Soulreaper Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 For anyone who have read Marvel - The End. I've spend a great deal of my time and life into understanding and investigating life, goals, people, situations, everything leading into dissecting what life really is and what it is not, how it functions and so on... Ever put any thought into what life really is about? Serious thoughts - not any 1 liner-ravings and rantings we all already know; and any such attempts will not be accepted - it's only proof that the topic at hand has not been thoroughly examined and understood but approached with scorn and a childish mentality not worthy of attention. Now, that being established; First off I'm curious to see and find out how people will respon to this and primarily this first question. Second; This is the obvious next question - what would YOU do with the Power Supreme? This is a tricky question indeed because all serious people who've REALLY thought this through will sooner or later find themselves dumbstruck when attempting to answer this. If you can't understand what I mean I will spell it out for you; when you start digging into things, now really digging, about purpose, and what really is meaningful, most answers will find themselves eventually undone (this is called EXTREME logic - looking at ALL facets, even those inconcievable - try that out) It'll be interesting to see what comes out in this thread. Just a personal note; beware of too heavy intricate thought, since you'll only end up like me; a nut-case. Have fun and...good luck! - you'll need it...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 Ever put any thought into what life really is about? The best my sleep deprived brain can do today is "42." Not even a one-liner. But "42" sounds like a pretty good answer on good days, too. It seems like the question can be answered in one of two general categories: 1) Life has an essential meaning. 2) Life has no essential meaning. The first leads to as many different answers (at least) as their are religions - and practitioners of those religions. The second breaks down to three sub-approaches: 2.a) Therefore meaning is what you create/discover in life. 2.b) Therefore all is meaningless/pointless - Nihilism. 2.c) "Mu" I suppose there's yet a third major path: "You have wrongly posed the question - therefore any answer will itself be meaningless and misleading." Second; This is the obvious next question - what would YOU do with the Power Supreme? I don't think any greater damage has been done in the world than that done by people with power trying to set "wrongs" right. It might be fun to come up with a personal laundry list of wrongs to be righted - but I'm sure that if I had the power to carry that list out, it would end up increasing misery in the world. Power shared is power multiplied. If I were "God," I would delegate to each being in creation, say to each "Thou art God. Thou art Goddess." And then work to preserve free will by staying out of the problem. Sort of a Stranger in a Strange Land meets the Tao Te Ching. People have seen some of the blunders I've made as a moderator - and had to apologize for. Can you imagine me with more power than just to delete a post or lock a thread?!? No. Not for me. I don't want it. I won't take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulreaper Posted May 30, 2005 Author Share Posted May 30, 2005 Good attemps - I'm somewhat satisfied, but I'm of course hoping for further replies (if anyone dares..?). True - it can be broken down into different meanings but I'd like to take it even one step further, namely closer to the finite; My answer is the following: The meaning is to find and create meaning where one wills it. When meaning or purpose/intention of sorts is established, next step is to fuel that with the creative fires, namely Passion. Passion is really the fuel and the fundamental drive to accomplish anything while we have reason and intellect to GUIDE that passion into fulfilling the meaning/purpose/intention. For an instance, if the purpose is to become "great" at anything, the mechanics are quite simple; exercise/train, get better and better in that field (and the adjacent fields supporting the prime). Reason and logical train of thought, knowledge is certainly a good thing, however without passion it's like having a tank without tracks, arms and gas - all it does is "existing" and it doesn't really matter how "powerful" it CAN be. Not a perfectly satisfying answer, even from myself however I'm trying to focus here without my wonderful and regular toxxins in the brain and the bloodstream. I might go back and alter this into something more suitable later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 life has whatever meaning you give it.......... happy with that or were you lookin for a mystical answer. lots of people are happy not knowing but feeling a sense of wonder at what they dont know. anyone one of those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 what would i do with the ultimate power? first, get counselling. (haha) big lifestyle change people who have answered this question so far have based theyre answer on hangin around. i cant be chewed with sorting out the human race. people know what to do to sort themselves out and they dont do it. so omnipotence is a temporary solution. additionally, why would i want to hang around here if i could do anything? there is a whole universe out there......... i know this is not the answer you were seeking but i have been altruistic enough and plus i have such a massive ego that if i had the power i'd be worse than.......... Q :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 what would i do with the ultimate power? additionally, why would i want to hang around here if i could do anything? there is a whole universe out there......... I hadn't thought of it that way - I like the way your mind moved outside the box. There is a whole universe (at least one) to be explored, experienced, played with, devoured, reborn, made-love-to, etc ... Gotta stop thinking like a mortal and like a God ... After all, Genesis is pretty clear that The Gods were frightened that once Adam and Eve had eaten of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and had access to the Tree of Live, they would become like Gods themselves - and the Elohim were threatened by this - and imposed mortality upon humanity. (I know this is not a typical interpretation, but if you care about such things, read it for yourself. It's right there in black and white in the Bible.) I still liked my idea of delegating/sharing ... although Charles Manson with omnipotence is a bit scary! :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 looking down from that high would change your perception of everything. things you worry about now would seem insignificant and lonliness would set in. i think the first thing to do would be to find similar beings. if i couldnt do that, i wouldnt want it. prepare to be feared. anyone who understood what you got is gonna be scared. just the way people are. no faith in each other. and prepare to get really stoned and make really funny creatures. like a zebra with a rocket launcher attached to each hind leg. nature programs would go up inthe ratings and lions would be in for a surprise. how bout giving elephants wings? could be hilarious. ok enough. soulreaper wanted serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorisP Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 You know what I am going to say. Evolution. You are supposed to take the basic body you get when you are born and work it into a higher being. This can be accomplished in many ways other than the usual metaphysical methods. Becoming an accomplished musician or dancer is just a valid of method of evolving into a higher being as is Yoga or Kung Fu. To be honest, I think music and dancing might have the edge. What do African Tribal people do every day? They sing and dance. Because they are stupid and simple? That is what superior white culture says. But what if the Africans are superior and they are singing and dancing to evolve and the simple tribal life is just what they do to pass the time while they wait for the next singing and dancing session? What would I do with ultimate power? Get bored. That is one of my ideas about life. The Earth is entertainment for "gods". People who can do anything. They get bored. Make a planet, make a star, make a galaxy. Boring. So what they do is they agree to give up their powers and go to Earth. The rules are you cannot do Godlike stuff. The entertainment is in being subjected to a world where things do not go your way. This view is sort of like the Norse God view of the world. Didn't the Norse gods play with earth people as pawns in a game? People can be possessed so why not by Norse Gods? Somebody or something has to be doing the possession. Though usually it is bad motivated human beings. It can be good motivated human beings too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 What would I do with ultimate power? Get bored. That is one of my ideas about life. The Earth is entertainment for "gods". People who can do anything. They get bored. Make a planet, make a star, make a galaxy. Boring. you are as elderbear put it "thinking like a human. think like a god. if the earth is entertainment for the gods then sit back and watch for a while. also i think that implied in your post was that we have to evolve and that evolution involves suffering. i keep havin the same arguement with my father. you do not need to suffer through life to feel achievement. suffering to achieve something simply gives it a greater personal value. as it is tho, man or god you will be either happy or unhappy. you have the chance to decide whether you will do the things that make you happy or not. and whether we're here to please the gods makes little difference. for as long as you have desires to fulfill then you will simply make yourself unhappy by having them. ramble over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinp Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 This might not make much sense but here goes. It has a scientific slant to it. I think the meaning of life is "To boldly go where no one has gone before" Without progress, we are all cavemen and life is pointless, in my opinion. We must keep progressing in order to at least think there is meaning in life. I mean honestly, how many of us would like it if we hunted the same animal every day for our entire life. To me, cavemen did not enjoy and appreciate life because they did not progress(at least until the Ag. Rev. in ~3000 B.C.) As Newton said "If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Newton lived life, along with the other great developers and philosophers. The (mostly)French thinkers of the late 1700's lived life to the fullest, even though they might have been executed. You cannot truly live life if you sit around and do nothing for the world. Extremely freaky fact: "To boldly go where no one has gone before" has exactly 42 characters including spaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Extremely freaky fact: "To boldly go where no one has gone before" has exactly 42 characters including spaces. Actually, it has 41 visible characters (in C the string has 42, including the final terminal '\0'). You actually have to add a period to the end of the phrase to get 42. :p IDLE 1.0.3 >>> len('To boldly go where no one has gone before') 41 >>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 wow! so james t was really on to something. only one letter away from figuring out the meaning of life. GOR BLIMEY :p only one letter to find. and he had a starship to help him find the final letter. shame he didnt know about it really. if he had, he would have found it and made an episode about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinp Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Sorry about that. When I counted, I used the arrow keys in the post and the quote was on more than one line. There is an extra keystroke needed to get to the next line that does not count a character. Thanks for the correction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorisP Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 What would I do with ultimate power? Get bored. That is one of my ideas about life. The Earth is entertainment for "gods". People who can do anything. They get bored. Make a planet, make a star, make a galaxy. Boring. you are as elderbear put it "thinking like a human. think like a god. if the earth is entertainment for the gods then sit back and watch for a while. also i think that implied in your post was that we have to evolve and that evolution involves suffering. i keep havin the same arguement with my father. you do not need to suffer through life to feel achievement. suffering to achieve something simply gives it a greater personal value. as it is tho, man or god you will be either happy or unhappy. you have the chance to decide whether you will do the things that make you happy or not. and whether we're here to please the gods makes little difference. for as long as you have desires to fulfill then you will simply make yourself unhappy by having them. ramble over You don't have to evolve. You can stay at the low level you are at if you want. Millions of people do. The suffering bit? I think you are talking suffering like really suffering. I can agree that going without a big car to go do yoga or something instead is suffering. But is it really suffering? Not to me. If you have food and a roof over your head, that is all you need to evolve. I think that you and many other people have a scientific or technological outlook on life. So much so that you have trouble seeing the validity of another outlook on life. A more simplistic outlook. What if I said that the ultimate attainment was to become a tree? You would grow from a seed to old age doing absolutley nothing but sitting in the same place. A person might say, that is boring, a tree is a low life form that does nothing. What if evolving was about sitting around and watching the world? Absorbing energy from the world around. Basically just enjoying the spectacle of creation? Oh! Wait a minute! Isn't that what Guru's say? Let go of life, meditate and watch the world around you? So maybe a tree is not such a low form of life. Maybe a human being is not such a high form of life. What if human beings were at the bottom of the evolutionary rung instead of the top? At the top is something like a Redwood tree. It lives for hundreds of years. It sits there, watching the world come and go, absorbing hundreds of years worth of energy before it dies and moves on. On the other hand you got humans. They live maybe 60 years. They have to work to feed themselves. Not only do they have to work, they live in fear because other animals and other humans fight with them for basic things like food and water. Humans have these things called brains. They think all the time. They can't get away from it. Instead of sitting serenely like a tree, watching the world go by, the brain of a human makes him run back and forth doing this and that. Humans actually have to train themselves to calm down and sit serenely. This training is so difficult it takes years of the human gets it at all. Star Trek and Sci Fi is about breaking the shell around your brain. You think of stuff like what I just wrote and your brain cracks open. Then the shell grows back. Then you find another weird idea to crack it open again. What if human is the bottom of Evolution and tree or rock or something that lives for hundreds of years just sitting and watching and absorbing energy is the pinnacle of attainment? We have holy men who tell us sitting and watching and aborbing energy is the pinnacle of human attainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulreaper Posted June 1, 2005 Author Share Posted June 1, 2005 Interesting post - for me in regards of thinking, my "shell" was ripped to pieces LONG ago, but I agree with your post BorisP - it's what I've told people for ages yet my "blind" idealism and different views on life doesn't seem to get through - well some do understand and think the way I do (in fact most people I hang around with think BIG, not mediocre, or not at all) same goes for those I tend to make friends with and hang with in general. just a note - but I'm glad to see such words! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 What if I said that the ultimate attainment was to become a tree? You would grow from a seed to old age doing absolutley nothing but sitting in the same place. A person might say, that is boring, a tree is a low life form that does nothing. What if evolving was about sitting around and watching the world? Absorbing energy from the world around. Basically just enjoying the spectacle of creation? I would not argue with you (except out of form). But a tree doesn't "do nothing." Recent research has found that plants communicate via a network of fungoids in the soil. Also, the great redwoods have been found to communicate from root-system to root-system - sort of a boreal internet. I think the essential piece that has gone missing about meaning and evolution, is that life is richer with relationships: relating to yourself ("Know thyself!"), relating to others. Connecting. Interdependence. Entwining. The house I'm vacating soon, that has been home for over 7 years, is shaded on the west by a 60+ year old Italian Stone Pine. That tree does more than sit and observe. It's too big too hug - well to get my arms around. But standing with my back against the trunk and opening to the chi flow of the Wise Grandparent Tree, is quite an experience. It is grounding, with the powerful rooted connections to the earth. It is opening, with the branches opening to the sky, offering shade (and squirrel food). That tree has protected our home, not just from the afternoon sun, but it shields us from the malign. When my children were much younger, and afraid to sleep because of dreams, I helped them connect to the tree. To visualize their connection at bedtime, to feel the power flowing through them, to sense the shield against all things evil. Their nightmares stopped - except on those nights when I was working past their bedtimes or travelling. Even then, I soon learned that whispering to them while they slept about connecting to the Tree, about being protected by the Tree, stopped the nightmares. You may ask, "How can elderbear talk like this when he's strongly argued as a scientist?" But it's not the scientist in me that experiences our Tree. It's the mystic, the shaman, the wizard. If somebody were to make an empirical assertion that "trees reduce the incidence of nightmares in children," I would want to know their proof. How did they differentiate between an unkown physical mechanism and the power of suggestion? But if somebody told me that their tree (or morning glory, or cactus, or mushroom, or cat) provided them with chi or insight or powers - I'd be interested in hearing their stories, their experiences - possibly in sharing those experiences. This is different from science (even from psychology), it's the world of people relating to people - even when things cannot be scientifically explained. The world of scientism does little or nothing to strengthen human relationships. The willingness to listen to experiences, to not judge - just relate, to join in rapport even about something you don't understand ... that can add a powerful meaning to life - perhaps even the most powerful. PS BorisP, you can tell I'm not really a master of this last paragraph - I'm a novice. But I'm evolving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Interesting post - for me in regards of thinking, my "shell" was ripped to pieces LONG ago, but I agree with your post BorisP - it's what I've told people for ages yet my "blind" idealism and different views on life doesn't seem to get through - well some do understand and think the way I do (in fact most people I hang around with think BIG, not mediocre, or not at all) same goes for those I tend to make friends with and hang with in general. just a note - but I'm glad to see such words! The danger of philosophy is that it can easily become mental masturbation - and make you very lopsided! One thing I'm only slowly learning to do in my life is "To live life on the basis of the question mark rather than the period." Instead of "telling people," have you tried listening? Not just hearing them for a few moments before you begin to formulate your response - but listening from the heart. This is a skill I'm learning, slowly, in my own life. (And it doesn't carry over very well into the internet.) It's something that I teach in anger management classes. Google "active listening" and/or "empathic listening" and/or "reflective listening" for technique and pointers. Remember our IM conversation late last week? When I began a bit of a soul dump regarding some of what I stumble over right now. At first, you kept "trying to tell me" - proffering good advice. And I, like most people, felt the urge to argue about why your good ideas wouldn't apply to me (even though they did.) But then I did something uncharacteristic - I began to ignore what you were telling me and simply type that bit of my story out as fast as I could. I could tell you were listening then, you were empathetic. You were getting me. That allowed me to open deeper, to connect with a piece of myself that I had cut-off in grief years before. For me it was a powerful experience and I thank you for that wonderful gift. I think if you listen from the heart you'll connect better with the people you want to explain your philosophy to. You'll hear their experiences. You'll connect with them. They will feel more comfortable with you and eventually will be more ready to take in philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 The thing about evolution is it's not an end... it's a process, and it can go in an infinite number of different ways depending on the situation. One set of species evolved into us, another into trees, yet another into iguanas... depending on your standards, each one could be superior to all others... but the only criteria given by evolution is selection by fitness in a given aspect of an environment. Trees evolved to get as much sunlight as possible, and grow as high as possible to overshadow competing trees. We evolved the capacity to reason and outthink other creatures in many environments... as our high population demonstrates, we -are- the current top of the line on Earth when we talk about evolution, but if things change, we'll be replaced by better adapted creatures... assuming evolution continues as it has before us. Evolution is a process of optimization, not a road to the 'ultimate form'... whatever that is. ... it seems that evolution in us has taken a different form. We are capable of mental evolution within a lifetime, changing behaviors to adapt to different environments, and eventually we'll probably be able to control our own evolution, first by bioengineering our offspring, and then by being able to rebuild our bodies without losing our minds entirely... or maybe just build bodies to suit our environments, given that article about mind transferrence to electronic formats. As far as 'rewriting' people stored in a computer, there are always issues when new technologies come up. The wrong thing to do is to try and ban them... someone will always use new scientific discoveries, legally or illegally. The best thing to do is take every new discovery, examine it, and try to come up with ways to make it safer. Worried about tampering with digital people backups? Instead of banning it outright, come up with ways to protect those backups from tampering, because SOMEONE will back up human minds regardless of ethical concerns. I always try to listen to everyone's point of view, but there are some points of view that I have seen over and over again, and they are either not self consistant, not based on or do not effectively explain any evidence from our world in a reproducable manner, or describe things that some other idea explains better and with more depth and accuracy. I tend to dismiss those instead of reiterating for the thousanth time the many, many reasons I have for not believing that point of view. Even then, though, I will remember the viewpoint for reference, in case something changes, and inconsistencies vanish with a new point of view. If you disagree with any of this, give me some good reasons to change my mind and I probably will :D Edit: *sigh* I guess I covered ideas from different topics here, but in general it's an attempt to shine light on my particular way of looking at things ^^ Edit 2: I could give my reasoning for being an atheist at some point, but I don't want to bore people more than I probably already have ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the6ofpopes Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Life is simply that "LIFE", we each make of it what we want or allow others to decide for us. Were born into the world, we grow old & we die, it's pretty basic, there's nothing extraordinary about life. The problem is most people let instilled values & believe's interfere with obtaining the goals we would like to reach. Power supreme, that's a easy one. Take control of the planet & everyone on it, do whatever I feel like doing. Basically the same things businessman, politician, lawyers & religious groups already do. which is screw everyone over to get what they want & not have any hangups about it. You see they've already figured it out, let everyone else believe in right or wrong, good & bad "RW/GB", & while everyone's hungup on RW/GB, your free to do & get what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Hmmmm... supreme power? Odds are, I'd rarely use it, and if I did it would be subtle. You don't break eggs with a sledgehammer, after all... or hunt ducks with a rocket launcher ^^ One of my projects would probably be to find a habitable world, and tag along as it evolves life to understand the process completely, making sure no other sentient races come along to screw it up. ... I'd also be sure to mantain a few bonsai mountains while I'm at it, too, and have a home away from all sentient life where I could unwind and be my all powerful self ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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