The Plausability Of Torchwood's Premise *SPOILERS*

[Tenebrae]

*Uh, Season 2 Dr. Who Finale Spoilers and such*

 

Now, we all know that... several times (and from the looks of the trailer, it's going to happen again this Christmas) that the whole world - or insofar as it exists in the Whoniverse, London and Cardiff - have both had pretty much uncoveruppable evidence of aliens. Now, we know that Torchwood CAN do the retcon to the entire population of Cardiff but clearly, Gwen knew about the events of Army of Ghosts... it seems silly that so many people haven't twigged and methinks, it's more a concession to lazy scriptwriters than anything else.

 

You know, maybe people could write off the plastic mannequins coming to life or the alien spaceship smashing into Big Ben but Cybermen materialising in their living rooms and across the globe or an alien spaceship the size of Bristol parking over London, causing the people of the world to threaten suicide and then blowing up said spaceship? That surely has to affect some kind of social change... hell, Arthur C. Clarke wrote a book where there was a devastating global recession. That's just NOT the kind of thing you can cover up.

 

Thoughts about this laze?

[Vyperion]

Why oh why did you make this topic? Prepare yourselves for I shall try not to foam at the mouth and savage this series any more than I have done..

 

Simply put it's piss-poor writing as they don't have to maintain a strong continuity so every new person they introduce can still be shocked at this. It's so that people can remain dumb, stupid idiots and cause untold trouble in their naivity which the heroes (and I use the term loosely when considering any of Torchwood's one-dimensional characters) can save the day from the 'village idiot' civilians.

 

Another reason is if people know about outer space they will inevitably want to go there and currently the budget doesn't stretch that far (I believe the exact words were 'it would look stupid if we pretended to be on planet... '). It's cheaper to stay on Earth than have a populous that wants to get out there and see the universe.

 

It's the same plausable deniability/cover-up/retardation of the populous that started a dislike for the constant Stargate SG-1 cover-ups. 7 years of cover-ups from outbreaks, rogue agents and Goa'uld hunts that always managed to be buried. Season 7 had it all lined up for full disclosure but then BAMM we're back in denial again with season 8 and the same expose-denial relationship stories come up again with the certain consequence that we will be saved from having to deal with problems which are too big for us but not for several teams of Air Force soldiers operting inside a mountain.

 

It's a budget thing but more so they don't have to deal with it by writing in storylines that actually tackle it. They always let one through as long as it serves the plot and they end up on the team but the rest of us are dumb as a box of rocks. Flimsy but easy to write.

 

Farscape actually dealt with it, however briefly, during season 4. Humans were exposed to aliens and technology beyond their understanding and there was repercussions both good and bad from the early follow-up where they vilified the aliens from the attack by the assassin to the final episode where they had gathered together and were ready.

 

It's easier to just keep denying than to develop anything. Another reason why Torchwood, Stargate SG-1 and Star Trek are now bottom of my current sci-fi list whereas Farscape and Battlestar rate at the top. They progress, they develop, they deal with consequences and it doesn't just go away one episode later with the 'it was all a dream' mentality.

[S0V13T]

rotflolmao???//

[Tenebrae]

Yeah, the "old school" of sci-fi is still using the generic sitcom model, come hell or high water - at the end of the show, the status quo remains the same. Maybe you'll change some characters but the overall dynamic of the thrust will remain the same.

 

I think that Farscape was probably the best for that - we had the cast change not immensely but quite a bit and the situation changed and I suppose in some ways, that by the end it was a very different show.

 

But yes, it's quite clear that the writing of Torchwood is not striving for anything.

[[MM]]

Yeah, the "old school" of sci-fi is still using the generic sitcom model, come hell or high water - at the end of the show, the status quo remains the same. Maybe you'll change some characters but the overall dynamic of the thrust will remain the same.

.....

 

True , but then it's common to a lot of sci-fi's , SG-1 has already been mentioned , but also consider Doctor Who itself (including all the old series) , in that we've even had Daleks trundling down London roads.

 

Yet come next story - it's all forgotten about. (and this has been happening for many many years in DW)

 

Question is : Does that make it "bad" ?

 

Everyone will have their own answer for that (see Vyperion above) - I personally don't mind - If an individual story is good and entertaining then I frankly don't care.

 

That don't mean that I don't like running stories - I enjoy them as well.

 

In the end , if it entertains me then it's done it's job IMHO :)

 

[MM]

 

[GorunNova]

With Torchwood (i.e. in the Doctor Who setting), it was starting to look like they were finally going to set up a world noticeably changed by alien incursion... but nope, it just became another 'in the know' group (i.e. Torchwood joins the ranks of UNIT and the Doctor for 'people who know what's really going on', while everyone else remains ignorant even if they personally were affected by the invasions / attacks / etc.)

 

You would think that the threatened mass-suicide, cyberman invasion, and the like would make the populace (dumb as they are) accept aliens... but obviously the populace on Doctor Who Earth are so hopelessly stupid that they accept it all as a hoax.  I mean, the population on whole IS prone to that sort of ignorance, but NOT to the sort of degree assumed in Doctor Who...

 

-----

 

"Naah, my aunt wasn't killed by a tin plated man right in front of me and a dozen witnesses... it was all a hallucination!  She just moved away."

"... to where?"

"Who cares?  This is my aunt we're talking about."

*the other 10 people nod in agreement* "Yup."  "Not dead."  "A hoax." "Moved away"...

"Hey... where's Dave?"

"Oh, he... moved away with your Aunt when the hallucination happened.  Left his wife and everything.  Poor thing's distraught... thinks he was killed by a tin plated man."

"Sad."

"... DELETE DELETE DELETE!"

"Oh, look!  Another halluci-*GARK*"

"Dammit!  Steven just moved away!"

"Crap! He owed me three bucks.  Have you got his forwa-*GARK*"

"Mike moved away!  I guess he found Steven's address."

 

-----

 

*sigh* ... I guess it's just that when I see a series of events happening in a setting, I subconsciously think there's a consistant progression going on, and when there isn't... suspension of disbelief suffers for me.

 

I don't care if everyone manages to forget cybermen invasions and mass zombification with threat to suicide... I just want a good, plausible reason FOR that forgetfulness other than, "Well, everybody just shrugged it off, forgot about it, and weren't affected by it in the slightest."

 

Haven't seen such explanations in either Doctor Who or Torchwood, really... not on the scale needed to compensate with the scale of the alien presence.  At least in the old Doctor Who series, most non-Unit people were shuffled away before hell broke loose... and those that weren't typically died and had their deaths explained by UNIT troops (i.e. lied about) or were so few that nobody'd believe them anyways.  It's hard to overlook all the A+ blood people going up to high cliffs worldwide, or cybermen on every street globally.  Still, the new Doctor Who does handle lasting effects a little bit better than previously.  "Mass hallucination", my arse.  Do you really think most people would accept that? XD

 

I should mention that the old series had an interesting way of dealing with such continuity issues... they set big invasions and the like in the future.  Of course, the result is that new stories (and the new series) are happening in that future, and people don't seem to remember the invasions.  Still, can't fault the old series for trying to avoid the continuity issue with the 'future invasion' technique. ^^

 

On second thought, Torchwood is fine (continuitywise, that is), simply because what they deal with is typically not on the same sort of scale as what the Doctor deals with, and thus far easier to cover up.  Amnesia pills are handy... maybe they should get in touch with the MiB in the US to get themselves some flashy-things? ;)  Still, they should avoid the sitcommy "Reset at end", because long term effects = better, deeper show.

 

It's a pity that they don't have UNIT and Torchwood butting heads every so often.  After all, they wade in the same waters, so to speak.

[Tenebrae]

With UNIT there was generally a more plausible situation... as in, they had stuff going on around in that same quarry all the time... the real problem is that Dr. Who pretty much said "this is when things start to change" and pretty much joined the dots on humanity becoming aware it wasn't alone etc. etc.

[GorunNova]

... except that humanity seems too utterly stupid to connect those dots even with a step-by-step how to guide, judging from the looks of things.

[Tenebrae]

Yeah, I imagine this will only get worse as time progresses... I mean, the Christmas special has kind of set a precedent for being a DEADLY ATTACK ON LONDON... so, it's just going to get sillier as time passes that people didn't twig.

 

The Doctor is always going on about how great humans are - and then despite the equivalent of a knee in the groan and a punch in the face, they're still oblivious. There's suspension of disbelief but this is just silly.

[paniq]

Most people would want to believe the alternative version, as it would be easier than thinking it was really aliens, after all most people are not into scifi and don't care about outer space, aliens etc. Even if aliens did visit, most people wouldn't pay it much attention (unless the alien dated a celebrity).

 

What there surely would be, is groups of disparate individuals not believing the alternative and trying to find out the truth - e.g. via the internet. We had this a bit in DW, such as mentioning sites on DW appearances over the years etc. I'm sure a good storyline could be developed on the aftermath - trying to debunk the "real truth" conspirators, people having to come to terms with it. Even a rival organisation or governmental opposition forming as a result.

 

Maybe TW should not be set on our world, but an alternative reality where the only difference is people know aliens have visited (as opposed to cybermen did but no one remembers or believes it was a mass hallucination)

[flicky1991]

If anyone here reads the Discworld books, then they'll know how it works there: you don't see anything you don't believe could be there. Dying people see Death appear, but no-one else notices that a skeleton in a black robe with a scythe has just appeared, because they don't expect to see one.

[Tenebrae]

Actually, I believe you'll find that Terry Prachett - hack that he is - stole that idea from the infinitely superior Douglas Adams. Would that I could have a dead Prachett and a living Douglas Adams, I would do so without thinking.

 

Other than that, it's hardly the same... barring neuralysers (and Torchwood did have retcon but they said they'd only used it on a city wide scale once) they were pushing suspension of disbelief to breaking point.

[Amnot Borg]

Yeah, the "old school" of sci-fi is still using the generic sitcom model, come hell or high water - at the end of the show, the status quo remains the same. Maybe you'll change some characters but the overall dynamic of the thrust will remain the same.

 

War of the Worlds definitely showed changes to the status quo as Earth was invaded by more than one species. Of course when they decided to cancel it, they did make every thing all better, mommy kiss the booboo.  :P

[flicky1991]

Actually, I believe you'll find that Terry Prachett - hack that he is - stole that idea from the infinitely superior Douglas Adams. Would that I could have a dead Prachett and a living Douglas Adams, I would do so without thinking.

 

Other than that, it's hardly the same... barring neuralysers (and Torchwood did have retcon but they said they'd only used it on a city wide scale once) they were pushing suspension of disbelief to breaking point.

 

Where's the proof he stole the idea? I know what bit you're talking about (the SEP) but Pratchett could have got the idea himself! Also, it's a recurring theme in Discworld, whereas, in Hitchhiker's, it was only important in one book.

[GorunNova]

Actually the whole idea of 'perceptual filtering' and people not seeing what is there due to not wanting to see it has been around for ages... the SEP of Douglas Adams and Death from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series are just variants on the theme.

[Tenebrae]

All I shall say flicky is - if Terry Prachett ever had an idea that wasn't purloined (for the purposes of "hilarious" parody) from elsewhere, I've yet to hear it.

 

Of course, as Gorun points out - not exactly original. Pretty hard to come up with original ideas these days.