Biggest Trek Oversight: Borg time travel?

[Mav]

I remembered a bit of dialogue Seven of Nine had "Dark Frontier" circa season 5 that was along the lines of "The Collective has tried two assaults directly on Earth and failed, including time travel". She didn't tell Janeway further information but we can easily assume she meant the events in First Contact obviously.

 

And that started me thinking that is the biggest plot hole in Trek canon to date. Look at the points of importance in the matter;

 

The Borg have the technology to time travel.

 

They sent one Cube which later launched one Sphere into Earth's orbit to time travel back intime to assimilate humanity at an earlier stage of our development as a species.

 

Stop. Think.

 

Why not just go back, farther in time, away from Earth, and attack then? The Queen has said "We are patient." referring to the Borg species, they can bide their time. I can probably clue into your first question or answer;

 

"Well maybe for the Borg time travel technology to work, they have to be in close proximity to their destination in the past, i.e. Earth's orbit now to end up in Earth's orbit several hundred years in the past?"

 

I thought so too. Then the Queen's quote on being patient hit me like a Ferengi garbage scowl. Why not simply go back in time, many many light years from any part of Federation space where they might be detected, and go back in time there, and then begin their journey to Earth to then assimilate our species? They don't mind waiting, the Borg are a long lived culture and can reproduce easily. Theoritically their technology can run long enough with regular maintenance and by the 24th century a Fed Starship would have the fuel to travel the distance from there (that far out not to be dedicated in current Fed space) to Earth so we know the Cube could easily run on the fuel they had.

 

Now your second statement or question is going to probably be

 

"Well obviously it's just a show. Otherwise the Borg would just kill humans in the past, take over the Alpha Quadrant and there'd be no TNG/DS9/Voyager timelines".

 

You'd be right in a certain sense. But we are looking at it from a storyline/plot device point of view. Until Voyager, the canon (or shall I say writers) stayed away from the Borg at it's heart. Sure we managed to stop one Cube, twice. But what if the Borg sent an invasion fleet? What if they pulled a Xindi and just dropped a nanoprobe bomb from orbit via a conduit system? There'd be no chance in hell.

 

By then it just seemed to be the most overlooked plot hole in all Trek canon. Worse than the Klingon appearance b.s. between TOS/TOS Movies/TNG era. Worse than "Warp 10".

 

Simply put the Borg have the ability and technology to wipe humanity out at any given time from the time point of First Contact's time period (we assume from that point on they have the knowledge). And for the naysayers just remember, what one Cube knows they pretty much all know thanks to the hive mind and enhanced subspace communication. Though the one Cube and Sphere were made into dust, it's more than likely the rest of the Collective knows.

[Tenebrae]

Given the apparent ease of time travel in the trekverse - it's a pretty common problem. It's not like Dr. Who where time travel was a pretty hard thing to obtain and ultimately DID lead to a war that just lead to two races being almost utterly destroyed two races...

 

I think we can assume that Daniels and his buds from the 31st century or whatever are monitoring the time-space continuum for meddling... or something.

[TFMF]

But then you could also say - why doesn't the borg send in more than ONE cube against the federation - because if they did - the Federation would loose and we don't want that to happen...... :rolleyes:

 

It's the same reason for why the borg don't go back in time earlier

[Tenebrae]

One could argue - when it comes to time travel, that there isn't any point in going back to 1492 because all the technology and stuff that would make them appealing. Although, I suppose the Queen would probably want to stop them foiling her plans. SHE'D HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT IF IT HADN'T BEEN FOR YOU MEDDLING TREKKIES!

 

Also - I imagine paradox is a danger and as I said, there are probably people hanging out in the future wouldn't be too fond of that.

 

An issue regarding the Borg and time travel... what if the Borg adapt to the future weapons Janeway brought along from the future? That's going to screw a lot of people over.

[Mav]

One could argue - when it comes to time travel, that there isn't any point in going back to 1492 because all the technology and stuff that would make them appealing. Although, I suppose the Queen would probably want to stop them foiling her plans. SHE'D HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT IF IT HADN'T BEEN FOR YOU MEDDLING TREKKIES!

 

Also - I imagine paradox is a danger and as I said, there are probably people hanging out in the future wouldn't be too fond of that.

 

An issue regarding the Borg and time travel... what if the Borg adapt to the future weapons Janeway brought along from the future? That's going to screw a lot of people over.

 

One problem though, "fairness".

 

Look at it this way, say the unit of Starfleet/The Federation that Braxton works for (the ones that monitor and police the timeline) intervene to stop the Borg, or the Xindi or whoever right?

 

Why didn't they intervene to stop Future Janeway from helping Present Janeway get home using technology from the future in "Endgame"? Are we to believe they only monitor "bad guys"? We know for a fact that changing even the slightest thing can often offset all of a timeline, even when the intentions are good i.e. when Braxton wanted to make sure Janeway wouldn't timetravel anymore so he wouldn't end up crazy in the future. Self preservation seems noble enough but the *ahem* "time cops" for lack of a better word, stopped him. Yet no one stops Janeway?

 

Time travel has always been a convienant plot device for writers. And yea it's fun for viewers too but it's pretty one sided to allow certain people to get away with it and punish others for trying.

[Guest c4evap]

Maybe the Borg have tried to travel further back in time but were stopped by the Q??? :thinking: Or maybe it just didn't occur to the writers ;)

 

c4 B)

[GorunNova]

... or maybe a simple cost / effect analysis showed the Borg that travelling backwards or forwards in time caused more trouble than it was worth, and so they logically decided not to do it?

 

Edit: Going back could distort / erase their current selves, and going forward would result in encountering foes too far advanced for their technology to properly deal with... and so, they don't time travel.

[Guest c4evap]

Edit: Going back could distort / erase their current selves' date=' and going forward would result in encountering foes too far advanced for their technology to properly deal with... and so, they don't time travel.[/quote']

Your correct about the future but the past..? I don't think they'd meet anyone in the past whom they couldn't beat. Must be another reason...other than the writers thinking no one would pick up on that little thing.

 

c4 B)

[Wazer]

Another problem is that past humans would not appeal to the Borg they only escaped into the past in First Contact because they were weakened. Much of there current resources would have been used in fighting in the Delta quadrant and against species 8472 so Earth isn't that special to them.

When you go back in time they could disrupt species important to the Borg collective and they lose the knowledge of human culture form the 24th century.

Most people on the Star Trek feel it is too risky to go back in time on a large scale the effects are hard to predict as the Temperal Cold war from Enterprise showed where they "rescued" Archer only to destroy themselves.

[TFMF]

When Voyager destroyed the Borg collective in Endgame - any remaining Borg might decide to go back in time and stop Voyagers launch in the first place.... :stare:

[Tenebrae]

I don't think they destroyed the Collective, they probably just gave the Queen one mother of a hangover.

 

As to the point about Braxton and not locking up Future Janeway... well, I think that one struggles to come out with anything other than "because the writers wanted to". If you had some awesome load of super cops in the future that could stop people messing with time... well, half the Trek episodes would be 5 minutes long.

 

It's just one of those things which is unsatisfactory because there really isn't that much in the way of continuity.

 

Although, it's amusing that TOS had an episode where they made it look like time travel was something you'd do as easily as making a cup of coffee. The episode I saw yesterday (Paradise Syndrome?) had them travel back three days in time KIRK DIDN'T EVEN BLINK. He just sweated.

 

I don't think Q would intervene in time travel though. I mean, other than molesting gas clouds... he is more for personal amusement than anything and the continuum presumably knows it'll all be alright on the night.

[TetsuoShima]

I think we can assume that Daniels and his buds from the 31st century or whatever are monitoring the time-space continuum for meddling... or something.

 

That was exactly what I was thinking. I sounds to me like the best possible explanation...

 

What else would be stopping the borg from time travelling into their own past. Upgrade the old tech to the new one. Wait another few hundred years, new technologies are assimilated in that time. Timetravel back to the past and do the same thing again. It would nearly infinitely increase their level of technology.

 

 

Why didn't they intervene to stop Future Janeway from helping Present Janeway get home using technology from the future in "Endgame"? Are we to believe they only monitor "bad guys"? We know for a fact that changing even the slightest thing can often offset all of a timeline, even when the intentions are good i.e. when Braxton wanted to make sure Janeway wouldn't timetravel anymore so he wouldn't end up crazy in the future. Self preservation seems noble enough but the *ahem* "time cops" for lack of a better word, stopped him. Yet no one stops Janeway?

 

Time travel has always been a convienant plot device for writers. And yea it's fun for viewers too but it's pretty one sided to allow certain people to get away with it and punish others for trying.

 

Good point, I wondered about that too. I never did get a satisfying answer to that question. Only one I could come up with, was that nothing significant changed because of it. But given Voyagers past delta quadrant history, I would find that 'solution' a bit unrealistic.

 

 

BTW, you guys do remember that traveling into the past/future is as easy as warping around the sun, right... :p

[Guest c4evap]

When Voyager destroyed the Borg collective in Endgame - any remaining Borg might decide to go back in time and stop Voyagers launch in the first place.... :stare:

And so, you have the basis for a Voyager movie. Janeway knows the Borg, so she must follow them back in time and..........................

 

c4 :D

[Arktis]

BTW, you guys do remember that traveling into the past/future is as easy as warping around the sun, right... :p

Actually, it's even easier in picard's time. In First Contact, when they want to get back, Picard just says "...recreate the vortex.", and *poof*!

[TFMF]

And in DS9 - Sisko let Kira use the Orb of Time to go back in time to see if Dukat was telling the truth about her mother - didn't really think about the risks - just a casual trip back in time to see how things are doing.... :rolleyes:

[Tenebrae]

Hahaha. Yeah, time travel in Trek is pretty simple in the Trekverse - so it seems logical to assume there are people who present anything that would totally change the galaxy.

 

But they probably don't bother when it can be fixed by people that are around.

 

This doesn't explain why they don't stop all meddling though. One has to assume that would cause more problems than it was worth.

[Mav]

Hahaha. Yeah, time travel in Trek is pretty simple in the Trekverse - so it seems logical to assume there are people who present anything that would totally change the galaxy.

 

But they probably don't bother when it can be fixed by people that are around.

 

This doesn't explain why they don't stop all meddling though. One has to assume that would cause more problems than it was worth.

 

That was more of a interactive vision. I mean, she didn't change any events at all, or at least we never saw the timeline change. Despite the fact she took on the role of what, one of her mother's friends/other Bajor slave girls, the timeline just stayed the same. In the end she just saw the events of the Occupation on DS9 as they happened.

[TFMF]

In the Tribble episode in DS9 - that guy used the orb of Time and went back in time and could have easily changed events in time - Kira could have easily done the same thing

[Guest c4evap]

Hahaha. Yeah, time travel in Trek is pretty simple in the Trekverse - so it seems logical to assume there are people who present anything that would totally change the galaxy.

 

But they probably don't bother when it can be fixed by people that are around.

 

This doesn't explain why they don't stop all meddling though. One has to assume that would cause more problems than it was worth.

 

That was more of a interactive vision. I mean, she didn't change any events at all, or at least we never saw the timeline change. Despite the fact she took on the role of what, one of her mother's friends/other Bajor slave girls, the timeline just stayed the same. In the end she just saw the events of the Occupation on DS9 as they happened.

True. The timeline did remain the same. One thing did change however - Kira's knowledge of her mother's actions and reasoning. No affect to the timeline, more of a character development.

 

c4 B)

[TFMF]

Wouldn't the knowlege of Luma (name Kira called herself while visiting the past, i think) be in the minds of the people she interacted with then?