Tenebrae Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Are you assuming the Borg are without emotion? It seems that the Queen is pretty emotional. She is of course representing the collective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USWhoFan Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 The head honchos never follow the same rules the rest have too. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 True enough... but then in the case of the Borg Queen, that seems to have been kind of the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilander72 Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 The Borg are arrogant and the Borg Queen (She is the Borg) proves it. She must have been very lonely, cause she was seeking a companion by any means (Locutus, 7). And since she was arrogant nobody could stand her for more than a couple of days. And if her "victims" where give an option they would have gladly put a phaser to their heads and stuned themselfs to get some comfort and relife, but eventually they would have reset the phaser to lethal force to end the misery altogether. That's my 1 krona. :cyclops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Bit of a dangerous loner, that Borg Queen. All the other Borgs made fun of her at school - voted most likely to be a cartoon baddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mav Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 Bit of a dangerous loner' date=' that Borg Queen. All the other Borgs made fun of her at school - voted most likely to be a cartoon baddy.[/quote'] lol cartoon baddy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Oh, come on - don't tell me you didn't hear that after season 4 they considered making Voyager a 20 minute saturday morning cartoon? ;) Can't you just see Janeway strapping a huge acme rocket to Voyager or the Borg Queen painting wormholes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USWhoFan Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I never heard about that... Kinda paints a picture in my mind of the Farscape episode where they were Looney Tunes Cartoon characters. :) Now THAT had potential! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I was being facetious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker41NAM Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I know I'm behind in getting to this thread, but here's my take (not counting the fact that writers don't always talk to each other or look at overarching storylines). All this is roughly in ST-chronological order Regeneration (ENT): 24th century Borg send a signal to their counterparts (which just happens to mean it'll get there about the time they left). We don't know where they sent that signal from. Maybe they were in the vicinity of what would become "The Neutral Zone" (TNG Season 1). That is the directions they would have been going, and would explain why the Borg came, scooped up some colonies, and left. The Borg could have transwarped in, nailed those colonies, and t-warped home again. They knew where to go. Q Who? (TNG, season 2): When Q throws the Enterprise to meet that Cube, the cube was probably on some kind of patrol mission. They were obviously in Borg space, since the planets had already been wiped. But when Q threw the Enterprise back, they didn't just suddenly teleport home. They went spinning around a few thousand light-years, so the Borg wouldn't have known where they stopped. They'd have to travel in real-space along the Enterprise's exit vector (yeah, the crewmen they grabbed coulda probably given them the info for getting to Federation space, but not everybody's good at astrography). A cube is faster than the Enterprise, so what would've taken the Enterprise 2+ years could only be 1 1/2 for the Borg. Puts them right on time for BoBW, and it would make sense to send 1 ship to test the defenses. Best of Both Worlds (TNG, season 3-4): The Borg finally make it to Federation space, and start nailing colonies and ships again. They run into the Enterprise, and kidnap Picard. He gets them through the Federation armada, but they lose at Earth. First Contact: The Borg come back, with 1 ship. They made it all the way with 1 ship last time, but got out-smarted. No reason to send multiple ships next time, the muscle wasn't the issue. If it hadn't been for Picard's inside knowledge, they would have won again. But they did come with a backup plan, time travel. Not something you want to do flippantly, as Voyager proved in Year of Hell. But it'll do in a pinch. As for that transwarp conduit opening near Earth, it make sense to me that the Borg would NOT use it. In a military campaign, the goal isn't just to take the enemies' capital. You need to destroy their army first. If not, you become the besieged instead of the sieger. So the Borg come in farther out, give the Federation time to assemble its fleet so it can be destroyed, THEN take Earth. And the Borg are arrogant, though not entirely without cause. As somebody above said (I don't remember which), confidence vs. arrogance is splitting hairs. The difference in my book is that confidence allows for being wrong, even if unlikely. Arrogance doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Given the viral nature of the Borg, your assumption of convention military strategy seems foolish. The Borg getting a foothold on Earth would be a major victory. There wouldn't be any point in the Federation besieging Earth - it would be a Borg world if they had half a chance. This is why the Borg motivation seems incongruous. First it's just the technological and biological etc. Then it's assimilation but you'd think logically they'd try assimilating everything that moves, if only for additional drones. Of course, the Borg seem to have been weakened year on year... if they have a series set after Voyager the Borg will probably be fighting a losing battle against the Ferengi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenhank Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I think the big change in the Borg is ultimately caused by humanity. As we've heard so often in Star Trek, humanity is a unique species amongst all the others. Humans have special qualities, and an unpredictable nature, not found in any other known species in the galaxy. Hell, even the Q are afraid of humanity, because they know that we have the potential to surpass even them. When the Borg discovered this peculiar distinctiveness, they became obsessed. Without understanding humanity, they cannot attain perfection. As such, they abandoned old methods, and took on a mind-set of assimilation at any cost. This made them reckless, panicky, and, in the end, stupid. They brought about their own downfall, with their obsessive persuit of total understanding of mankind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Given that pretty much all other Trek races can be described in one word or less, that humans are "special" isn't that surprising. Of course, I'd have thought that the qualities that would help humanity surpass the Q would be meaningless if humanity was assimilated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenhank Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Well, that, I think, is what is driving the Borg so insane. They've assimilated humans, but it didn't help. So, they tried a new approach: a willing human. Maybe THAT was the key. But, no dice. So, they try assimilating the entire human race. They fail. I don't think they know WHAT to do about us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mav Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 Given that pretty much all other Trek races can be described in one word or less' date=' that humans are "special" isn't that surprising. Of course, I'd have thought that the qualities that would help humanity surpass the Q would be meaningless if humanity was assimilated.[/quote'] Even assimilated, humans still have that "special"ness. Look at 7 of 9. Minus the hot blonde in a skin tight suit, here is human who was taken into the Borg as a child, grew up with them, then suddenly "freed" from their grasp. Over time she regained her humanity. Look at Hugh, it only took a few days for him to begin to develop his independantness, friendship and concern for other lifeforms. Being Borg is a reversable process. As long as there are humans to help those recover from being Borg then it's not so much an issue of not living up to what the Q believe us to eventually become but just a matter of time to over come the obstacle set into us (being assimilated) and then move on from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 That was something I hated about "I, Borg". The notion that one could essentially be rehabilitated from being a mindless drone. It's just a lot easier for me to accept that writers have this notion that assuming that humans are some wonderful and special creation... because that's a lot more flattering than having Race X come along and say "Oh, you humans - you don't even have souls. Never amount to much." That said, I do tend to loathe humanity more than is probably healthy. Anyway - if the Borg weren't just hopeless cartoon baddies these days, all they'd do would be send a nanobot warhead to earth, cloaked and a few thousand others to all federation worlds. To hit simultaneously, then moping up a bunch of ships without any support would be cake... of course, that could never happen because it would mean the Borg would win. Surely I can't be the only person who thinks that it's boring that somehow the good guys pull through EVERY time only because they have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Personally I think Voyager and Enterprise both suffered from some abysmal writing' date=' horrible casting and generally just not being all that good. That's just an opinion though and I'd never assume that it was definitive.[/quote'] I could say the same thing about this thread ;) c4 :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I think the big change in the Borg is ultimately caused by humanity. As we've heard so often in Star Trek' date=' humanity is a unique species amongst all the others. Humans have special qualities, and an unpredictable nature, not found in any other known species in the galaxy. Hell, even the Q are afraid of humanity, because they know that we have the potential to surpass even them. When the Borg discovered this peculiar distinctiveness, they became obsessed. Without understanding humanity, they cannot attain perfection. As such, they abandoned old methods, and took on a mind-set of assimilation at any cost. This made them reckless, panicky, and, in the end, stupid. They brought about their own downfall, with their obsessive persuit of total understanding of mankind.[/quote'] I agree. In the EP Dark Frontier - part 2 (EP: 5x16) the Borg Queen told Seven Of Nine that it was no mistake she (7of9) was on Voyager. The Borg had "allowed" her to be liberated by Voyager. She was there to be a "link" between the Borg Collective and humanity. To be an "individual" but still a Borg. The queen hoped this would help her to better understand, and by way of understanding, more easily assimilate humanity. c4 B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destra Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 It's simple. By sending ONE cube to assimilate Earth they aren't wasting many resources. In fact they probably always send just one cube to assimilate a species. The federation defended itself against the attack but never attempted to seek out and destroy the Borg, so they're not really much of a threat to the Borg. Hence they don't want to waste resources on sending multiple cubes filled with Borg just to assimilate ONE species that isn't even posing a real threat to them. That is until the Voyager ending where Janeway kicked the space-time continuum in the crotch by traveling back and uploading a virus to the Borg network which severely crippled them. This now obviously makes the Federation a threat, which would explain why in Star Trek: Armada 2 (which is set after Nemesis I believe) the Borg are sending a mass invasion force into the Alpha Quadrant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mav Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 I think the big change in the Borg is ultimately caused by humanity. As we've heard so often in Star Trek' date=' humanity is a unique species amongst all the others. Humans have special qualities, and an unpredictable nature, not found in any other known species in the galaxy. Hell, even the Q are afraid of humanity, because they know that we have the potential to surpass even them. When the Borg discovered this peculiar distinctiveness, they became obsessed. Without understanding humanity, they cannot attain perfection. As such, they abandoned old methods, and took on a mind-set of assimilation at any cost. This made them reckless, panicky, and, in the end, stupid. They brought about their own downfall, with their obsessive persuit of total understanding of mankind.[/quote'] Wouldn't the entire escapade with Hugh put that out the window? Maybe they found a way to "contain" the reasons for individuality spreading among the Borg but in Descent parts 1 & 2 we learn how not only did individuality spread it brought a form of chaos to the Borg to the point of where they couldn't even function the basics of their Cube such as helm control. Hugh even went as far to mention that many starved to death, for whatever reasons. If it was a plan of the Queen to use this as a device to help enable smoother, faster, eaiser assimilation of humans I cannot see how, we'd still resist and we'd still have to be taken by force. I agree. In the EP Dark Frontier - part 2 (EP: 5x16) the Borg Queen told Seven Of Nine that it was no mistake she (7of9) was on Voyager. The Borg had "allowed" her to be liberated by Voyager. She was there to be a "link" between the Borg Collective and humanity. To be an "individual" but still a Borg. The queen hoped this would help her to better understand, and by way of understanding, more easily assimilate humanity. c4 B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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