Religion and alien life

[Beawulf]

I would like to hear points of view from people who consider themselves to be religious in one way or another, if they believe in life on other planets?

 

from what I know of some religions they seem to tend towards the ideology that we are alone in the universe, god's only children made in his image, with the universe made only for us. It seems to me that a (traditional) belief in god and a belief in the existence of other intelligent life are mutually exclusive.

 

 

Do you believe in the possibility of existence of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe? How do you reconcile the differences between your religion and this point of view, or how does your religion support it?

 

 

NOTE: this is not a flame thread, its purpose is not to argue the validity of any religious beliefs or to force my beliefs on others (vice versa). If you want to debate the validity of ideologies do it in the religion thread.

[TetsuoShima]

Well, I don't consider myself to be a very religious person, but I do have a nice annecdote:

 

A good friend of mine, the one who got me hooked on StarTrek again after not having watched it for quite some time, is a big fan of the series. Now you think StarTrek, aliens, not that far appart. Wel we had this discussion once and he actually is completely convinced that Humankind is the only really intelligent species in the Universe. Why? You're right: because of God and the Bible. I just thought that it was funny, because he absolutely loves the show, but he doesn't think that there even is the slighttest remote possibility of something like that ever happening...

 

As for myself, well since I'm not a truely religious person, it's kind of hard for me to answer that.... I don't know much of religions outside Christianity, but I think Christians generally think that there is no intelligent life anywhere else than on Earth and there also is no other intelligent life other than humans. I don't remember having heard/seen anything like that in the Bible btw... It might be something like 500 years ago, when Earth was still the center of the universe... Just some general idea that people think they have extracted from the Bible but it really isn't mentioned... But I really wouldn't know for certain, I'm no specialist in the matter... :)

 

 

As far as me being religious: I do believe that there is the possibility of a God, I do not dismiss it/him/her, but I also believe there is the possibility that there isn't... IYKWIM... ;)

 

 

And me believing in aliens, well I think there is a high likelyhood that they are out there. It can be argued in a religious and a non-religious way that there might exist aliens somewhere else in the Universe. This doesn't make it true though. And I have to add that the opposite can also be fairly easily argued. In any case, the possibily of humans ever encountering aliens is extremely remote though, especially in the near future. So I guess this question will remain unsolved for quite some time.

 

That doesn't make it any less interesting though... :)

[mcant]

The bible pretty much states that the earth sun and everything else was made for man who was made in gods image

 

this pretty much rules out intelligent alien life being acceptable without some major theological double talk

 

Of course they could always classify them as souless and therefore put there for our use making it ok to enslave them (I'm pretty sure that arguement has religious precedents)

[TetsuoShima]

Yes, and who's to say he didn't make another sun and people and world and such for another race in some other place in the Universe? Or is this considered double talk? :)

[mcant]

and told them they were made in his image too? and what about the happy hunting ground does that have all these sperate areas where the inhabitants think they are the only ones there?

 

Oh this is gonna be great. first contact is gonna spark a massive Jihad over who is made in Gods image

 

I can half way accept a god in a white coat with a warped sense of humour using planets as petri dishes. but I think the point of this thread is organised religions attitude

 

 

Interesting pdf file on church opinions

[Beawulf]

perhaps it could be argued within the bounds of christianity that god could have made other worlds with man made in his image, same as us....humans, and with the gift of free will perhaps they have taken a different course from a similar beginning, ie perhaps adam and eve didnt eat the forbidden fruit... Could be one 'eden' per galaxy.

 

edit: if it were to be one per galaxy we may never make first contact, travel between galaxies seems virtually impossible (the exception being galaxies that collide)

[TetsuoShima]

and told them they were made in his image too? and what about the happy hunting ground does that have all these sperate areas where the inhabitants think they are the only ones there?

 

Oh this is gonna be great. first contact is gonna spark a massive Jihad over who is made in Gods image

 

I can half way accept a god in a white coat with a warped sense of humour using planets as petri dishes. but I think the point of this thread is organised religions attitude

 

 

Interesting pdf file on church opinions

 

I fully agree.

 

And I also don't think it was Beawulfs intention of having such ideas go around (I won't post others like it), it is just something I though of some time ago and indeed I don't think that church leaders would readily accept it. :)

 

EDIT:

 

perhaps it could be argued within the bounds of christianity that god could have made other worlds with man made in his image, same as us....humans, and with the gift of free will perhaps they have taken a different course from a similar beginning, ie perhaps adam and eve didnt eat the forbidden fruit... Could be one 'eden' per galaxy.

 

edit: if it were to be one per galaxy we may never make first contact, travel between galaxies seems virtually impossible (the exception being galaxies that collide)

 

Ah, the possibilies.... :)

But I doubt they (chuch leaders) would even accept something fairly elegant like this...

[wahaha]

Different gods for different races/species, er aliens. We got this face, some other planet has a bug head.

[GorunNova]

I'm curious (uselessly...) about how many races would even have god-figures... more natuarally communal races would probably not need gods at all to work together, and less communal ones wouldn't unify even if they had a common god (if that'd be even possible). With any luck, they'd be polytheistic (and open to incorporating new, human gods), or deist / pantheist (accept our view as another viewpoint of the Universe, or consider that God may not have anything to do with us at all...). If we run into a more advanced monotheistic religious race, we will most likely be screwed!

 

Anyways... given that I'm an atheist...I really am technically disqualified from this discussion, so I won't post again. ^^'

[StitchInTime]

My Grandfather was a very devout Christian, and a leader within his faith, who took The Bible quite literally. When I asked him this question, he said there was nothing in The Bible that excluded the possibility that God had created life elsewhere or that it could have been created in accordance with a totally different image.

[Antipodean]

Any of you lot heard about the Raelians - crazy freaking cult pretty much... their religion IS aliens! :P

[StitchInTime]

I sure have. It had to happen some time.

[Beawulf]

Isnt the Raelian religion based on some guy's alien encounter while he was on LSD?

 

 

While I personally believe that alien life (has/does/will) exists elsewhere in the universe, I dont think it is likely that any have ever come to earth let alone abducted people :P

[StitchInTime]

Isn't the proof that there is intelligent alien life in the universe the fact that they have never visited us? (Paraphrase of a remark by, Don Ferguson, Royal Canadian Air Farce.)

 

;)

[psheldrake1]

 

Isn't it one and the same

[dr_strekge]

What I can tell you is this:

 

When I was 10yo I saw a case that later will have some influence in my decision about makin my own search for spirituality...

 

My father was going to  some conferences of people of the A.A. when I was , he was just a good father he made a great decision for whole the family... but the man the leader was also an intelligent man, beloved by his followers, at that time their teachings was of love and family reuinion, with the 12 steps for abstinency, this man founded a big movement in many countries, lots of families and wives were gratefull and I as a kid, I like to go with him to some yearly main events to one of the local stadiums in my locality, that night we arrive to the stadium, all families have been told to  make some sandwiches and drinks to share with, there was a march of the members (the fathers organized by the group they belonged) showing things for amuse, it was a good thing to see the good will of ppl, the weird stuff the preacher tolds about a "relative god " and "absolute god" and the things that did happen like lights visits photos, where not a thread to anyone, the man essencially was intelligent and teaching love, and no one feels threaded about because  , it was A.A. and aliens together but for good, ppl was amazed, I saw  wierd little lights coming from the sky and then into ballons, A man trying to capt on camera but a force keeping his camera  to get down, I was there, the man givien a speach and glowing ligth around him, and after  that a collection of photos as a gallery, other strange photos but this aliens looks so friendly a huge man with a strange space-suitl smile behind one of the carrousels, many others pics of photos showing little rounder and big lights in the space or right coming from the sky like hailing, let say "love was truly on the air" so these alien beings were with us" in some way, that how I felt... and that's how it happen there... there were 2000 or more persons there, many of them still remember similar events... here at that time there where not such a technology, I remember a pseudo-transformer car improvised that stands "tranforming into a robot" from one group of mechanics also members of A.A.

 

I can't tell you if that was my closest ufo experience, or what was going on for sure... but it somehow religious and somehow A.A., their principles were fine and did work as far the man(lthe eader) thought "dont drink, love your family and this beings love us and see our mutual understandin" and share our gratefull and our common oblation to the divinity..."

 

Two years later my father take a break from work for two months, he was trying to figure out his "Pah" (being from a traditional catholic ways, after rehabilitated, and having a closer link to his A.A colleges and friends, I enjoyed to listen to him, my faith in God and religious and general dogma got into a more deep and universal way of looking to the infinite love, so my father's one... I was proud of him, (and I am now when I remember his courage and his decision...)

 

Things changed drastically after all "good times" the "leader" was getting to the "dark side" naming or putting himself the god-child for nativities, many stange accidents, sort kind of satanism rumors arrived... the group leaders teaching the contrary, leaving their wifes and kids in later years, smoke a lot have many women, the leader getting rich and building a great mansion and a discotheque, no more  sane teachings of the divinity, no more respect to the christ, and talking about mary, the tipical dissention of "satan" was mining all the good things of the past... the leader also getting kicked his ass out of  some U.S and Mexico major sedes of the movement for blasphemy...etc

etcetera.

 

We tried the protestant stuff with the so called "business man of christ"

many people were caught and trapped in that little net like fishes and converted to obedient sheeps, and never could find out the exit to that breakfast and "let's talk about doom's day and of the devil talk instead of christ love"  :) a mix of protestant satanism brainwash induction and pseudo-christian-spiritism and mediumnism 'cause  "you must believe was the "Holy Ghost" giving you "the gift of many-thongues" when u fall in the floor like a possesed freak of hell saying a non-sese thing like ! HALlAH HALAH HALAH HALLAH! really a more terrifying thing that a laugther one... beleive me... Three days of that and we were done, forget about it! on sunday morning when it was just over and we where realesed from our confinement :) Thanks to God! for that. (that were my first solid meals on religion, I was beginning to awake my conciouss, and knowing the forms of the "evil", so am happy for not being a donkey swallowing all the salt and grass they tried to give to my mind :), I understood for the first time that if I'm gonna do my spiritual journey I must and would never allow to get trapped in wackos netz and that I allways have to chew first the whole thing before deciding what to swallow in this big world of beliefs, traps, theories, philosophies, as it seemed like a big buffete to get indigested or poisoned sometimes... if you don't pay attention about what may you eat and what you better not swallow in religious matter...)

 

 

 

I wasn't an expert on the religious subjects but one thing was for sure to me: That thing wasn't the Holy Ghost, simply because you now holy is holy , and that wasn't a holy ghost, was more like an exorcist chapter local sect, and other that mans really beleive it they were not sincere wrong people... maybe with nice intentions but misguided...

 

So after have being in a catholic college and being a good respectful and sometimes devoted good boy, I unexpectedly had started to explore my belief world... learning that "good" can comes from the most rare places and ppl and "evil" can be hide just behind the name of christianism and holiness with a proper speech an elegant tie and work wearing a breakfast some making  you feel better with palms to your shoulder, and end with a possesion or obbsesed and turbated minds or maybe mentally ill or actual madness ( five years ago I hear of one business man with a wealthy status and wife, was the realestate office partner with my dad's and now he was so doomed and satanized and brainwasher that he was having convulsing and having brain leaking illness, he was a normal person of business to me, so far so good happy  married with a espouse and childs and now even their wife doesn't support his madnes breaking "the idols" at home, he's now finished, but he never knew when to quit about it..., after 11 years now the only thing this remembers to me is the truth of the words "comercializing not just with beliefs  & goods (and drugs and more...) but with souls" as St. John Apostol predicted... 

 

Now returning to the times of the alienA.A. movement after the leader did started the new "hell ways"

 

My father was having a internal spiritual fight or dilemma and was resolved to put a end to it the sooner better... he left the movement and after confronting his belief and his duty he has no more chance to dilucidations and begin to assist to regular mass invited from one of the local catholic church priest,or course accompanied with his wife the renowed his marriage both and find their modest but way of serving the Lord as a couple helping couples with familiar problems to find love in a more understandable and safety way, they remain there until this day,  am happy for them in someway... although my father never follow his  "Pah" or spiritual search they like what they are doing, but definitevely that experiences did mark my path, giving me a start point  and a more "universal" understanding perspective about religions and tolerance for non-earthlings beings (if they are still outhere), cause I was there... and I would be  a fool if I try to deny or forget instead of extracting  the meaning and understanding my religious past experiences. It is like saying: Why not can god love others like he loved other man and woman over human history?? no matter where they are, like music  and math the higher love and wisdom and knowledges atract this peaceful beings but there is also the dark, but in the secret of our interior,  we know love and truth prevail allways at the end.... Could it be otherwise? , I ask to my self... if my simple reason answers it could't be, something in my heart tells me "Oh no, you may but you can't  lie to your self aboit it...you no that's impossible :), that is the certainity of the necessary equilibrium of the forces, as it is out-side so it is inside as the hermeticism axiom  declares...time was to talk and now is time to make silence...

 

 

Science says: "credo qui est absurdum"

Faith replies: "credo qui absurdum non credere"         

 

   

[Tenebrae]

Yeah, I just get a paragraph into that and I've really not got a clue what you're trying to say... and it just gets worse as I go on.

 

Anyway, I recall this issue coming up in the Arthur C. Clarke book Rama... someone is going off to the big ship and talks to the Pope... and he suggests that aliens would have had their own version of Jesus and such.

 

Raelians are mentalists but it's based on a specific reinterpretation of some part of the Bible... where Jesus is an alien or something.

 

I'm not much for religion... other sentient races and their approaches to religion etc. would be interesting to study, no doubt.

[dr_strekge]

Yeah It was too large and I have not correct it (yet) but is the history of ufo manifestation and a deviated from "light" leader resuming... well there is a lot (very little indeed )of things I understand and maybe you as well Tenebrae but I prefer not to talk about how dirty and powerfull (poisonous)  black magick can be... so I only talk some aspects.

 

However, for me, over the years, I founded very reasonable and of course a matter of faith the 'fact' of a legion of saviors of worlds or mesiahs for this order of worlds in this galaxy coming from the central sun of the galaxy Sirius but not just only the physical sun, but the spiritual sun perhaps beyond the electronic manifestation of that immense sun. Our Christ is not  the only one being from that star and not the only one in the universe with such grade of perfection but considering how hard is to a regular man to achive this grade (By Faith even the most powerfull Thrones of heaven who emanate oceans of life from their hands incline their forehead to the man the Master Jashua a former Christ, to become to a grade so high  requires  a great great effort for the being to actually complete successfully such missions of coming for this retarded humanities like this globe called Earth to be treated like a criminal and be murdered... (sacrified for M.·.nkind)                                       

                                                             

 

Is the sacrifice of Prometheus and Hercules liberating him by order of Zeus, Adan being taked to heavens by Christ making Thy wiill of Thy Heavenly Father.

 

Thy son of God(s) or the perfect mediator remains directedly linked to this world (Hercules helping king Atlas carrying the world) in particular chain of love and special manner is Thy Lord of all souls of this planet. (M.·.T.·.AT.·.N according to V.·.M.·. E.·.L.·.)

 

We have a lot to learn about how this powerfull beings handle karma of the worlds just in this part of the galaxy. JOY TO THE WORLD! Thy savior comes and show to us the best of our unknown super-nature.

 

There is a superior or heavenly hierarchy in the triumphant church with many grades...grades of perfection are beyond total holyness... a man who become a Christ is the greatest mahatma or great soul that can visit a spiritually retarded globe with a  humankind.

 

Really there's no aliens but only the ones outside this univresal community of all beings, because God is in every being and the beings who have realized the Truth, Love and Purity within their selves talk the same "Verb" of the souls that is universal. That explains in part the fact that a man of God can hear from birds or from the trees that melodic eternal voice revealing to him dangers, preventing him, a preciousl    "donus dei" or faculty. Christ is the melodical voice of the Indostan, Thy Verb, who realized Thy Verb inside their self is not an "alien" anywhere anymore in this universe, is no other is  one with them, with all, but still he is who he is, is a multitude and is an individual, that is the "Corpus Christi" utmost meaning. like the chatolic (relative to universality word adopted for roman church to express this quality) chant sings:

 

"All united conforming a unique body,

peregrin church of God,

We are in Earth seed of other Reign!, 

peregrin church of God." 0:) 

 

So you see how this aparently silly dogmatic religious chant for "child spirits" of religion contains it self  a wise truth of faith and also how by develating it. it makes possible the counciliation with pure reason, or pure Science. Supreme reason is the absolute to our finite relative reason and thus becomes it's guiding star, without it, reason of man points to it's analog or relative absurd conclusions. So I can't deny reason to anyone and am being reasonably right to do so... :) but denying faith truths will be formulating an absurd and calling a chimera to faith, sooo :thinking: it exist the possibility of alien life or 'a-lie' or supossed 'entities' (or spirits) for us but it is because of our finitiveness of perception and understanding of 'the real' what could made us adopt this terms in our linguistic forms, short forms to describe or denominate  finite perceptions about living beings in this universe.

[Tenebrae]

I prefer not to talk about how dirty and powerfull (poisonous)  black magick can be

 

And you just lost me again.

[motoxjesse]

Hey did God ever say that there is no life on other planets? I do remember that he didn't mention how our planet revolves around the sun and not the other way around? Maybe he just forgot to mention that. That said, could it be possible that he also forgot to mention anything about life on other planets? Well maybe at the time it would have been too much for out tiny brains to handle, as would the whole planet around the sun thingy. just a thought.