ORI: villains or parable

[Amnot Borg]

I've been kind of wondering if the ORI appearance this season isn't just a new villain but a way for the writers to present views about the effect of religious intolerance in the modern world. It seems to be on the increase lately and this does get people to think about it. Forcing your own views on others isn't going to make your views accepted on friendly terms.

 

Anyone have comments? Are the ORI just villains or a parable story to teach us?

 

Is this the wrong forum area for a discussion such as this? It is based on thoughts about the ORI.

[Dish]

Anyone have comments? Are the ORI just villains or a parable story to teach us?

 

Is this the wrong forum area for a discussion such as this? It is based on thoughts about the ORI.

 

Lol, cool with me anyway. I think it's definitely a combo of the 2. It was pretty obvious that the SGC needed new enemies cos the Goa'ould (is that the right apostrophe-ation??) were going down big-time. They probably figured that after 8 years and the departure of Jack, that well of stories was drying up. Insert new, seemingly all-powerful enemy. These guys are way freakier than Anubis' little almost-Ascended lab creation from a season or 2 ago. Being of Gaelic blood, I also love the idea of Merlin as an Ancient! The Swede in me happens to have a soft spot for Thor, too. What a cutie.

 

ANYWAY, I think the whole show could be construed as a bit of a parable. The whole question of what makes a god divine has been in play since Ra. The Asgard themselves made (make?) themselves out to be gods, but only so that less developed cultures will accept their wisdom and protection. The Goa'ould are the classic example of committing violent acts in the name of religion. The Ori are just a new, vastly more powerful and organized, and (I think) more glaring example of this.

 

Hmm. What I deduce from the Ori is this message: Blindly following religion, not thinking for yourself, and oppressing all other opposing views will get you nowhere, no matter what you are promised and what temporary happiness you are provided. Though they promise Ascension for obedience, none of their followers receive it because they are so caught up in making OTHERS believe through violence and threat and propaganda, they completely fail to do the soul-searching required to reach Ascension in reality. The subjects also assume that if they follow like good little sheep all the tough work will be done for them. As anyone who knows anything about Hinduism, meditation, yoga, Buddhism, etc. etc. knows, nirvana and inner peace cannot EVER be found by taking the easy road. The only absolute truth is that there IS no absolute truth, and it is only through dedication and years (lifetimes?) of work that we will find enlightenment. I once read that all positive spiritual quests are an infinite # of mountain paths; all take different turns, some are steeper in places or longer than others, but all are arduous and all end up at the same summit.

 

As far as religious intolerance... blah. It baffles me in this day & age that we are seeing *more* oppression than 10 years ago. Why is it such a hard concept that we are a world of many faiths which should all be given equal credence? It seems pretty likely the Ori were made to accentuate this issue. 'You will worship only our god because ours is the only one. You don't need to *think* about it, just worship blindly and do as we say and you will be rewarded. Refuse, and you will be smote down.' Sound familiar?

 

I'm not trying to bash Christianity. I grew up in a Catholic family and went to a Catholic school which was remarkably accepting of other faiths. Having quit the Church while still enrolled, I had very nice debates with my Scripture teacher of all people. My problem is with those who quote scripture out the wazoo, and top it off with a good ol' "Accept Jesus or rot in Hell!" It's like, can't we just agree to disagree?

 

On a related but slightly more blasphemous-to-Christians note, anybody heard of the 'Jesus myth'? The idea is that Jesus and really all of the Biblical characters have huge similarities to Egyptian, Greek, Babylonian, etc. mythology. I believe Noah's flood was covered in the Epic of Gilgamesh. Now (offense alert) it could be construed that Jesus and the Bible are just another set of mythology, just like any of the others we look at as fairy tales. HOWEVER, in the same light it could be said that the Bible is just another retelling of actual divine events with names and locations changed in order to mesh better with the culture(s) that wrote it. If this interests you, check out the (wicked pissa) doc "The God Who Wasn't There" (www.thegodmovie.com, or you can get it at Amazon.) If this interests you, I highly recommend it. If you're offended... sorry. I kinda warned you. I'm not actively trying to piss all over anyone's altar or anything, but sometimes freedom of speech also means freedom to be offended. While I certainly don't WANT to be flamed, I'll defend to the death your right to flame me if you want...

 

Wow. I went from "The Ori on Stargate are cool villains" to "Jesus didn't exist." I'm so proud of my ability to ramble. B)

 

Contraversially yours,

Dish

[S0V13T]

Thats a really good question. The writers are obviouslly drawing a lot of material from the darker side of Christanity's past with the charecters of the Ori like:

 

- Burning Heretics to death (as seen in 9x03, I think it was)

- Suppressing scientific progress, and declaring 'tinkers' as heretics.

- Depecting the Priors as all powerful missionaries, that read scripture to convert the masses.

- having a "Convert or Kill" policy, as seen in the Spanish Inquisition.

 

(I've been obessed with point form lately)

[GorunNova]

Heh... I think more people should bash on their beliefs. That only leads to stronger belief, and what breaks is probably worth discarding.

 

Yeah, the Ori do seem to be a hit at all the religious intolerance that's going on now... and yes, just as Dish said, it's increasing. It really surged around, well, 9/11... lots of people went to find religion to cope with what happened, and now we're suffering the backlash from it.

[Amnot Borg]

Most currently in the news has been the bashing of Muslim faith with European cartoons of their Prophet. I, personally see it as "in bad taste" cartooning instead of drastic anti-Muslim propaganda. However, the three main western religions(Islam, Christianity, Judaism) have a very long history of bashing each other and any other religions that attempt to compete with them. Being of a somewhat pagan belief structure myself, I see both sides and wonder why people are killing themselves and others over cartoons instead of bitching about them being in bad taste.

 

*now, back to the ORI portion of the topic*

from what I have seen of them this season since they were introduced, it definitely seems to be an intentional parable of the writers to get people thinking of how ALL or MOST modern people think of religion and relate to it without regard to others ideas of religion. As you said, Dish, we need to agree to disagree and stop with all the sword waving. As GorunNova said, there are reasons to bash beliefs and it's to test them and see if they are viable or not. That doesn't mean you have to actually start bashing people as well as ideas or beliefs. As S0V13T mentioned, there are similarities to Christianity's past of persecution included in the ORI makeup but I assume it hasn't been the only religion to do that. Jews seem to have had it rough wherever they went.

 

*darnit, I went back to the real world*

 

So far, no one has flamed anyone and I do hope it doesn't come to that. Open minds and discussions open windows of possibilities.

[Mav]

It's not about religious intolerance, it's fact.

 

Think about it this way, dictionary.com lists a "god" as

 

A being conceived as the perfect' date=' omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.[/quote']

 

Now for me, humans classified a god or deity as perfect right? We also gave meaning to perfect, in various forms or meanings. A "perfect" god, is a just god. A being of ultimate mercy and justice. The Ori as proven, will kill those who do not believe or walk their path. That is far from merciful. Cold blooded murder is a long walk from justice and understanding from a divine being, set down by the definitions we as humans have created.

 

I'm a simple minded person. Really, it doesn't take alot to confuse me or throw my mind into a boggle. But even I know right from wrong, and while I may not believe in a religion I do believe that the very basics of life itself can be adhered too by all people in all walks of life, including gods and deities.

 

Sure it seems like the Ori may push things on people and hell it may even seem like the Tauri and Earth/SGC try to influence our ways on others. Either way, a being labeled a "god" (supposed or not) has no more right to take a life, as I or you do. How can someone force apon others a way of thinking if it's a simple building block of humanity?

 

It's like saying "I refuse to drink water" but every beverage known to man has to some degree a level of water as it's ingredients. Characters and planets may worship the Ori, the Goa'uld or even the Asgard, that still does not justify them taking lives, destroying worlds. Imagine if say, Hitler was actually immortal, and had divine powers. Would it have been ok for him to slaughter most of Europe in that particular war? A life claimed is still a life claimed.

 

Of course when religion comes into the equation this is where most people disagree. Devote christians will say that if god chose to take a life, it would be "gods will" or "their time to go". Yet if a human takes a life, its bad, its wrong. The difference is one supposedly has powers of the cosmos at his finger tips, the other is a mere mortal.Its not about what you can do with your abilities its what you choose. In my eyes no god will ever be justified in taking an innocent life, just as the Ori are not nor are the Goa'uld.

[Dish]

Sure it seems like the Ori may push things on people and hell it may even seem like the Tauri and Earth/SGC try to influence our ways on others. Either way' date=' a being labeled a "god" (supposed or not) has no more right to take a life, as I or you do. How can someone force apon others a way of thinking if it's a simple building block of humanity?[/quote']

 

Ooh. Good point. It does seem like the SGC/Tauri try to push our ways on others, huh? Yeah, they do seem to be right most of the time, cos after all they're the heroes. And they can get a little cocky about it from time to time. But I like how every once in a while they meet a more advanced people who can teach them a thing or two. I really liked the Nox episode where they screwed up and went against the Nox's beliefs, thinking that they knew better, and the Nox ended up saving the day. Man, I would *totally* put in a job application with the Nox, but I think I'm a little too attached to my hair-care regimen.

 

So I guess the writers wanted to make the point that, well-intentioned or not, a culture that is (or thinks it is) more powerful should not force their ways on others. It would be easy for the SGC to really push their culture and ways on others, so it's nice to see them realize that and back off when they realize they're being too aggressive. The Ori obviously have neither the good intentions nor the self-restraint. And killing/torture/war etc. carried out simply because one CAN? That's never OK, no matter HOW powerful one is. "It's God's will" my shapely hindquarters...

 

Dish

[Tenebrae]

SG-1 is full of thinly veiled religious references - one might think that was par for the course after the SGC has been battling aliens pretending to be gods (and indeed allying itself with them) for so long.

 

Most sci-fi shows cover this kind of ground but sg-1 has decided to flog the dead horse the most.

 

The Ori are even more in your face because they actually do kind of have biblical powers and lo and behold perform far more substantial miracles than the Go'auld ever did. Thus far we've had approximations of a plague of locusts and a plague of sores... They've all got Mose staffs.

 

Anyway - yes, there is a nice easy to get morality tale here. Nothing worth having is ever simply given and no belief should ever be forced on anyone... I might be wrong on the first one though. That's pretty much in DIRECT conflict with a lot of Christianity... but then it's always been implied in SG-1 that Ascedance is something that has to be earned.

 

The Nox were nice because - and Star Trek has been guilty of this from the moment of its inception to the present day - they didn't get morally outflanked by the SGC...

[Dish]

SG-1 is full of thinly veiled religious references - one might think that was par for the course after the SGC has been battling aliens pretending to be gods (and indeed allying itself with them) for so long.

 

I've always been eager to see a goa'ould (or maybe Tok'ra or Asgard?) show up and be like, 'Hey, what's up, my name's Jesus.' Is it just me?? I mean, they've used every *other* culture's set of deities, and even Sokar as the devil... not that I think it would ever happen. I'm not as dumb as I look. That's just begging for cancellation. While mooning. And kicking puppies.

 

Anyway, correct me if I'm wrong, but the gods came before the snakeheads perverted their images, non? I mean, the worship of Anubis was already happening, and then Anubis the snake showed up. The legends of the gods were NOT started by the Goa'ould themselves. If that's the case, then it **theoretically** shouldn't be offensive, right? But still the writers take the '10 foot pole' approach. Smart, cos a show about false gods probably doesn't need the oodles of contraversy. No matter how respectfully it's done, people who have never seen the show and won't read the script will just FREAK. But oh well, I can dream.

 

Dish

[Tenebrae]

It would have been funny if someone turned up and said "Yup, I'm Allah - here's my 2nd in command, Mohammed."

 

Secondslater, the price of US flags in the Middle East soar.

[Dish]

Allah would *so* have to be played by a chick.

 

It could be like an episode of the Super Best Friends!

 

Dish

[Amnot Borg]

Unfortunately, none of the three major religion's prophets will probably be portrayed on the show. It's to likely to cause much the same trouble as those cartoons in Europe. People will get very pissed off. Protesting and violence would commence. Bye Bye, Stargate shows. You could check fan-fiction sites and see if they went in those directions, though.