military expansionism

[GhostShadow]

I can see how other countries might question the using of nuclear powered fleets, but i dont think that the US military would even use a nuclear powered tank if it leaked readiaition, and we are not 100 years away from using the technology, we have it today. Like you pointed out, nuclear subs and boats. We can attach those saftey measures to a smaller scale and use it on smaller vehicals. Now i am not an expert on nuclear technology but i am sure that it is safe. we have been developing it for years.

 

I am not saying that this technology is going to happen tomarrow but like I said, in 10-15 years from now the entire or majority of the American fleets will be nuclear powered. I am seeing other countries like UK starting to turn to this.

 

I personaly would ask the french to help us beacuse they have a lot of experince with neclear technology. I think some 70% of there power is nuclear.

[the6ofpopes]

I realize we've been using nuclear power for many yrs & we've come a long way with it, but I don't consider it safe. It's relatively safe in the way were currently using it, mostly as a power source in place of coal, locked away inside relatively secure facilities with safeguard on top of safeguard.

 

But once you start putting it into vehicles of war like tanks & helicopters you now run a large risk of it falling into enemy hands during conflicts. Not only that but the current military use in subs & aircraft carriers is a very limited use & each has many safeguards & highly trained personel to monitor them, plus plenty of soldiers & defences on those vessels.

 

A tank is a very small & vulnerable vehicle compared to an aircraft carrier or sub, helicopters are just as vulnerable as we've seen in Iraq & other recent conflicts.

 

I know I'm sounding very pessimistic but I think you have to be, if your always optimistic you'll never see the pitfalls until it's to late.

[S0V13T]

It seems that from whatever info I can get about the US army, it's that they have the nuclear firepower to destroy every populated region on the planet, like 40 times over.

 

Unless by some fluke the Gua'uld, the Borg, the Wraith, the bugs from Starship Troopers, AND Galactus from the marvle Universe all join forces and attack Earth all at the same time, I think it's safe to say that the Americans should probabally stop with the weapons development for a few decades.

[bbbb]

 

The only reason the US is even in Iraq is oil, the US imports 75% of there oil & only has reserves for 5 days.

 

Imagine that, on the 6th day the US would be totally crippled, helpless as a baby!

 

What good is your big military if it can't go anywhere.

 

OMFG, 1) our military is only 2 million ppl strong, 2) we dont need oil much longer.

 

The American government does not like to be dependant on oil, especialy after the last few years. The military is moving in diffrent Directions than oil.

 

Like i said, The Abrahm Tank, Americas elite tank, is going to be Nucular powered soon. Our jets, Air craft carriers, helicopters, Navy, they are all going to be nucular powered within the next 15 years.

 

Nuclear powered tanks! Nuclear powered planes-eek! All I have to say is Kaboom! Any country that seeks to actually use nukes is condemming all mankind to horrible cancers and other environmental diseases.

 

It seems that the environmental movement of the 70s and 80s is dying. People are forgeting the horrible side effects of the use of nuclear weapons. There are huge portions of the Pacific islands that are completely uninhabitable because of the nuclear tests conducted in the 40s and 50s. We must not use nuclear weapons ever for it would kill not only its intended target but also cause cancer to lots of innocent lives far far away.

 

Any country or military that contemplates or seriously intends to use nuclear weapons is condemming us all to a life of misery and annihilation.

 

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A CLEAN NUKE!!!

[bbbb]

Do not use nuclear weapons.

 

Do not spread the threat of nuclear radiation by using nuclear powered vehicles. The depleted uranium shells used in southern Iraq have rendered a highway completely poisonous to human life. Anyone who ventures there risk cancer and even death.

 

I repeat, DO NOT USE NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

[the6ofpopes]

I think were all on the same page as you bbbb regarding the use of nukes. :cyclops: :cyclops: :cyclops:

 

But accidents do happen & that's what frightens me most about any type of expansion of use, of nuclear technology beyond simply providing power to the masses.

[GhostShadow]

have you read what we have been talking about? I have been giving the reasons of why nuclear power should be used. i didnt say we should use a Nuke.....as a weapon.

 

I live very close to Rocky Flates, the ex-number 1 producer of nuclear weapons for the United states and producer of neclear triggers. Now when i drove past there i saw the security, not even a changling could get in there. Snipers on the roof, rotating patrols, concreat walls renforced by steel, razor wire, military presance exct....

 

But the point is that America takes the issue of necular weapons/power very serioulsy.

 

You are all assumeing that a tank will still be weak and vunerable after a nuclear reactor was put into it. When we stormed Sudams army America lost 0 tanks!!!! our Abrams where the eliet tanks on the fild. they never even saw the Abram only there shells.

 

Now our tanks where that strong while using Gas. Now imagine a tank using neclear energy.... We could shoot farther, faster, and would over all be more effective.

 

And if you are worried about the enemy getting a hold of one our tanks what the hell would they do with a pice of uranium the size of a dime or pinpoint? how would they extect it? assumeing a tank was captured by a third-world power they would not have the means to extract. I am sure that there would be safeguards. Now i am moving into speculation with my argument beacuse you are reaching to far ahead. I said that it could easily take 15-20 years before for this is practical. I am sure that our govenments will consider the risks and take care of each with respect.

 

Until then there is enough oil in the world to last at least another 100 years.

[the6ofpopes]

Lets not forget that the US isn't the only country using the Abrams tank.

 

Egypt has 555 M1A1 tanks & another 200 on order.

 

Saudi Arabia has 315 M1A2 tanks

 

Kuwait has 218 M1A2 tanks

 

Australia ordered 59 M1A1 tanks for service by 2007

 

Considering the Abrams tank could fire on average 1,000 meters further than any Iraqi tank it's pretty obvious why there were none lost. Add to that the fact the Abrams never came within 3 miles of the enemy & what enemy there was were nothing more than conscripted militia with 50yr old weapons. All of which were waving white flags long before the US even fired there 1st shot.

 

However your helicopters don't fair near as well, two blackhawks downed in Somalia & in Iraq I stopped counting after the 1st dozen or so, these weren't downed by military forces but rebels & terrorist using rifles in most cases & I heard even rocks in one case.

 

I wouldn't rely on any government to consider risks, yours mine or anyone elses for that matter, money & power is a politicians only motive today. Risks well they'll worry about that part later......if & when they get caught!!

 

Rocky Flates, isn't that the glowing area in the US we always see in photos from the space shuttle as it passes over.

 

Sorry couldn't help myself, resistance is futile....

[CrazyMan]

Why cant the world work as one. To better all of man kind and not just one or one country. Peace and long life to all...

[GhostShadow]

Lets not forget that the US isn't the only country using the Abrams tank.

 

Egypt has 555 M1A1 tanks & another 200 on order.

 

Saudi Arabia has 315 M1A2 tanks

 

Kuwait has 218 M1A2 tanks

 

Australia ordered 59 M1A1 tanks for service by 2007

 

Considering the Abrams tank could fire on average 1,000 meters further than any Iraqi tank it's pretty obvious why there were none lost. Add to that the fact the Abrams never came within 3 miles of the enemy & what enemy there was were nothing more than conscripted militia with 50yr old weapons. All of which were waving white flags long before the US even fired there 1st shot.

 

However your helicopters don't fair near as well, two blackhawks downed in Somalia & in Iraq I stopped counting after the 1st dozen or so, these weren't downed by military forces but rebels & terrorist using rifles in most cases & I heard even rocks in one case.

 

I wouldn't rely on any government to consider risks, yours mine or anyone elses for that matter, money & power is a politicians only motive today. Risks well they'll worry about that part later......if & when they get caught!!

 

Rocky Flates, isn't that the glowing area in the US we always see in photos from the space shuttle as it passes over.

 

Sorry couldn't help myself, resistance is futile....

 

yea now they all may have M1A1 tanks too, but how many do they plan to make nuclear powered? hell for all i know America will find that the Abram wont work with a small tactical nuclear device and make a new design.

 

And i can tell you that no helicopter US/Colition was taken down by a few rocks.... I find that offensive to the ppl that actualy have fought in Iraq and died. I have friends who died fighting.

 

yea and no, rocky flats does not glow....

 

[MustHaveDS9]

I have rarely seen a topic with more bias or disinformation in it..

 

1 - YES, clean nuclear technology DOES exist. A nuclear facility with a fail-safe cooldown system is as safe to the general populous as a friggin windmill. The conversion to nuclear technology to create a fully self-sustaining power grid in the United States is inevitable once self-serving politicians stop blocking the efforts long enough to get things done. Unfortunately, it seems the idea's only vocal proponent is President Bush, who only ever pays lip-service to actual progress, like every other politician with presidential ambitions. And liberals and environmental activists wouldn't want the US to stop burning oil at record rates because then they'd have to clam up on the 'America/Western World/Global-Whatever is Evil' crap, and maybe get real jobs. Explains why they'll scream 'No More Oil Drilling!' and 'Stop Killing the Planet!', but will picket any clean nuclear or wind power facility that goes into planning.

 

2 - Nuclear reactors in cars is, at present time, a ridiculous scenario. The technology is too sensitive to microproduce at that level while maintaining adequate safety protocols. The most advanced and economically-feasible idea right now is NASA's idea to revolutionize fuel systems with naturally-replenishing Xenon gas. The battery/electric junkheaps being produced right now are barely cheaper than their regular gas counterparts.

 

3 - Spell. Grammar. Please. Reading this topic gave me a headache.

[Ulysses]

Lets not forget that the US isn't the only country using the Abrams tank.

 

Egypt has 555 M1A1 tanks & another 200 on order.

 

Saudi Arabia has 315 M1A2 tanks

 

Kuwait has 218 M1A2 tanks

 

Australia ordered 59 M1A1 tanks for service by 2007

 

Considering the Abrams tank could fire on average 1,000 meters further than any Iraqi tank it's pretty obvious why there were none lost. Add to that the fact the Abrams never came within 3 miles of the enemy & what enemy there was were nothing more than conscripted militia with 50yr old weapons. All of which were waving white flags long before the US even fired there 1st shot.

 

However your helicopters don't fair near as well, two blackhawks downed in Somalia & in Iraq I stopped counting after the 1st dozen or so, these weren't downed by military forces but rebels & terrorist using rifles in most cases & I heard even rocks in one case.

 

I wouldn't rely on any government to consider risks, yours mine or anyone elses for that matter, money & power is a politicians only motive today. Risks well they'll worry about that part later......if & when they get caught!!

 

Rocky Flates, isn't that the glowing area in the US we always see in photos from the space shuttle as it passes over.

 

Sorry couldn't help myself, resistance is futile....

 

yea now they all may have M1A1 tanks too, but how many do they plan to make nuclear powered? hell for all i know America will find that the Abram wont work with a small tactical nuclear device and make a new design.

 

And i can tell you that no helicopter US/Colition was taken down by a few rocks.... I find that offensive to the ppl that actualy have fought in Iraq and died. I have friends who died fighting.

 

yea and no, rocky flats does not glow....

 

I dont know why all these countries have bought the abrahams tank, as its been surpassed by the newish British Challenger 2 Tanks and the soon to be released german leppard 2 tank.

 

And it would be totally crazy to make any tank with nuclear power. One direct hit and boooooom.

 

 

[Ulysses]

Nuclear weapons do have there uses to countries that are resonsible with them, mainly as a deterant to other nations.

 

anyone heard of MAD = mutual assured destruction.

[GorunNova]

We really have to put more work into 1) productive uses for nuclear waste (i.e. some good use for something that continually pumps out energy has GOT to be useful for something ^^), and 2) fusion!

 

Radioactive waste could possibly be useful as a 'battery' for long range probes to take photos of, say Pluto and Kuiper Belt objects, if we could convert the emitted radiation into electricity in a useful way...

[bogus]

The world biggest terrorist sit in the white house anyway surrounded by a population of brainwashed puppets.

 

HEY! that remind me of something :

 

The world biggest terrorist sit in a white house surrounded by a population of brainwashed nazies

 

Same thing...just "spelled" differently....

 

You clame victory...victory against what? Like mike tyson against a 5 year old! YOU sold them the weapons...only the lowest grade and 30 years old tech....because you knew that your are about to invade someday.

 

You never fought a battle on your own soil, and after a few little bombs on some buildings...you are shaking in your boots; YOU MAKE ME LAUGHT! Your so fucking pathetic!

try your shit on countries like China or Korea...they will kick you back to the stone age!

 

Wake up stupid!

 

[Benw_w]

Well I think you have all said something.

But I think you are 'all' missing the point.

Your Fighting!!

ok so you don't use guns, but fighting is fighting.

I can not see the point to your opinion's.

Human feeling will not become free that way. The way to stop war, is to stop fighting.

Freedom from yourself, from your hate your pain and your anger. This is the way of the jedi, it is also the path to Buddhism.

Only if you discard your self-righteousness and find the path to inner peace.

If you look for answers to questions posed with anger, the answer will never be true. Find the right questions to ask and you will find the path to wisdom and peace

 

[quosego]

Well I think you have all said something.

But I think you are 'all' missing the point.

Your Fighting!!

ok so you don't use guns, but fighting is fighting.

I can not see the point to your opinion's.

Human feeling will not become free that way. The way to stop war, is to stop fighting.

Freedom from yourself, from your hate your pain and your anger. This is the way of the jedi, it is also the path to Buddhism.

Only if you discard your self-righteousness and find the path to inner peace.

If you look for answers to questions posed with anger, the answer will never be true. Find the right questions to ask and you will find the path to wisdom and peace

 

 

Btw welcome on the forum benw_w,

 

But I don't entirely agree with your statement, you say that we are fighting. But we aren't, we are exchanging opinions. Sometimes this can get a bit nasty but it usually goes quite well, if we would deny ourselves from such exchange of information I doubt we will get much wiser...

 

So maybe we just need a little bit of discussion, but this should indeed never turn to fighting.... Because it is true that some of us are a bit hot-headed.... It would be best if we could stop that all together but I don't know if this will be possible...

 

(Btw if you call this fighting, you should look in the darker places of this forum; Rura penthe, Mos eisley.. you will find some nasty posts there)

[bbbb]

I think if the US government or military is relying on other countries to allow them to drive or fly nuke powered vehicles through there countries in the future if the need arises, then the US has sadly mistaken the extent of friendship they have with other countries.

 

Good relations or not, the fact is radiation would be involved. No government would commit that kind of political suicide.

 

If the American people are willing to have nuke powered vehicles driving past there houses & schools that's there choice. I don't dispute the possible benefits nuke power could have. But from what I know of nuclear energy, mankind is still at least 50 to 100 yrs away from using it safely.

 

It's bad enough were pushing the use of battery powered vehicles, which are twice as wasteful as using oil & just as much of an environmental problem.

 

I very much doubt another world war would ever occur, there'll likely be more Iraq type situations arise in the coming years, but they'll be dealt with.

 

Terrorism on the other can't be defeated, it never has & never will be, the US isn't winning the war on terror there just escalating it to new levels.

 

Think of terrorists as a bunch of computer hackers......now follow that analogy through & you'll see it'll never end.

 

In the words of a very Pro-American pro-Bush girl I knew in my last year of high school, "we'll pay you."

 

Yes, that's it. You'll pay us so you can destroy our cities and way of life without firing a shot. Only evil people would rely on nuclear weapons just to offset a numerical imbalance. We Canadians will resist the Bush and the evil US government. A shame because all Americans are prisoners to the evil US government. If they say anything anti-Bush or anti-war they are chastised and driven out of the country. How's that for democracy?

[bbbb]

have you read what we have been talking about? I have been giving the reasons of why nuclear power should be used. i didnt say we should use a Nuke.....as a weapon.

 

I live very close to Rocky Flates, the ex-number 1 producer of nuclear weapons for the United states and producer of neclear triggers. Now when i drove past there i saw the security, not even a changling could get in there. Snipers on the roof, rotating patrols, concreat walls renforced by steel, razor wire, military presance exct....

 

But the point is that America takes the issue of necular weapons/power very serioulsy.

 

You are all assumeing that a tank will still be weak and vunerable after a nuclear reactor was put into it. When we stormed Sudams army America lost 0 tanks!!!! our Abrams where the eliet tanks on the fild. they never even saw the Abram only there shells.

 

Now our tanks where that strong while using Gas. Now imagine a tank using neclear energy.... We could shoot farther, faster, and would over all be more effective.

 

And if you are worried about the enemy getting a hold of one our tanks what the hell would they do with a pice of uranium the size of a dime or pinpoint? how would they extect it? assumeing a tank was captured by a third-world power they would not have the means to extract. I am sure that there would be safeguards. Now i am moving into speculation with my argument beacuse you are reaching to far ahead. I said that it could easily take 15-20 years before for this is practical. I am sure that our govenments will consider the risks and take care of each with respect.

 

Until then there is enough oil in the world to last at least another 100 years.

 

Assuming a great deal I think. Peace is the solution to the preceived threats to the world, not nuclear weapons. Remember Chernobyl, Three Mile Island and other nuclear mishaps. I think we should be looking 15-20 years down the road because it would be irresponsible to do otherwise. Nuclear weapons/power is too much a risk. Remember the movie Trinity and Beyond: the Atomic Bomb Movie and you'll see that nukes are bad.

 

May I add that a nuke can take out any US installation. You don't even need a nuke. Canadians in their CF-18 Hornets could take out such installations before you could shoot us down! All of our planes would be shot down due to US superiority in military power but the damage would be done and then see where we'd all be. Saddam, yes its pronounced Saddam, was heavily corrupt by 2003 and his military muscle was all but gone. His army was crap! They fled at the first sign of US superiority. It's really hard to compare the performance of US forces in Iraq because their was no enemy military to fight. If you consider insurgents and terrorists to be military then I suggest looking hard at the US military to see what actually makes up a REAL military.

 

Go Canada's military!! Military, what canadian military? Oh you mean that fat guy sitting in the lazyboy with donut crumbs all over his uniform. You know you people in the world have nothing to fear from Canada, we can't even bring a sub home on its maiden voyage so you can see how effective we are at warfare. Remember Canada's armed forces, they kill people! (they are referring to donuts you know, that's why they are all so lazy). Don't you just love the military, it makes you all warm and fuzzy on the inside.

[bbbb]

Lets not forget that the US isn't the only country using the Abrams tank.

 

Egypt has 555 M1A1 tanks & another 200 on order.

 

Saudi Arabia has 315 M1A2 tanks

 

Kuwait has 218 M1A2 tanks

 

Australia ordered 59 M1A1 tanks for service by 2007

 

Considering the Abrams tank could fire on average 1,000 meters further than any Iraqi tank it's pretty obvious why there were none lost. Add to that the fact the Abrams never came within 3 miles of the enemy & what enemy there was were nothing more than conscripted militia with 50yr old weapons. All of which were waving white flags long before the US even fired there 1st shot.

 

However your helicopters don't fair near as well, two blackhawks downed in Somalia & in Iraq I stopped counting after the 1st dozen or so, these weren't downed by military forces but rebels & terrorist using rifles in most cases & I heard even rocks in one case.

 

I wouldn't rely on any government to consider risks, yours mine or anyone elses for that matter, money & power is a politicians only motive today. Risks well they'll worry about that part later......if & when they get caught!!

 

Rocky Flates, isn't that the glowing area in the US we always see in photos from the space shuttle as it passes over.

 

Sorry couldn't help myself, resistance is futile....

 

Canada ordered a few gun turrets to put on cars. They can't rotate 360 degrees, they jam easily and they have a tendency to make the car turn over on its side after firing a shot, go Canada!