Earth

[ZaphodiLe]

I have not seen the original series. But from reading alot of forums on Battlestar Galactica, I am to understand most people believe Earth is the thirteenth colony of Kobol and that when and if bsg finds Earth, it will be in present time. Or that it is bsg that colonizes Earth.

So that means humans did not evolve on Earth, right?

 

I don't know if I missed something, but how would that explain that all the people living in Africa are black, all in Asia are asian and so forth? And all the other evolutionary evidence for that matter?

 

You would have to make up huge excuses to cover up that plot hole.

[maybrick]

It doesn't matter in the end because they'll never find Earth on the show. It's the question I don't think will ever be answered. For all we know, it's not even our "Earth" they're looking for.

[Tenebrae]

I think they will find Earth. They've got so much prophecy and stuff going on, they have to.

[slug]

It is rather a burning question, you are right to bring it up. It the general Galactica mythos its just one of those things that aren't rally considered by the ravings of people that write these sorts of shows. Glen A. Larson was a little Nutty, see 'Automan.' It goes alongside the other oddities of the show, like the question of how humans know little of their history but seemed to have developed FTL, technology on Kobol and then migrated. I think that this will be explained by the 'Gods' having increadible technology, providing humans with the ability to migrate and humans learn how to travel faster than light themselves. Big arks built by the Gods, (I won't get into exactly what kind of superhuman race they might be here.) humans get a head start in the tech. This really is the only way to explain the backstory and for this reason this is how I rationalise it, for I think if it is ever explained then it will have to be something along the lines of this.

 

The possibilities are:

 

Kobol was Earth. A bit lame, not likely.

 

They will find Earth, in past present, a la Galactica 1980, or future, the prophesy is all true, Earth was colonised by descendants of Kobol.

 

There are obvious evolutionary reasons, concerning human races and all life on Earth, why this seems proposterous. Remember that the original show was written from a somewhat religious perspective, not really a perspective that was interested in evolution and the like, more in the mythos of migration, Exodus and colonisation on a grand scale. Galactica was always about humanity and its epic journey, inspired by times when the Earth was an unknown and far reaching place. It was never really about science or rationalisation, and if you look at the remake, it has carried all these elements on.

 

I've said before that I'm beginning to think that Earth will be founded as a colony by human CYlon settlement, even the batty idea that the different Cylon models breed with humans on different continents. The black guy in Africa, Boomer in Asia, er, Tricia Helfer in Norway. I think that's where I'd settle. Its just this seems a bit utterly rediculous, more than anything Stargate came up with.

 

It would go along with the whole 'All of this has happened before, all of this will happen again,' thing. An interesting way to explain this would be to consider that it is derived from the universe endlessly repeating itself, it ends, goes backwards, starts again. The Gods of Kobol could be the human race/Cylons, having lasted until the end of time, to have evolved beyond time, to be all knowing in an ever repeating cycle of time that they are a part in but detatched from. This as well makes perfect sense, it would explain all of the show's prophesy elements and who the Gods are. The thirteenth colonists could in fact be the Galactica and their crew, known of from an etherial perspective.

 

OR?? The fleet for some reason ends up going back in time, crashing, on Kobol?? themselves being there own descendents and anscestors, the Gods being the Cylons??? This too would also explain the show being based on some kind of prophecy that is persistently proven to be accurate.

 

I would like to see and half expect the show to end in a way that resembles one of these two alternatives. I just don't think Ronald D. Moore sees things in that kind of light, that's more J. Michael Straksynski kind of storytelling. I also recall them saying that they would not find Earth in the show when it started. But I think they may well change their mind, and it does seem that the show will have to end answering some questions.

 

 

[ZaphodiLe]

I really hope they find Earth, and that there is a feasible explanation.

In HHGG I can take it cause it's comedy. But this is so serious :P Any plot hole big enough would kind of ruin it for me.

[bones2097]

how do you explain both ppls speaking english...

 

 

lol.. oh yeah those pesci univeral translator... doh!! wrong show!!!

[tar1901]

In the old show they found earth. They will find it here too, if the show runs long enough....

 

Earth a colony? And evolution. Hm, that is simple. Neanderthals evolved here, modern man is part of the "colony" and arrived from space.

 

Neanderthals die out one way or the other. Modern man lives to this day.

 

Or the original departure point was Earth.

 

[Centurion]

Or the original departure point was Earth.

 

The Earth map found on Kobol last season points into this direction. I think it was suggested then that the twelve colonies were not only named after Earth's zodiacal constellations, but also carried the star formations (seen from Earth) as their ancient symbols. Anyway, it seems clear that people from Kobol have been to Earth prior to the creation of the twelve colonies.

[ZaphodiLe]

In the old show they found earth. They will find it here too, if the show runs long enough....

 

Earth a colony? And evolution. Hm, that is simple. Neanderthals evolved here, modern man is part of the "colony" and arrived from space.

 

Neanderthals die out one way or the other. Modern man lives to this day.

 

Or the original departure point was Earth.

So all races agreed to go separate ways and take a corner of the world each?

Not to mention we share something like 98% of our genes with the chimpanses.

One explanation could be that we brought all species of animals and plants to Earth with us when we came here, like Noahs ark, but still there are fossils in the ground millions of years old.

[Antipodean]

In the old show they found earth. They will find it here too, if the show runs long enough....

 

Earth a colony? And evolution. Hm, that is simple. Neanderthals evolved here, modern man is part of the "colony" and arrived from space.

 

Neanderthals die out one way or the other. Modern man lives to this day.

 

Or the original departure point was Earth.

So all races agreed to go separate ways and take a corner of the world each?

Not to mention we share something like 98% of our genes with the chimpanses.

One explanation could be that we brought all species of animals and plants to Earth with us when we came here, like Noahs ark, but still there are fossils in the ground millions of years old.

 

Unless of course, the colonies were founded with spores/genetic programming whatever, so that a whole ecosystem, humans included, would "evolve" on each world... but that that on Earth, the documents, teaching tools/whatever which housed the Articles of Colonization and the human cultural inheritence were somehow destroyed and lost to Earth humans.

 

 

I dunno, it sounds a bit far fetched I know... but whatever explanation they come up with is going to have to be equally absurd, because the fact is that they'll have to reconcile how Humans independantly evolved on earth, but such that it can also be said that they actually "colonized" Earth, along with 12 other planets somewhere far far away. Either that, or they can just ignore the real physical and genetic evidence that Humans came from Africa.

[ZaphodiLe]

Well, I'm going to make up my own explanation:

 

Kobol is a 'colony' of Earth. Why did the people of Kobol not know about their roots?

There was a big war on Earth and the losing side had to leave, and they did not pass the tale of Earth down to their children.

As for the 13 colonies of Kobol, the 13:th simply headed home. But they never reached Earth, because of the virus (that thing in the last episode) Earth planted there if they would ever try to return.

[Ulysses]

lol you guys do make this more complicated lol simple...13th colony is earth and they traveled from the 12 colonies to earth.

[Hilander72]

lol you guys do make this more complicated lol simple...13th colony is earth and they traveled from the 12 colonies to earth.

not loling, care to elaborate... :o

[Ulysses]

well watch the orginal series as loreal green does explain at the beginning of the series lol

 

edit:

 

actually stand corrected it was patrick mcnee who does the openning credits lol

 

edit:

 

Heres the openning.................

 

there are thoses who believe that life here began out there

far across the universe

with tribes of humans who may of been the for fathers of the egyptains, the toltecs or the myians

there are some that believe that they are brothers of man

who even now fight to survive

somewhere beyond the heavens

[Hilander72]

I thought you had a new idea there for a while... :o

 

I know it isn't apparent, but I think this topic is most likely about the new re-imagined series and it's 13th colony/Earth mystery. :)

 

I've seen the original couple of times this year alone and there's a difference, since they did reach Earth, but they haven't done that in the new series yet and most of the 13th colony/Earth enigma is still unrevealed. :)

[Tenebrae]

I'm not going to go all out and say that this is verbatim what has been said but I'm confident.

 

The implication is that all 13 tribes started on Kobol and then things with the lords of Kobol went south, the 12 colonies we know and love headed off to colonise wherever it is they were and the 13th started the long journey to Earth.

 

Anyway - that's what I got from it.

[Hilander72]

I read this rather lengthy (and imaginative) post last week at another forum and though I might share it with you: source

 

In my opinion there still are some 'flaws', but it covers most of the facts...

 

I have written much of this at Pegasus Actual, but they don’t seem very interested or very active over there. Before I get started, I should warn my readers that I belong to a school of thought which holds that suspension of disbelief is a powerful commodity that is best used sparingly. Much science fiction is ruined by over-use of it, in my opinion. Therefore, wherever possible I try to minimize the audience’s need to apply suspension of disbelief when I am composing an explanation for things that have thus far gone unexplained.

 

I believe Earth is the place of origin for homo sapiens. The fossil record clearly indicates as much. To believe that humanity originated someplace else requires more intellectual acrobatics than I am inclined to give or an outright leap of faith/suspension of disbelief. The same applies to the idea that a genetically identical branch of humanity originated elsewhere and showed up on Earth at the right time to inspire Greek civilization to create the Gods of Olympus. For those who wish to believe in either of the above, I can’t disprove the notion. BSG is fiction, after all. However, I choose not to go that way because I am more sparing in my application of suspension of disbelief.

 

I also believe that having the RTF be the forefathers of the Greeks lacks drama. If this is true, why should we care about the series? We know what happens. We are proof that everything turns out okay for humanity. Thus, if I believe that the RTF finds Earth at some point in our past, I suck all the drama out of the show and reduce it to a History Channel documentaryâ€â€Âinteresting, but neither exciting nor dramatic.

 

Moreover, I believe having BSG set in our own future offers some very exciting themes and some very exciting possibilities for storytelling. I like this much more than turning BSG into a “History’s Mysteries†series.

 

Getting back to Earth, I see Earth as developing a true starfaring civilization. First the Sol system is colonized. Then, when FTL travel is developed, reconnaissance missions go far and wide in search of habitable planets. A variety of worlds is found. Kobol stands out as being uniquely Earth-like and ready for immediate colonization. Other worlds orbiting stars in close proximity to Sol require various degrees of remediation for human habitation. One or a few might be like Mars. One or a few might be like Venus, and we might see a number of worlds like Luna or Mercury. Colonies might be founded on any or all of these planets. However, Kobol stands out because its environment is so very Earth-like.

 

By this time in Earth’s history, technology has created a world as different from ours as our own is from Medieval Europe. Specifically, a new class of sentience has emerged from our technological civilization. The term I use for them is transcendi. I know this has a sort of New Age ring to it, but I haven’t come up with a new label yet. The transcendi have combined human-style consciousness with machinery. During the growth of artificial intelligence (AI), technology found it easiest to copy the organic model of the human brain. This also facilitated the creation of very human-like personalities, albeit operating at an extraordinary speed and capacity. Whether actual human sentience is somehow “downloaded†into these machine forms or whether a very precise facsimile is created, or whether the new sentience is an outgrowth of hyper-advanced software capable of learning on its own is a subject for another time. Suffice to say that the transcendi are basically machines with human-like minds. These machines do not suffer from human mortality. With multiple nodes, advanced technology, and vast control over the computer systems of a starfaring civilization, the transcendi are demigods to ordinary humans.

 

By their nature, transcendi have a very difficult time living harmoniously with humans. They compete for many of the same resources. Humans are terribly slow and fragile compared to transcendi. Being mental analogues to humans, some transcendi might experience some of the same emotional issues as humans: jealousy, insecurity, rage, etc. It’s easy to see how this would not be good for the humans in association with transcendi.

 

For a time, however, Earth’s transcendi and humans manage to get along in some harmony. Perhaps highly principled transcendi keep their brethren in check while human civilization spreads throughout Sol and beyond. Perhaps the transcendi assume the role of leaders of the civilization. Perhaps they take the role of senior advisors or some such. Many possibilities exist because individual personalities and philosophies will play a large role in the course of history.

 

Earth dispatches a colony mission to Kobol. Perhaps a dozen transcendi are sent along to help cope with labor shortages. After all, there is a limit to the number of humans who can be transported to Kobol. The transcendi can run automated manufacturing to make new machines from local materials without the lengthy process of breeding and raising their offspring. Perhaps only one or a few transcendi accompany the Kobol mission. The balance of the twelve who become the Lords of Kobol might arise from Kobolic resources.

 

For a time, all is well. The humans and the transcendi live side-by-side in relative harmony. However, at some point things get out of hand. The transcendi, who are demigods for all intents and purposes, take on the names of the Olympians to make a statement about their relationship with Kobolic humans. As with the Greek gods, who were possessed of vast power but very human natures, the Lords of Kobol begin to squabble amongst themselves. One wishes to be supreme among the others. Whether this one is Zeus or a thirteenth entity (a monotheistic god analogue?) I cannot say. At any rate, conflict spreads. The Lords of Kobol use the humans of Kobol as pawns in their struggles. Kobolic civilization begins to unravel.

 

Back on Earth, much the same has been happening. The transcendi find that they cannot co-exist with humans very peacefully. This is a simple matter of evolution, much as homo sapiens could not live side-by-side with other hominids. At the same time, the transcendi might find that they cannot co-exist with each other any better than ordinary humans have been able to co-exist. Competition for resources and status leads to conflict. This conflict spreads among all the colonies in proximity to Sol, which I will call the Pale for now. This conflict may or may not be directly tied to events on Kobol. It’s not entirely unreasonable to see some ongoing communication between Earth and Kobol during the time between Kobol’s founding and the collapse of its civilization.

 

While Kobolic civilization heads for its crash, interstellar reconnaissance continues. One of these missions identifies the Cyrannus system. I won’t go into the details here, but I have devised a five-star cluster which offers some prospects for a dozen habitable worlds, though only a couple of them are Earth-like. Everyone is very excited about the biggest jackpot humanity has yet discovered in the course of exploring the galaxy. Perhaps colonization efforts are begun on Kobol. Perhaps Kobolic civilization reaches its tipping point before such an effort can be undertaken.

 

Catastrophe overtakes the Pale. Perhaps starting at Earth, perhaps starting elsewhere, a paroxysm undoes the advanced societies. The transcendi make war on each other and, by extension, the humans whom other transcendi control/guide/protect. Interstellar civilization collapses. The Pale enters a Dark Ages analogous to what happened to Western Europe following the collapse of the Roman Empire. Interstellar trade and travel all but ceases. Colonies that are not self-sufficient gutter and perish. Even intrasystem travel and trade cease. Each world is thrown back on its own resources. Most cease to be.

 

Exactly how things happen on Kobol is hard to say. It’s clear that the end of Kobolic civilization inspires the flight of the Twelve Tribes. What is more difficult to say is how well-prepared the Twelve Tribes were for the flight. Did they flee before the end of the world? Did they flee after the end of the world in a precursor to the flight of Galactica and the RTF? I can imagine that the Lords of Kobol might not be too keen on allowing humans to prepare to escape; and so it might be that the apocalypse annihilated Kobolic civilization in a day, leaving only those humans who happened to be in space as survivors. These humans might then be forced to make some tough choices. The so-called Thirteenth Tribe might have journeyed to Earth to seek aid or to see if Earth would be a suitable home for refugees. Word returned that Earth was no place for Kobol’s refugees to go, for whatever reason. As a result, the Twelve Tribes opted to risk starting anew in the Cyrannus system. Things were so hard for them that over the first century or so of Colonial history, most historical records ceased to exist. The fact that Earth was the mother world was lost. The Colonials only remembered that their forebears came from Kobol and that a Thirteenth Tribe journeyed to Earth in the great exodus from Kobol.

 

The Pale, with Earth at its center, struggles through the next two thousand years of history in much the same way that the Colonies do. Although most colonies in the Pale die off, a few survive. A couple have been more-or-less completely terraformed by the time of collapse. A couple of colonies on hostile worlds do not completely lose their self-sufficiency. They limp along for some time, clinging to existence. Then of course there is Earthâ€â€Âbroken, but not lifeless.

 

After many centuries, a couple of the worlds of the Pale recover sufficiently to begin interstellar travel. Those colonies that have survived become reintegrated into an interstellar human civilization. As is inevitable with technological civilizations, new transcendi emerge. The conflicts of old rise phoenix-like from the ashes.

 

I would love to see Galactica arrive at just this moment in history. The Pale resembles Earth of the late 1800’s in that some societies are advanced and/or populous, while others are less technologically sophisticated and/or scantily populated. The transcendi have claimed most of these worlds and are using them for their own transcendi agendas. I don’t know where Earth fits into this picture. However, I’d love to see Galactica playing a key role in preventing Earth’s civilization from destroying itself yet again. I’d also like to see some of the new transcendi recognizing cousins in the Cylons. Many, many exciting possibilities exist here.

 

Webstral

[Tenebrae]

Seems like a waste of time - he's based this ALLLLLL on the assumption that BSG is occurring in a universe that has a history similar or identical to our own.

 

I strongly doubt that RDM is going to go "HAHAHA, it was really our Earth all along!" because that's just so unbelievably stupid. I imagine that if that was revealed, a lot of fans would just throw their hands up and leave.

 

To sum up, I don't much care for this idea. I don't care for it much at all.

[maybrick]

Seems like a waste of time - he's based this ALLLLLL on the assumption that BSG is occurring in a universe that has a history similar or identical to our own.

 

I agree. When you think about it a bit, it stands to reason that any alien civilization would name their home planet a word that would translate into English as "Earth". So with that in mind, just because they're searching for a world called "Earth" it doesn't mean that it's our Earth. As an example, in the original 70s series, they stumble across a world named "Terra", another word for "Earth".

[ZaphodiLe]

I like it :)

 

It has some resemblance to the Foundation though.

 

I just hope the writers REALLY think this one through and not go for an illogical and maybe too simple explaination.