Iran vs the World

[garth]

Well the Middle East is a mess wonder why oh yes USA agreement with Saudi Arabia after 1973 America to the Saudis

"we need oil or the USSR will win in Vietnam"

Saudis "We want Israel to go nack to its 1967 borders"

USA "Give us the oil to fight and we will remedy the situation"

 

interesting to see how far the US has got with honouring their pledge to Saudi for those enlightened supporters of Israel perhaps one of you could tell me how many times USA has vetoed this at the UN proving they are dishonourable and we wonder why the Arabs don't trust us

Well this topic is certainly good for a laugh, pass the radiation suit.

Have Bush and Blair got to the Space station yet?

[quosego]

 

Maybe if the europeans would like to help their "OFFICAL ALLIES" and support us insetad of impead our march then stuff might actuly go to plan, maybe. I give props to the French and their Nuclear threat to the terrorist. They seem to got the right idea here, lets just see how long they can focus. Seems to me that most Eurpean Countries have an attention span of about 5 min. This war is not even over and when talk about a second war in the middle east with Iran comes up, talk about Korea comes up...

 

 

European trust in the US has faded away the last few years.... The US government tends to bomb first and think later.... That isn't an solution, if there is still hope that his can be resolved peacefully we should wait.... We don't wan't another civil war and ten thousands deaths in the middle east caused by us westerners.

 

Nowadays I hear more anti-americanism from european born people than muslims. I guess that says enough.

[Tenebrae]

If there is anti-American sentiment in Europe - I imagine that's because America acts like such a petulant child when it comes to its foriegn policy. Actually, that's optimistic.

 

America's foreign policy since WW2 has probably had more government toppling and invasion than any other countries in the past 3 centuries. Most of which have left the countries involved devestated, impoverish, under military juntas. Pretty sure there are a fair few people in South America not exactly happy that the CIA allowed military coups specifically to defend American finicial interests.

 

Much like the Middle East is full of people that aren't too chuffed with America invading countries or funding Israel - a nation which enjoys rather generous support from the USA... despite being one of the single biggest violators of UN resolutions.

 

Then of course, there's the fact that the US basically just goes to the UN for a rubber stamp. The EU will be there slogging away at a diplomatic solution, the US will then get bored of waiting for the UN to do something and act unilaterally.

 

Honestly though - the fact my government was complicit in the invasion of Iraq sickens me and shows how far from democracy my country has fallen. America can do what it wants, I'd rather like it to try and not frak the world up anymore than it has done though. All I'm saying is - the British Empire did a much much better job of running the world. 200 years of unprecedented global peace, stability and prosperity.

[cyberbob]

While I agree with most of what you said, the whole thing about the British doing better at running the world...eh...I don't know about that.

 

Why was Ghandi necessary?

 

Invading countries? Tell me why the British were invading Afghanistan as late as the early 70s for their own economic interests.

 

 

I do not think that they did much better. They just didn't have to worry about the media being as efficient as it is today and not like it mattered anyways because the wealth was concentrated enough that nobody who would care had the power to oppose it.

[GhostShadow]

Well, i like to error on the side of caution. I also like to think that War is never inevitable. And Geremany annexed austria before WW2, also hitler broke the treaty of versillies (dont remember how to spell that treaty). They are organizing an army, speaking of plans to blow other countries off the "face of the world". I dont know, i could be wrong, but doesnt it seem a littel like wishful thinking to hope that Iran wont attack anyone.

 

dont get me wronge, war is bad. But it is a nessicary evil. And also i feel that it is our duty, not just the United states, but every one; as good world citizens, to remove the impending Iran nuclear threat before it gets out of hand, before the death toll gets to high. Beacuse believe me, the death toll will be much higher if Iran is allowed Nuclear weapons.

 

It is true that the germans annexed austria, but the allies agreed with that. So yeah if you mean they should have taken their stance right there I agree. But war was inevitable, they just gave the germans some breathing room because they had been terrrorised for so long. But that wasn't what they wanted so it ended up in the second world war.

 

And maybe like in this case, we will just have to hope it won't get to war.... Maybe it'll eventually come to that but I wan't to say that we did everything in our power to make sure it wasn't going to happen.

 

American safety isn't helped by it, because with another invasion there will be a lot more terrrorists.

 

The Allies agreed to nothing. The Allies where not formed at that time. France and GB agreed to let Hitler walk around for a while.

 

As far as more terrorist being created, that is speculation. but then agian this whole senario is hypothetical. I am just saying that we need to take care of this problem before it it gets bigger and no one can contain it with out War. I for one hope that does not happen.

[GhostShadow]

uhmm' date=' ever hear of suicide bombers? they follow the same religion as the majority in Iran... Musilm. They dont care about life, as long as the get to kill a few infidels.[/quote']

 

So you are essentially saying all muslims are suicide bombers. You must be reading the same racist rhetoric as the other americans who would rather see the mafia control US ports than a legitimate middle east based shipping company

 

 

 

Like I have been saying' date=' Green Berets go in first, place some C4 around the nuclear buildings and blow it up with all the scientist inside. That way they will not be able to continue work.[/quote']

 

lets not forget the nuclear fallout that would ensue. The damage would go beyond destroying the facility and killing the scientists.

 

first off, yes. The musim religion scares the hell out of me b/c my friend is musilm. Ok, he is unwilling to accept any new ideas that could be contray to his own religious ideals. He will not even touch anything after it has been handeld by some one who ATE PORK.... now that is his right, but he has to make a scene of it. If you speak about religion to him, he will say "hail Hitler, he had the right idea. Kill the jews".... NO JOKE!. The only reason I even hang around this kid sometimes is b/c we both like Anime.

 

Last year, My sister and i drove an forign exchange student from Iran, home every day. It was dead silent in the car b/c that girl was so anti-american. She hated the Christian Religion, she hated what it stood for, and she respected my sister and I less b/c where are both christian.

 

So yea, say what you want, but from all the musilm ppl i know, i have gotten a negitive conotation from that religion. And i would like to see the ports run by a Mafia rather than some Middel east country, as long as the Mafia is AMERICAN. I dont think that the ports should be watched over by any other nation that america.

 

Also, a nuclear reactor is not as Unstable as you clam. Propaganda might leave you to assume that a bomb would cause nuclear fussion... not true. If you look at the actual building that Nuclear reactors are at, they are very secure. I dont know how it is in Iran, but here in America you can smash a plane into the side of one and it will be fine, no Nuclear explosion. The point is to diable the building and to kill the scientist inside. Effectivly crippilng the Iran nuclear threat for a while.

[Tenebrae]

Oh, cyberbob - I'm not saying that the British Empire was perfect. No, certainly not but it did a great many things... but at the end of the day many peoples rather tend to dislike invading forces. Something the USA has become quite intimately familiar with after... well, a couple of land wars in Asia. At the end of the day though - the British Empire did a lot of good things and that's forgotten in these days where colonialism is seen as a bad thing but what we did, we did for the Empire... at the end of the day, the USA uses that excuse everytime it does something questionable.

 

I should point out to you Ghost Shadow that the USA took, rather a long time to become involved in World War 2. I didn't see any pre-emptive strikes there. There were German U-boats literally visible from the shore and the USA was happy to do NOTHING.

 

More terrorists being created? Not really hypothetical when American has said that the "insurgents" aka terrorists are flooding into Iraq from surrounding countries. That's why there are a whole bunch of troops sitting right next to Syria now. One thing is for sure - the longer it goes on, the more terrorists there will be.

 

It has to be asked Ghost Shadow... just how old are you... I've talked to a few people... and well... Let's just say we weren't overly generous on the digits based on your blinkered vision... but I'd like some confirmation.

[Steveo]

Ghost Shadow -

 

Ignoring your rather basic understanding of foreign policy, which seems to revolve around the US taking action to safeguard everyone else (when the threat isn't even clear or the most pressing of our time) I would like to know how a pre-emptive strike would help the situation in the slightest?

 

Are you seriously advocating the use of a tactical strike to deny the Iranians the use of technology they have every right to, and the throwing out the window treaties that safeguard this right, in a democratic way?

 

Also, let us deal with your complete lack of understanding of nuclear technology. 'Blowing up' a facility and/or reactor may not result in a nuclear explosion one might associate with a nuclear weapon, but does the word 'fallout' hold any meaning for you? I assure you, it's a threat, and one which isn't to be taken lightly.

[Steveo]

Just a point of clarification, I do understand that the destruction os a nuclear falility doesn't necessarily produce high levels of fallout, however, I must stress that without detailed information on the contents of buildings to be destroyed, the likelyhood of dangerous materials being distributed over an isn't too neglegable, and while not as dangerous as a nuclear blast from an atomic weapon by any stretch, materials used in the nuclear industry can still be highly radioactive and of course hazardous to health.

[Tenebrae]

As I said - the USA has provided absolutely no evidence to prove that Iran is developing nuclear weapons... hmm, I wonder any parallels to Iraq?

 

The fact of the matter is that a lack of proof should not and IS NOT grounds to indict Iran.

 

 

[Tenebrae]

My apologies I hadn't read Ghost Shadows latest bigotitude.

 

Were we to take individual people as indicative of a nation... well, there's a special someone here that would make me think of people from the USA as rabid evangelical Christians who wanted nothing more than to eliminate every tiny threat to that nation with the bayonet and not the olive branch.

 

Of course, I'm capable of recoginising that an individual doesn't represent an entire group... which wehn you consider the number of Muslims clocking in at over a billion vs. USA citizens somewhere around 300+ million... well, you can which would be the greater error of judgement. Especially when the fastest growing religion in the USA is Islam.

 

A crusade would go down well, I'm sure. You've got the right pope for it.

[GhostShadow]

Ghost Shadow -

 

Ignoring your rather basic understanding of foreign policy, which seems to revolve around the US taking action to safeguard everyone else (when the threat isn't even clear or the most pressing of our time) I would like to know how a pre-emptive strike would help the situation in the slightest?

 

Are you seriously advocating the use of a tactical strike to deny the Iranians the use of technology they have every right to, and the throwing out the window treaties that safeguard this right, in a democratic way?

 

Also, let us deal with your complete lack of understanding of nuclear technology. 'Blowing up' a facility and/or reactor may not result in a nuclear explosion one might associate with a nuclear weapon, but does the word 'fallout' hold any meaning for you? I assure you, it's a threat, and one which isn't to be taken lightly.

 

no, by all means give them nuclear technology. Plz dont get me wronge. I would just feel safer if we let the Russians set up their reactor and let the russians purify the urnanium. I dont trust the regiem that is in control of Iran, and I will never. They have an agressive attitude towards nighboor countries, and if you put two and two togeter... 1)Nuclear technology; 2) agressive nature; 3)Extereme regiem=BAD

 

( I know some lame person is gonna say, "hey that is exactly what America is" But America has a stable goverment elected by ALL the ppl)

 

But I do not think that Iran should get Nuclear technology on its own, this is not something tha tshould just be brushed off as "they have the RIGHT to do this" or "Why should we mess with their affars". Well folks, I dont know about you, but I dont let kids play with matches or any fire. The risk of danger is WAY to high when you are talking about Nuclear technology.

 

And uhmm.... Why does my age matter? The MOD's on this site hate me with a passion any ways, so I would not put to much faith in their "flights of fancy". They are the ones who said I should to Iraq and step on an American land mine.... so you can just keep pondering for a while, or you can look and find it in one of my post before, but I realized that telling ppl my age gives them a false sence of superiority. But I will tell you one thing, I am not an old fart. I would think that my opinions should be valid either way.

 

There is an old Roman quote; "With knowlage comes wisdom, not age"

[GhostShadow]

My apologies I hadn't read Ghost Shadows latest bigotitude.

 

Were we to take individual people as indicative of a nation... well, there's a special someone here that would make me think of people from the USA as rabid evangelical Christians who wanted nothing more than to eliminate every tiny threat to that nation with the bayonet and not the olive branch.

 

Of course, I'm capable of recoginising that an individual doesn't represent an entire group... which wehn you consider the number of Muslims clocking in at over a billion vs. USA citizens somewhere around 300+ million... well, you can which would be the greater error of judgement. Especially when the fastest growing religion in the USA is Islam.

 

A crusade would go down well, I'm sure. You've got the right pope for it.

 

ok, well I dont know about you, and I really dont care to know about you, but every musilm I have meet or dealt with has been narrow minded, and is on par to the avarage evangelical Christain who is too, willing to die for their religion. And that scares me when the avarge mentality of a religion is as extreme as an evangelical.

 

The fastest growing religion in the grand USofA is Christanity my friend. There may be more immagrants that are musilm, but no, more ppl are becoming Christian or converting.

 

 

EDIT: Look at these sites and tell me I am wornge....

 

Muslim Violence

 

GRAPICH IMAGE WARNING

 

GRAPICH IMAGE WARNING

 

now I realize that not all musims are like this, but all the ones that I know take their religion JUST as seriously...

[GhostShadow]

As I said - the USA has provided absolutely no evidence to prove that Iran is developing nuclear weapons... hmm, I wonder any parallels to Iraq?

 

The fact of the matter is that a lack of proof should not and IS NOT grounds to indict Iran.

 

 

pacifist....

 

they said the same thing about Hitler... "oh he wont bother us"... the signs are right in from of you, and yet you deny the flood.

 

So if you where standing right in front of a damn and you saw cracks in the wall, and a few minutes later you saw a littel water leak from the cracks... would you still wait around for the flipping damn to burst open and engulf you in your ignorance?

 

This is what sepreates us. I am willing to stop something befor eit becomes a problem, you seem to be lazy and want to wait to deal with a problem after it has increased in danger 100 fold.

 

 

[Steveo]

This has little to no paralells with Germany in the 1930's. The world just isn't the same place. We can, with much more ease, monitor the activity of the Iranians than we ever could the Germans. Secondly, there is no evidence to act on, there is no clear threat which you seem to have deluded yourself into thinking there is.

 

Your frankly small minded view of muslims is shocking, and I don't see how you can simply generalise the way you do based soely on your own experiences with a handful of people. Also, you show us these nwes reports and pictures. Did you at any point stop to think that only extreme cases are reported in the news? There are billions of muslims who don't go around blowing people up, if you'd care to check.

 

Finally, you're the only one willing to take action? Don't be so daft, you're just the one willing to run in and blow stuff up without any idea what you're doing. I'd be for intervening if there was any evidence that the Iranians were making a bomb, but by that token we should have hit Isreal as well? Do you agree Isreal should have nuclear weapons?

 

Come down from that high horse up there, it's a position you really don't deserve.

[GhostShadow]

This has little to no paralells with Germany in the 1930's. The world just isn't the same place. We can, with much more ease, monitor the activity of the Iranians than we ever could the Germans. Secondly, there is no evidence to act on, there is no clear threat which you seem to have deluded yourself into thinking there is.

 

Your frankly small minded view of muslims is shocking, and I don't see how you can simply generalise the way you do based soely on your own experiences with a handful of people. Also, you show us these nwes reports and pictures. Did you at any point stop to think that only extreme cases are reported in the news? There are billions of muslims who don't go around blowing people up, if you'd care to check.

 

Finally, you're the only one willing to take action? Don't be so daft, you're just the one willing to run in and blow stuff up without any idea what you're doing. I'd be for intervening if there was any evidence that the Iranians were making a bomb, but by that token we should have hit Isreal as well? Do you agree Isreal should have nuclear weapons?

 

Come down from that high horse up there, it's a position you really don't deserve.

 

NO parralles? there is the same underlinging factor of the world on the brink of war. what America decieds to do in the next year will determin forgin policy for us. I rahter that American forign policy be to protect american citizens before they are killed in the masses.

 

And I am Narrow minded? no, I am sorry I disagree. I understand their position. I too take my religion seriously. I respcet the the Musilm religion even though I do not fully understand it. But this thread is not about my particualr view on a single religion. This is about Iran agianst the world, and how the country should be delt with.

 

Dont extend the thread mandate to personaly attack me. I may be the only one on THIS site willing to take action, but this is a very small community comapired to other Fourms I vist, and interact similar situations with. There are plenty of others who do agree with me, so your approval of my opinion is not needed.

 

I dont know if you realize the ammount of danger is in this situation. Ya'll seem willing to just brush this off, and HOPE TO GOD they do not develop Nukes and HOPE TO GOD they do dont use them....

 

Not to go preaching or anything but I know my God well enough to know that he is not gonna seperate the clouds and come down to earth in a shinning ray of sunlight and rid the world of all evil. No, He can only guid us, and I do HOPE TO GOD that you are right, that they do not build nukes and use them. But there is still that lingering fact that Iran does not have the nicest track record.

 

I do realize that thoes are Islamo facist ppl. But you know what scares me the most? Have you seen the beheading Of Nick Berg? Where Islamo facist captured a Jewish american Citizen who was reporting in Iraq, they took him to a room. Tourtured him, and then Be-headed him on camera. I saw that movie, I read teh transcrips of waht the terrorist where saying in the backround. One of them said;

 

"I do this for Aliha"....

[cyberbob]

I am sorry but I still have to disagree with your statements about the British empire.

 

Long before the USA was even in the picture the British empire was killing entire tribes of Natives in the Americas. After the Portugese had their way with all of West, South, and East Africa in the 16th century - the British went around and did even worse to that continent. I honestly can't say that I feel that the British empire did anybody much good.

 

If you need anything for proof - look at Africa. They are the perfect example of how colonialism is NEVER good for anything (outside of taking what is not yours). This is not to say that the US is any better but uh...yea....British colonialism....not so good.

[Centurion]

Well, I have to confess some of the previous comments are really surprising to me given what is still going on in Iraq. But if the Americans really want to invade Iran next, then, by all means, stop barking and go for it... Indeed, the Bush administration must be thrilled over the prospect since it would solve the current popularity issue.

[quosego]

ok, well I dont know about you, and I really dont care to know about you, but every musilm I have meet or dealt with has been narrow minded, and is on par to the avarage evangelical Christain who is too, willing to die for their religion. And that scares me when the avarge mentality of a religion is as extreme as an evangelical.

 

The fastest growing religion in the grand USofA is Christanity my friend. There may be more immagrants that are musilm, but no, more ppl are becoming Christian or converting.

 

 

EDIT: Look at these sites and tell me I am wornge....

 

Muslim Violence

 

GRAPICH IMAGE WARNING

 

GRAPICH IMAGE WARNING

 

now I realize that not all musims are like this, but all the ones that I know take their religion JUST as seriously...

 

You do know how this is called; propaganda.... You show shocking images to proof that some muslims are assholes.... I'm now going to proof that some americans are assholes....

 

Graphic content

 

Graphic content

 

The result we now have proofed that some americans are assholes and some muslims are assholes.... Not the one-sided some muslims are assholes.

 

To achieve full understanding of something you must see the entire picture...

 

Ass for muslims being narrwominded so are pro-iraq/iran war people, you also take your religion/thoughts very seriously....

[garth]

I am sorry but I still have to disagree with your statements about the British empire.

 

I honestly can't say that I feel that the British empire did anybody much good.

 

I agree after Wilberforce abolished Slavery we should have been thankful there were still non colonial Africans willing to sell their Brethren to the USA as Slaves.

 

pre Pearl Harbour and after Dunkirk there weren't many people outside the empire and its territories fighting the Nazis

 

If you need anything for proof - look at Africa. They are the perfect example of how colonialism is NEVER good for anything (outside of taking what is not yours).

 

Look at what took over when the colonial powers left that nice democrat in Zimbabwe a Fool running South Africa who denies Aids has anything to do with sex

This is not to say that the US is any better

Of course their unequivocal support for Israel Who by terrorist means ejected Arabs from Palestine.

If you are Diego Garcian I am sure you like both Britain and the USA

but uh...yea....British colonialism....not so good.

Its nice to see others willing to fight against the great Satan formerly the British Empire Now the USA