hayden Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 I just re-watched Nemisis this evening, and it has sort of gotten better after not seeing it for a while.. I still can't believe Data dies! I was wondering what anybody else's opinions are on the show. Personally i do rate it fairly well, i think it started out really well on Romulus, but they really lost they're way and got obsessed with Shinzon in the screen play. I would have really liked to see a bit more of Romulus or of there culture, and maybe some more internal corruption and what not. But still the character development involved in the show is great. Data in particular. And does anybody know what sparked the idea of Data dying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 Data dying? I'd say it was Brent Spiner NOT wanting to reprise the role ever again, period. Honestly... I can't think of a Star Trek movie I really liked. They all seemed more like cheesy spin-offs than actual Trek stories, with some far cheesier than others, and Nemesis was chock full of retcon. >_< 'Why didn't we ever hear about Remans before, despite often heavy discussion about Romulans and their home world throughout Trek? Umm....' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vystral Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 Nemesis caught a bad rap because it didn't do well at the box office. I loved the movie. I felt that it was a great way for that crew to go out. At least, it beats the crap out of Insurrection... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 Honestly... I can't think of a Star Trek movie I really liked. They all seemed more like cheesy spin-offs than actual Trek stories, with some far cheesier than others, and Nemesis was chock full of retcon. >_< Erm I wouldnt say that Wraith Of Khan was cheesy, it was probably the best of the lot, but thats just my view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 Yeah, despite that whole "Ageing program" they stuck in to season 7 of TNG, I think that Brent Spiner was fairly adamant that he wasn't going to keep on playing Data indefinitely because it would be fairly implausible for an android to have the onset of a paunch etc. And presumably, he wanted to put the role behind him because even though he said he enjoyed the part... I think that every real actor wants to go on and do something else after 7 seasons and 4 feature films... So, this was a chance to give him a send off. Personally, I thought it was kind of lame because you know any other day of the week, he'd have been able to get out of there somehow... but then I think the idea of B-4 was that they'd be able to have SOME relatively non-contrived way of "resurrecting" Data if the need arose. I have to side with GorunNova though, I don't think any of the Star Trek films have really done it for me... well, First Contact was fairly cool but even so, it wasn't blowing me away with awesome. Nemesis's problem was that it was far too ponderous and pompous - even by the standards of Star Trek, which is saying something. We occasionally escape the long winded musing of Patrick Stewart about the nature of time, to see his clone engaging in diabolical musings. They even managed to make the space battle at the end rather tiresome and boring - "KEEP FIRING AT SPACE!" etc. It had a LOT of pacing issues... To be honest, it's not surprising so much of this film ended up on the cutting room floor (unedited, it ran to over 3 hours). Not really a fitting swansong for the TNG crew... AND WHY DOES WORF ALWAYS COME BACK?! Did they just think after First Contact - eh, we don't need to explain Worf being here... Wrath of Khan not cheesy? KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayden Posted April 22, 2008 Author Share Posted April 22, 2008 you could say that warf was there because he was there for the wedding at the start?? I thought it was kind of lame because you know any other day of the week, he'd have been able to get out of there somehow... True, If they really wanted to save him they could have got on a runabout or the captains yacht and used the independent transporters. Or why not have two of those backup site to site transporters. It is a little rediculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Yeah, I NEVER get that... "The transporters are shot!" Uh... you've got at least 2 shuttlecraft on board and last time I checked, they all have transporter systems... I suppose there is the fact Worf was there for the wedding but you'd think he'd been away for so long, that there'd be people more familiar with the ship... but I understand it's because we ALL know Worf and they probably didn't want to have another Hawk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vystral Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 but I understand it's because we ALL know Worf and they probably didn't want to have another Hawk. ah Hawk...classic redshirt mentality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USWhoFan Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 but I understand it's because we ALL know Worf and they probably didn't want to have another Hawk. ah Hawk...classic redshirt mentality Hawk? :thinking: Wasn't he the birdman from Buck Rogers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amnot Borg Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Neal McDonough played Lieutenant Sean Liam Hawk in Star Trek: First Contact. He dies after he's infected with Borg technology. A redshirt death to protect the more important characters. ..and Yes Hawk was a 2nd season addition to BuckRogersofthe25thCentury after they feminized Wilma Deering by making her wear a skirt and put everyone on a space cruise ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Yeah, he had about one line, then gets assimilated - then floats off into SPACE! The final frontier. As Amnot says, he was basically there to take one for the team... presumably as he's a named character people would think that his death was more significant than some Billy Redshirt getting blown away randomly etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vystral Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 I think it's hilarious that he actually had a real red shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amnot Borg Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 The two officers that escaped an attack by him and had to kill him were..... Worf and Picard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayden Posted April 23, 2008 Author Share Posted April 23, 2008 The red shirt bonanza never ceases to amaze me. Maybe they should restrict red shirt wearing to lieutenant commander and up to help slow the death toll, the amount of families Picard has had to tell because of the deaths... I'm sorry to inform you of your son/daughters death, it appears he/she was wearing a red shirt at the time. However as you know clearly outlined in the federation charter, section 25 paragraph e, "..the impending death of a red shirt wearer below the rank of lieutenant commander can be in no way Star Fleets responcability as all new recruits are informed of the risks before signing on.." Once again I am very sorry for the red shirts death. Capitan Juen Luke Picard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USWhoFan Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 ..and Yes Hawk was a 2nd season addition to BuckRogersofthe25thCentury after they feminized Wilma Deering by making her wear a skirt and put everyone on a space cruise ship. :D Too funny and too true. Also I was surprised to see Sean Hawk has his own Wiki page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Hawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Hmm, what was the fatality rate like for red shirts vs. yellow in TNG - given that they swapped security/engineering with command and generally, people in engineering and security are the ones to die - think all the people that died every time Geordie had a coolant leak, Tasha Yarr etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbb Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 I'd say the ratio would be about the same. It's hard to tell I think because TNG was more than double the length of the original series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-NUKE Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 Yes I LOVED this movie and always need fresh TNG material to feed my dying heart. I hope there is another and another and..... well you get it. Anyway I hope if there is any new material B4 isn't as dumb acting as he was in this one. Oh by the way I just got a lifesize cardboard cutout standup thingy of Picard from a library that was moving. I think I will sleep with it to keep me safe at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbb Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 I don't think Data could have had a better death scene, apart from 'old' age. It was like the one with Spock from TWOK without the dialogue. I think more TNG movies would have been possible if Nemesis and Insurrection had gone better. If STXI goes well perhaps they will consider bringing back Picard and company, and even pull a STIII and bring back Data. Maybe he survived the big explosion and got sent to another dimension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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