Carnifex Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Ok,... Ground rules folks.... this subject has inspired some very definate opinions in some people and is likely to continue in such a manner.. HOWEVER we are all mature individuals (in our own ways :p) and are capable of taking, on the chin, a bit of verbal hairpulling BUT if you are the least bit insecure in your beliefs or are offended by strong opinion, then for YOUR sake, PLEASE do not read any further I would ask that this thread not be locked as regardless of our opinions on the subject it does no good whatsoever to deny that the differences exist... if this kind of thread is not considered suitable for a discussion forum, then may I suggest that it be left open in Rura Penthe. Thank You... (...anyway I never got a chance to reply to the last comment as when I hit post, it came up LOCKED! ;)) My reply..... dude, read the the othter thread. h no' date=' you misunderstand. I did not mean segregation, I meant euthanasia.[/quote'] uhmmm i could be mistaken but dont they use euthanasia to put down Dogs in Eruope? b/c they use it here in the States. @_@ You seem to be a tad more that 'hard headed' about it... however I sincerely hope that the god that is described in the bible does exist, because when you finally shuffle off your mortal form and arrive at the pearly gate, the very next thing god will say to you after he say "'Welcome, My Son.." is "'You're a bit narrow minded. aren't you..!" you are soo open minded that your brains fell out. Broken the paradigm an example must be set. The bible isn't simply amiguous, it is riddled with inconsistancies and contradiction! BTW: You are aware that the bible that you hold in so much faith was writen by a corrupted organization that meant it as a form of population control AND that it has been reinterpretated and retranslated HUNDREDS of times... I doubt very much that even one word in a thousand is the same as that which the original author wrote... AND EVEN HE DIDN'T KNOW god. Its called faith, i feel sorry that you have none. but in the sick world we live in moderated, i do hope with every last breath that there is something better at the end. So I am sorry that you dont feel jesues, bu tstop attacking me about it. I posted here b/c of the last few post on the Religion thread attacked me. I dont need you here to do that too. So back off moderated. "I AM standing up for my beliefs, or rather lack off them, AS IS MY RIGHT to do so... AND WHO ARE YOU to call ANY of your god's creations 'less than human'?!?!? HOW DARE YOU make assumptions that we are not all as your god intended us to be..! (and YES.. you did talk about killing someone!!) " GOD HIM SELF SAID THAT THE MUSIMS WHERE LESS THAN HUMAN! OMG!!!! and i spoke about killing a man for trying to force me to change life styles, AS IS MY RIGHT!! TO DEFEND MYSELF!! and what the ghetto is wrong with calling you "euros" >_>? you call us americans, hell ppl have called us @$$ holes, so calm the freak down! "peace-out" ;) YOU moderated, I did read the other thread and I contributed to it too. synexo's comment was hardly serious, anyone with a rudimentary grasp of the engilsh language could tell that, whereas your comment on the other hand was fully stated and meant as serious. This....."Broken the paradigm an example must be set.".. doesn't even make any sense, please if you wish to attempt to justify your unjustifiable position then at least make sure that your moderated are fully formed. It's called faith... I have a newsflash for your it's called moderated... are you even unable to see the inherent contradictions in the belief of 'an all loving god' who is quite happy for his believers to commit violence AND/OR exclude from society those who do not believe as YOU do?? KILLING ANYONE IS WRONG. FULL STOP. No honest christian, REGARDLESS, of the provocation would advocate such a barbaric and inhumane act!!! For you to, I can categorically state THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE THE FIRST IDEA OF WHAT CHRISTIANITY ACTUALLY MEANS, and that you are following your own, random, moderated of what YOU think it means to be a christian (and by the way god wouldn't thank you for that!) As for you being quite happy to follow a god that would make beings less than human, so that his followers had someone to feel superior over...... I feel nothing but sadness for your moderated life and disdane for such a petty god. (BTW: please provide chapter, verse and edition of the bible in which that ridiculous comment was made) And you calling me a 'euro' has the same connotation as me calling you a 'yank', both have attached to them a patronising and less that polite air. Yes, they can also be use with less of a barb, however taken in context with the rest of the post I am left with no reason to not to assume that you meant for the barb to be intact. And as for moderated (and the word is Pagan), please in your next moderated include what YOU think the word Pagan means.... (and I'll know if you have looked it up!!) TEXT WAS MODERATED TO COMPLY WITH POSTING RULES THAT YOU CLEARLY HAVE NOT READ!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenhank Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 (BTW: please provide chapter, verse and edition of the bible in which that ridiculous comment was made) He said the Pope said it. The Pope, being infallible, speaks for God himself. I should probably, at this point, explain what I have come in my (far too many) years to understand about faith, as it may just help reduce some of this anger on both sides. First of all, when you believe in something, you do so to the exclusion of all other beliefs. To put it simply, if you believe Jesus is the son of God, and all the other things it says in the New Testament, then you also believe all other religious beliefs are wrong. Not valid. Wrong. Entirely. Absurd, even. That is the nature of belief. Second, a belief in something makes it true. For you. One thing that is very easy to forget is that religious people aren't saying "I think this sounds good", or "it makes some sense to me"...what they are saying is "this is the truth. The absolute truth. Anything which contradicts this is therefor untrue." That bit is what makes it so hard for the religious to understand science. They think that we "believe" in science, in the same way they believe in (whatever. Usually Pat Robertson.), and that as such, we are unwilling to look at the "truth" (which, by the way, all religious people see as completely obvious. Their particular brand of "truth" isn't just the ONLY truth, it is the most easily come-by "truth"). If somebody believes the Pope speaks for God, and is then infallible (because a Pope said so), then that is their belief. Anything any Pope has ever said is therefor true, to the exclusion of all contradictory views or opinions. That means that proving the believer wrong is going to do nothing. You could provide absolute proof that what they believe is wrong, but they will still believe it, because, well...that is the nature of faith. You believe something to be true, no matter how impossible it is. I could go on and on like this, but I think I may just have gotten across the point I am trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnifex Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Yep, I got all that...hope someone else did too. ;) Just for clarification.. I'm not in the least bit angry.. in fact these thread have been nothing but fun from beginning to end, as for anyone being convinced to the contrary of their respective opinions I'm pretty much aware that won't happen, however I think the real race is to see if someone can come up with a point to which the other has no answer. But yeah... good points. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetsuoShima Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 MODERATION: This will be my final civilised remark on the matter, I will bear with you and not lock the thread, but by whatever you hold dear, YOU WILL ABIDE BY THE FORUM RULES!!!! (see first post) If I return to this topic and find that you have not, it will be send to Rura Penthe indeed, where it will become irretrievable and unpostable! As a reminder: Updated April 15' date=' 2005[/b'] 1. Stay on topic -- Please try to keep your responses to threads on topic. You are welcome to create 'off-topic' and random threads in "General Discussion" for all your off-topic comments. 2. No foul, obscene, or demeaning language. -- Let's try to keep the site 'family friendly'. Also, please refrain from making comments regarding race, religion, sexual orientation, or web browser usage. Some people can be very offended if they are told that Firefox is a crappy browser. 3. The Ranking system does not imply any sort of authority -- The ranking system is designed to show how active a user is in the forums, but in no way does it give that user any special privledge or authority. Please do not "brag" or attack based on rank. Doing so will result in posts being deleted, demotion, or a complete removal of the ranking system 4. Please be kind and curtious in your responses -- If we are to build a community, let us be helpful and kind to those asking for our assistance. 5. If you attribute a quote to another user, you must only use their words, and not edit the post to distort their meaning. Spoofed posts, which attribute words to somebody who didn't post them will be deleted. -- It can be deceptive and hurtful. Please don't do this, even if the urge to parody another user is overpowering. Using a ... snip ... is in good taste when editing a quote for brevity. Please remember the words of our beloved Captain and philosopher, Jean-Luc Picard: "We seek to better ourselves" Let us build a little of our own 24th century utopia here! Especially 2 and 4 are to be considered here!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlvsi Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Yahoo, I too posted and was told locked. Thanks Carnifex. :D What I wanted to answer was whether I had heard of the crusades. My answer:- Yep They were started because the Pope and his authority were being questioned, so what did he do. He asked all God fearing men to go kill all Muslims in the East, Germany and Spain as well as heretics and schismatics who threatened Catholic unity and Christian lay powers who opposed the papacy. In return they were granted remission of punishment for all sin and an assurance of direct entry into heaven. To me it seems that he was challenged, and bribed the medieval knights to go fight for him, not his god. Lest we forget that the medieval aristocracy would often pay people to pray on their behalf, as well as make `donations` to the church in return for entry into heaven. :thinking: Apparently in 1099 when they captured Jerusalem, they massacred its inhabitants. Doesn`t sound like a forgiving religion to me! And if I remember my history they looted all the way. I realise that things have moved on a bit since then, but what happens with this new Pope. If I heard right when he got the job, he is against all sorts of things that his predecessor was a bit more open to. Although I`m not Catholic (far from it) I did admire Pope John Paul, I respected him as a person because I thought that he tried his best to be modern and peaceful. I do not know all that he did, but what I saw was okay. What will happen with Benedict, will he start the crusades up again? What are his views on Gays/Lesbians? We can only watch and wait, with the following that he has, he wields some awesome power. I`m not angry either, more amused. B) My Dad taught me a neat trick for when Jehovahs Witnesses called at the door. If you actually stand there and talk to them with an understanding of religion you can get them talking themselves into contradiction. After this you can almost guarantee they will never call again. It`s worked several times for me so far at several addresses. :) By the way queenhank, you`re a fountain of knowledge aren`t you. ;) Thanks TetsuoShima. We`ll be good. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenhank Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 By the way queenhank, you`re a fountain of knowledge aren`t you. When you spend as much time practicing the Socratic Method as I have, you figure out a thing or two. At least, I hope so! What are his views on Gays/Lesbians? Well, he was a Nazi, and I seem to remember pink triangles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 To be honest, the Crusades were more a case of misunderstanding and political oppurtunism. The Byzantine Empire had been taking a thrashing in Asia minor at the hands of the Seljuk turks. So Kommenos turned to the Pope for help, the letter he sent was pretty much the starting point for the first Crusade. Urban II used it as an oppurtunity to retake the holy land - even though that wasn't really what Kommenos wanted. There isn't any doubt that the Church benefited immensely from this though. One need only look at the wealth accrued by the holy orders formed to see that. That and there were a lot of nobles sitting on their hands, looking for a good fight. Thinking about it, the notion isn't so disimiliar to the military industrial complex a certain superpower has. Eerie. But the ultimate product of the Crusades was the supreme irony - dedicated Christian military organisations. Pretty strange for a religion that's supposed to be peaceful. Good old double-think, eh? Maybe pink triangles will help gays and lesbians hook up - that would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yudd Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 i always find it intresting that the three Religion of the book have regarding their belief of life after death. The Jews believe they are the chosen ones and only they will enter heaven unconditionally THe Catholics believe all their sins were forgiven by Jesus' death so they will enter heaven unconditionally I dont know enough about the other divisions in Christiany to know what they believe The Muslims believe that their good deads and bad deeds will be measured on a scale. IF they commited more bad deeds, they will burn in Hell for the appropriate time allotted for their disgretions and then be allowed to enter heaven. I know sucide nullifies these conditions in these religions (most dont agree with the permission to allow suicide bombing fatwa in Islam) So then why does everyone wnat the longest life possible. In certain conditions of never ending poverty and destitution, one might want to passover so he can live peacefully in the netherworld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mateya Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 So then why does everyone wnat the longest life possible. In certain conditions of never ending poverty and destitution, one might want to passover so he can live peacefully in the netherworld A long life is needed/required to gather as much good deeds as possible imho :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnifex Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Good Grief.... my censored post has been made to looks a hundred times worse than it actually was...( I think I'd like an adenum by the mod stating that no swearing was involved in the post!!)...Anyways... @ Queenhank... Well' date=' he was a Nazi, and I seem to remember pink triangles...[/quote'] Are you refering to the current pope with this comment? Really, I didn't know that..wow :stare: Any chance of a reference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenhank Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 http://atheism.about.com/od/benedictxvi/i/RatzingerNazi.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 just want to see how it feels to have the POWER! Moderated by Maverick ooooh that gave me shivers :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlvsi Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Thanks queenhank, most enlightening. ;) I must admit that I am interested in this because I have family that unfortunatley had links with the SS. My Grandmother is Austrian and told me once how, during the war, her family (except one) fled to the hills in protest. Apparently her brother was in the SS and went to Dresden just before the Lancasters bombed it, of which my other side Grandfather was a rear gunner. They could only assume that he was killed as no-one ever heard from him again. And no his name wasn`t Schicklgruber! B) Anyway back on topic. If Pope Benedict was forced into the Nazi youth then I can understand that, but as the web page mentions, he was probably aware of some of the attrocities. How does this affect the judgement of the leader of the Catholic faith, and emmisary to God. I`m all for forgiveness for past transgressions but still.... It is a very grey area. hmmmm.... Maybe we should start a Religion of the Socratic Method? (although probably is one already) BTW what`s this about pink triangles (naive)? :thinking: Also perhaps, so that we do not offend certain forum members, we should bring in our thoughts on other religions. I like the Buddhism idea of Karma, and not just because of "My Name Is Earl"lol. I, like many others have probably noticed occurances of it in my life. Doing positive things and I have been `rewarded`. I have always tried to do what is best for the circumstances, even if it didn`t seem so to others. I am also facinated by `Paganism` the whole lot from druids to greek myths. They have a more open feel to them and are more encompassing of mankind and nature itself, and not just a select few pias folk. Can`t go without mentioning Yin & Yang, although I have adapted it for my avatar. Things are never just black or white, there is always grey. Just like in Physics + positive charge, - negative charge and +/- no charge. Being Agnostic, I would like to take all religions, remove the narrowmindedness and use which parts are actually applicable to life. Most faiths have parts which are positive that can be used in daily life. It is not so much belief in faith, but rather a holistic view of the universe and all that is within. Lets have some thoughts. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnifex Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 BTW what`s this about pink triangles (naive)? :thinking: The Nazi regime made jews and blacks wear blue triangles and gays wear pink ones..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragons Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 My answer would be to ban all religions as they cause the world nothing but grief, as a true sci-fi fan/geek I can't believe that there is a place for something that is based on 'faith' - "Just the facts Mam" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostShadow Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I am not gonna jump into this, having two threads on this topic is enough for me, go find another lacky. And its nice to see that the MOD's let this go on when in two threads about this topic rules where broken. ;) nice job constable "peace-out" ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p3master Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 It´s called faith I hate christian people that says that i dont have faith. I do have faith. I have faith in the human race that they some day stop killing each other. I hope for a world without any murder. So then why does everyone want the longest life possible. In certain conditions of never ending poverty and destitution, one might want to passover so he can live peacefully in the netherworld. Because when you get older you get moore afraid of death. It comes the time when you wish that you could live longer. No one wish to cease to exist when you die except me and probably others people to. I think thats wishful thinking that you will live after you die. What i write in this post is only what i believe in. When i read the bible i couldnt believe what horrible stories there was. 1. I found out that "god" is a mass murderer. "When here flooded the world to build a new one","Noaks ark" 2. I found out that "god" is a sadist muderer. "Well he is all powerful and all knowing god, He should know what would happen to his own son "Jesus". He let people torture his own son. 3. I found out that I must "obey" his wishes no matter what. "I can have other "gods" or believes" Then i wondered that what was the differens between "GoD" and "Satan". Answers: 1. Well i never hear Satan mass murder non believers or other religious people. 2. Well Satan was a sadist so that they have in common. 3. I can believe in a better world creator that him or have a own idea how things work. He wants me to be ignorant and stupid. In hell i would at least have my own thoughts. I have read other religions as well but i cant believe them. They dont make any sense to me. Here is what i believe in: I have thought out this on my own. I have added inresting believable things that i have heard from other people. I believe in the truth not in speculations and how it could be. Here it is: I believe that the universum, the world and all the living thing in it was created by by mere accident. I believe that everything works at random. There is no higher being that is controling univers everything happen at random. I believe that there is nothing after we die. We only will fade away and be remember by the living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 MOD NOTE: This thread is being locked and moved to Rura Penthe. Any problems with that - PM the forum owner. c4 :thinking: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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