seen in games like Oblivion. I've been keeping an eye on this game for a while, now the recent combat video was released I can truly say it'll be a visceral combat experience. Warrior combat video The AI in DMoM&M obviously likes to trigger traps and they will use advanced combat techniques like throwing /you/ around too, this isn't shown in the Warrior video. A short but sweet video, check out some of the attack moves in combat, like running the goblins through. DMoM&M trailer Lastly, this video has a number of advanced combat moves shown in full with an explanatory voice-over and I think it showcases the Source engine's potential and the game quite nicely. DMoM&M explanatory E3 vid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druj Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 I think that the industry is concentrating too much on improving the technology and not the gameplay. Most new games boast great graphics and sound, but the gameplay is only superficially improved. I'm not really interested in being able to play computer/video games in a virtual enviroment if all I'm going to do is play a standard FPS. I'd rather see that the technology is used to expand the possibilities within the game worlds themselves (and I'm not talking graphically here). More freedom to interact with the world, more realistic AI and most of all to create more interactive plot elements. This is happening to a certain degree, but not nearly enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenriswolf Posted June 27, 2006 Author Share Posted June 27, 2006 Hence Euphoria and the enhancements for the Dark Messiah of Might and Magic game. The premise behind Euphoria and DMM is one that fills me with the most excitement as a developer (not of this game). The technology will always be the primary focus of the big developers and publishers, they need to support the graphics card companies and vice-a-versa. Gameplay should be (and always was) king in my opinion, from the earliest Spectrum games to the latest such as Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory and Hitman: Blood Money. For me as a storyteller, being able to use the environment in new and creative ways is something I have yearned for for a long time...imagine having a giant cyclops, but all you can do with it is just hit it a few times and it falls over. Imagine then applying the latest physics technology to that combat with gameplay and suddenly the whole thing changes. We can make the battle between that large creature and the player much more dynamic, we can make the battle more epic and give the player interactive objects to use and the monster will be able to use those as well. AI techniques combined with this allow for a greater freedom of storytelling and of course some excellent gameplay moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 People that think gameplay hasn't improved are living in lalala land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenriswolf Posted July 5, 2006 Author Share Posted July 5, 2006 Hitman Blood Money has some nice gameplay improvements, same as Oblivion...but I got to get me Dark Messiah for that Assassin system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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