broadcast flagas that might affect future of this site!

[navin75]

A new world of anti-consumer electronics

Please pay attention to this hugely important action alert from the Electonic Frontier Foundation:

 

Hollywood Plants Its Flags in Our Homes

On Tuesday, January 24, the Senate Commerce Committee will hold hearings on government regulation of digital media in the form of the broadcast flag and the audio flag. But even before the committee hears the arguments, Hollywood lobbyists have already planned the results. Drafts are being passed around Congress by Senator Gordon Smith (D-OR) of a "Digital Content Protection Act" that would make both flags laws at a stroke.

 

If this bill were to pass, government - and the entertainment industry - would control what you could do with digital media in your home. The broadcast flag would place TV shows in a DRM ghetto, where your right to copy, back-up, sell, time-shift or convert them into formats convenient to you would be at the whim of the broadcasters. The audio flag would give the FCC matching powers over "digital audio broadcasting," including satellite radio, digital HD radio, and potentially even Internet radio. Fair use would be frozen into "customary historical use."

 

There's no benefit here for artists or customers, and for infringing copiers, evading these copy controls will be as easy as ever. No matter how inconvenienced individual users would be, pirates would be able to bypass it. The bill would usher in a new world of anti-consumer electronics and a chance for the MPAA's and RIAA's member companies to seize even greater control over all media distribution and use.

 

If you live in one of the states below, your senator is on the Senate Commerce Committee. Let him or her know that these flags would mark a new era of Hollywood's control of the home and of our digital networks.

 

You have a senator on the committee if you are a resident of Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Florida, Hawaii, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New, Hampshire, New, Jersey, North, Dakota, Oregon, South, Carolina, Texas, Virginia, Washington, or West Virginia.

 

Write to the Committee:

 

If you're not in one of those states, it's still important for you to write to your senator and representative to support DMCA reform and take some of the bite out of these

preposterous mandates.

 

Support DMCA reform.

 

More information:

 

The Draft Digital Content Protection Act: (PDF)

 

Our Analysis of the Bill

 

 

 

[theaveng]

The broadcast flag would place TV shows in a DRM ghetto' date=' where your right to copy, back-up, sell, time-shift or convert them into formats convenient to you would be at the whim of the broadcasters. [/quote']

 

So? Nobody has a right to copy & give away stuff to their friends. Sorry you don't like that fact, but it IS the truth.

 

BUT I bet the old analog recording devices like cassettes will become popular again. Analog media would immediately strip off any digital flags.

 

 

 

 

 

[moomini]

a law passed in the us congress would presuably not affect ppl not in the usa tho would it???

 

i heard once about a bloke who got a letter froom fox or wb, threatening leagal action for something, (sed they'd settle out of court for 7mil) but because he haddnt broken any uk laws, they couldnt touch him (unless he went to the us) and sed he didnt even have to respond

[Mav]

 

So? Nobody has a right to copy & give away stuff to their friends. Sorry you don't like that fact, but it IS the truth.

 

BUT I bet the old analog recording devices like cassettes will become popular again. Analog media would immediately strip off any digital flags.

 

Just to play devils advocate here troy, how do you justify posting on a forum for a major bittorrent site, when you obviously agree no one has the right to copy and give things away?

 

I'm not saying you yourself use bittorrent, I don't know that for a fact. You may or may not. Yet the forum is an aspect of the torrent site provided by Niteshdw. You won't endorse file sharing, even in a non digital form such as a copied cassette tape or cd, but you'll post quite regularly I might add, on a forum that supports such actions?

[theaveng]

So? Nobody has a right to copy & give away stuff to their friends. Sorry you don't like that fact' date=' but it IS the truth.[/quote']

Just to play devils advocate here troy, how do you justify posting on a forum for a major bittorrent site, when you obviously agree no one has the right to copy and give things away?

 

The stuff I download is (a) not available for purchase (sci-fi channel's new shows) or (b) not worth buying (trash like andromeda) and © if it is worth buying (like SG1) than I buy it. I have explained this several times. Why do I have to keep repeating myself? Why do you not pay attention? :thinking:

 

 

Bottom Line: Nothing gives anybody the right to copy & distribute the DVDs or CDs they just brought home from Walmart. Nothing. DMCA is merely a way to enforce that legal standing by making it not possible.

 

 

 

 

[Mav]

Your logic is flawed. You say you download stuff you can't buy, like new shows. Well unless some major issue comes up, new stuff is released. You site the Sci Fi channels' stuff as an example. You can bet that a few months when this season ends, you'll find SG-1 Season 9 on dvd, Atlantis season 2 on dvd and BSG season 2 on dvd. You can already buy the first ten episodes of BSG season 2 on dvd "2.0" as its called.

 

Not yet released content does not equal content not avaible, as in the short future they will be.

[Carlvsi]

Somewhat related - In the UK we have a law that states if you record something off of TV/Satalite then you are only legally allowed to keep it for 24 hours, even so the companies don`t/can`t enforce it so no-one abides(also most people don`t know about it). Whereas if you purchase a video/dvd you can copy it all you like as long as you don`t sell it or hire it out, ie profit from it.

[atgxtg]

Personally I consider the entertainment industry should go after themselves. For example if Sony Entertainment doesn't want people to copy thier programs off of TV they should stop Sony Electronics from producing VCRs and DVD recorders that do just that.

 

Hollywood should go after the companies that sell PVR/Tivo devices,including most cable companies, not the people who buy them. We didn't make all this technology to record TV shows, we just bought it and are using it as per the manufactuer's instructions.

 

In the long run, I suspect it will be all the companies that manufacture all these high tech devices that will wind up fighting Hollywood with big bucks anyway, otherwise they are going to loose thier market.

[theaveng]

Your logic is flawed. You say you download stuff you can't buy' date=' like new shows. Well unless some major issue comes up, new stuff is released... in afew months when this season ends.[/quote']

 

Okay. You're 100% correct. I could also just wait & watch these SG1/SGA on my local over-the-air tv. And I will add the DVDs to my growing library when they're released.

 

 

BUT how is my logic flawed? It does not change the fact that RIGHT NOW, I can not see the episodes except via downloading. (Since SFC is not available in Grand Rapids Michigan.) And I want to see them. So I download.

 

I see nothing wrong with that.

 

 

 

 

 

[Potato]

The US Supreme court ruled long ago that Sony can not be held responsible for people using their products to copy something. So until the Court overturns itself, which it rarely does, you shouldn't have to worry.

[Mav]

The US Supreme court ruled long ago that Sony can not be held responsible for people using their products to copy something. So until the Court overturns itself' date=' which it rarely does, you shouldn't have to worry.[/quote']

 

Yea that was an obvious thing. I mean if Sony lost, then it how long would it have taken for someone to sue Ford or Chevrolet because one of their cars was used in an accident that took someones life? The means is never really an issue its the person themselves and the act there of thats always the issues at hand, on anything.

 

Okay. You're 100% correct. I could also just wait & watch these SG1/SGA on my local over-the-air tv. And I will add the DVDs to my growing library when they're released.

 

 

BUT how is my logic flawed? It does not change the fact that RIGHT NOW, I can not see the episodes except via downloading. (Since SFC is not available in Grand Rapids Michigan.) And I want to see them. So I download.

 

I see nothing wrong with that.

 

Well, thats the argument many of us are using now. Not that it isn't "avaible" but compared to the mediums they ARE avaible in, we choose not to use those.

 

For instance you say the S.F.C isn't in your area right, ok. So your only other legal means (other than traveling to a different physical area/town) is buying the DVDs. That's the issue most of us have. Aside from the recent reductions in Trek dvd prices, if you missed the show and can't get reruns you are screwed. I mean no one unless they are rich would pay the $120 American price for them, or at least most people wouldn't.

 

Except thats not the case here. When SG-1 season 9 comes out on dvd, which I'm sure you'll find in your town in Michigan, it won't be outrageously priced. If anything, it might be marked up a few dollars since it's new but given a few weeks it'll drop to the same price range as seasons 1-8. I know for a fact I can walk into a variety of American stores and pick up seasons 1-8 for anywhere between $40 to 50 per season, a respectable price.

 

Which as you say you only pay for quality. I do as well, but since you are using the arguement of availibility in your area, I simply am pointing out given a short time span, they will be avaible and since they are of things you enjoy that you said you would buy, then you will have access to them in some medium (dvds in this case).

 

If you wish to change that stance to not having them open to you NOW well thats simply impatience, not justification for hypocrisy when it comes to disliking pirating certain things but not others all the while you are regularly posting ON a pirates forum.

 

I'm not trying to be rude, so don't take it as such and don't bother throwing a forum rule in my face cause I am discussing this in a rational calm manner. With that said, no matter how you try to put your general "im right you're wrong" spin on this, you are still being hypocritical. Now I personally don't think theres anything nesscarily wrong with such a thing, no one human in the world has gone a day where they haven't been a hypocrit on at least one minor issue if not something else. But regardless the attitude you persuay about it, really is getting to be demeaning to the rest of us. Like it's "ok" for YOU to pirate stuff, but not the rest of us. Hell more half the people here are from various countries other than America and I'd bet alot of those countries won't have access to some shows even when they are released on DVD. I'm starting to think you actually believe in some of the stuff you put down on a forum as the gospel of your life as if you truly believe in something even if its proven wrong by others. That, is never a good sign.

[theaveng]

RIGHT NOW' date=' I can not see the episodes except via downloading. (Since SFC is not available in Grand Rapids Michigan.) And I want to see them. So I download. I see nothing wrong with that. [/quote']

Well, thats the argument many of us are using now. Not that it isn't "avaible" but compared to the mediums they ARE avaible in, we choose not to use those.

What's wrong with the DVD format such that you would not want to buy it? (shrug) I really don't think "I don't want DVD" is a strong enough argument to screw actors/writers out of their bonuses. They worked hard. We enjoy watching them. Why not give them the money they deserve?

 

Also I've noticed instances where items *are* available for download (Teaching Company tapes) which is what many people want, but people still refuse to purchase. Instead of downloading legally, they just steal it. So that effectively nullifies the "we would buy it; if we could download it" argument.

 

 

For instance you say the S.F.C isn't in your area right, ok. So your only other legal means (other than traveling to a different physical area/town) is buying the DVDs.

SFC is commercial tv. SG1/SGA/BSG is supported by those commercials (and believe me, I've seen thousands on SFC, back when I was in Charlotte. I have PAID for those shows via watching those commercials). So I'm entitled to at least ONE free viewing.... either through having someone tape the show for me, or download.

 

And when the DVD comes out, even though I've already seen it, I buy it. So I *am* supporting the actors/writers unlike some of you.

 

 

That's the issue most of us have. Aside from the recent reductions in Trek dvd prices, if you missed the show and can't get reruns you are screwed. I mean no one unless they are rich would pay the $120 American price for them, or at least most people wouldn't.

Funny. You can afford a ~$1200 a year cable/internet connection, but not a $120. ??? That doesn't add up in my mind. Cancel the high-speed internet/cable & you'd be able to buy not only TNG but also DS9. Legally.

 

 

 

[atgxtg]

The US Supreme court ruled long ago that Sony can not be held responsible for people using their products to copy something. So until the Court overturns itself' date=' which it rarely does, you shouldn't have to worry.[/quote']

 

Yea that was an obvious thing. I mean if Sony lost, then it how long would it have taken for someone to sue Ford or Chevrolet because one of their cars was used in an accident that took someones life? The means is never really an issue its the person themselves and the act there of thats always the issues at hand, on anything.

 

 

 

The pronblem with that reasoning is that Ford and Chevrolet don't design and sell vehicles for the primairy purpose of getting into accident's that take peoples' lives. A TiVO, on the other hand, is designed and sold to allow the user to record broadcast TV programs.

 

"It's okay to make it, sell it, and own it, but is unlawful to use it."

 

I think sales of TiVo will drop dramtically when users wind up in jail.

 

Ditto for PVR's and VCRs and DVD recorders.

 

 

[navin75]

Here all lawmaker phone number who support the bill

 

 

20 congressjerks who want the Broadcast Flag -- give 'em a call and

give 'em what for

Twenty suicidal congresscritters are calling for the speedy adoption of

a broadcast flag, trying to unmake the work that the courts did this

past May when they killed the initiative. The broadcast flag says that

all digital TV technology has to be approved by Hollywood's

bought-and-paid-for regulators, and the rubric for it is that if we

don't give Hollywood this unprecedented veto, they'll stop making stuff

available for digital TV. Note that no one in Hollywood has ever

promised that they will produce DTV high-def content if they get this

dumb rule -- this isn't even very convincing blackmail.

Is your congressjerk on the list below? Give her or him a call, and let

it be known that elected lawmakers who break their constituents'

televisions don't get re-elected.

 

 

Find out if your rep is on the list here.

 

 

John Shadegg, R-AZ, (202) 225-3361

Mary Bono, R-CA, (202) 225-5330

George Radanovich, R-CA, (202) 225-4540

John Shimkus, R-IL (202) 225-5271

Bobby Rush, D-IL, (202) 225-4372

Ed Whitfield, R-KY, (202) 225-3115

Albert Wynn, D-MD, (202) 225-8699

Charles Pickering, R-MS, (202) 225-5031

Lee Terry, R-NE, (202) 225-4155

Charles Bass, R-NH, (202) 225-5206

Mike Ferguson, R-NJ, (202) 225-5361

Frank Pallone, D-NJ, (202) 225-4671

Eliot Engel, D-NY, (202) 225-2464

Vito Fossella, R-NY, (202) 225-3371

Edolphus Towns, D-NY, (202) 225-5936

John Sullivan, R-OK, (202) 225-2211

Michael Doyle, D-PA, (202) 225-2135

Marsha Blackburn, R-TN, (202) 225-2811

Bart Gordon, D-TN, (202) 225-4231

Charles Gonzalez, D-TX, (202) 225-3236

I

 

 

 

[navin75]

I watched a Senate panel debate on CSPAN2 today (that took place on Tuesday) about this bill and the broadcast flag. Senator Ted Stevens (R - Alaska), led the panel. It's quite apparent the broadcast flag is coming, not if, but when, as Senator Stevens among several other Republican members of the panel said they plan on getting the broadcast flag adopted ASAP.

 

Of course the notorious Mitch Bainwol of the RIAA was present, and it was quite amusing to watch Senator Sununu run circles around him about the subject of royalty payments to performers and about how the flag will never get adopted on his watch without exceptions being made to exclude TiVo and other TiVo-like devices, excluding computer-based DVRs like MythTV, current model iPods, and cell phones, public domain content, news casts, political content in the form of video or audio, webcasts, podcasts, and educational use by schools and libraries from being affected by this flag. According to the Senator, "Consumers have the right to time-shift, create as many personal backups as they like, and no matter if you like it or not, they have the right to transfer the media content they paid for to whatever device they own at their own discretion, provided they do not distribute the materials to parties outside of the home." You should have seen old Mitchy-boy's face when he heard that.

 

They said computers, cd, and dvd recorders however will fall under direct application of the broadcast flag (the aforementioned MythTV, and other computer-based recording setups are the primary target of this flag after all). What was interesting to note, is that the representative of the hardware industry basically told the panel and Mr. Bainwol that any current technological products and any coming up within the next year would NOT be taken off the market and retooled to work with this flag. They also said however, that upcoming versions of the same products released after fiscal years 2006-2007 are subject to broadcast flag requirements IF a bill implementing the flag gets passed. Basically this means that if you want to get gear that won't bow down to the flag, you better buy it now before it is too late, because in the near future, you won't be able to get it anymore.

 

According to the equipment mentioned, here is a short list of what I heard the flag will apply to:

 

Sound cards <-computer

 

Video cards <-computer

 

cd burners <-both computer and stand-alone, with stand-alone recorders ignoring the flag for designated materials, equipment must still allow backup copies of purchased discs under Fair Use

 

dvd burners <-both computer and stand-alone, with stand-alone recorders ignoring the flag for designated materials, equipment must still allow backup copies of purchased discs under Fair Use

 

crt monitors <-computer

 

MP3s, MP4s, etc, etc, purchased via online services (this one was only listed as a possibility, they don't know quite how they would get it to work yet, the hardware components however, already have plenty of stuff in store)

 

lcds <- television and computer-based models

 

plasma screens <- television and computer-based models

 

future models of video iPods

 

future models of audio iPods

 

future models of generic portable MP3 players

 

future models of generic portable video players

 

home versions of blu-ray and hd-dvd players, provided that there is still some mechanism available for the consumer to create perfect backups of their purchased discs under Fair Use

 

blu-ray and hd-dvd burners for the computer

 

hd radios <-excluding news, sports, political, educational, talk radio and public domain programming

 

hd television sets not using lcd or plasma technology

 

 

Kind of a long short list, and I am sure I forgot a few things, but basically that is the gist of it.

 

Apparently the target of the flag is not people who use TiVo, not people who record songs off the radio, but people who record songs, shows, etc and put them up on Kazaa, Bit Torrent, etc. for distribution. This broadcast flag it seems, is directly aimed at internet "copyright infringers".

[zara127]

Up here in Canada we hear all of this but the major networks and newspapers only very infrequently report the legal issues as they pertain to this country. This being the case I thought I'd make it clear to my fellow Canucks that pirating is absolutely legal here provided its noy for profit. The major media companies forced a Bill throiugh some time after the invention or recordable audio and video tapes that enabled them to collect a small surcharge on the sale of each tape. This was extended to cd-roms and Hard-drives later on. This sounds bad but as a result when those same companies attempted to go after downloaders etc. the courts ruled that they had already been paid for the use of their matials in the form of the surcharge.

 

[zara127]

It may be a stretch but it seems to me that if one were an american and one were to buy their hard-drive from a canadian company one would have paid for the rights to nearly anything they want to download. The surcharge btw is somewhere in the range of a few cents per hundred dollars. That's what I call a bargain :)

[Mav]

blah blah blah forum trolling blah blah blah

 

You really frakked up on two parts of your "arguement".

 

1) you said you still will buy the dvd's of these shows you want when they come out even if you've seen them, cause you wanna support whoever.

 

so you admit you will pirate them despite the fact you know they are coming out in a short amout of time (within 6-12 months). either way you are pirating them along with us. you are no better than the rest of us pirates. just because you eventually buy something even after you've pirated it doesn't magically make it ok to pirate it at any point in time. Yes, you are supporting the cast/crew/whoever by buying such products and merchandise but you still, illegally, pirated these at some point. Even with commericals, if they are even included in the encode, it is still illegal (in America where you and I live) to transmitt those files with other users[/b] which you are more than likely doing when you use bittorrent.

 

2) "$1200 a year for high speed cable/dsl internet instead of $120 for a dvd"

 

Nice assumptions. You're wrong. Before tax my monthly cable bill is $45.99 USD after tax it is $49.59 USD. 12 months in a year, including tax, comes to $595.08 USD. Which yes you are right, I can go back to dial up like it is 1994 again. At $10.79 USD including tax, per month for the cheapest dial up in my area, that comes to $129.48. So hey instead of having the internet at all, why don't I take that $129 bucks and go buy one single dvd set for the entire year, and not even have enough change left over for 1 month of dial up access!

 

Now when you consider tv shows are only 50% of my entertainment, that more than justifies $600 a year for high speed cable. I play many online multiplayer games which definitely benefit from a low ping time, I unlike some dial up users, enjoy keeping my IRC client on 24/7, I enjoy being able to download patches for both games and applications (Windows..) that won't take me ten years to complete (Can you imagine trying to download XP service pack 2 on DIAL UP?!?).

 

See while I can understand supporting creator's of things, I have two very open minded view points that you just cannot comprehend:

 

You cannot accept the fact you, are a pirate. No matter how you spin it, you are a pirate. In your mind, in whatever the name is of your own little reality you live in, you are a pirate right along side the rest of us. You will never justify it too us, and you can claim all you want it only matters to you not what we think but that doesn't change the facts of reality.

 

My own personal opinion is, while if I myself could afford too (along with my "expensive" high speed internet access) buy the dvd sets I would, I still believe I am being ripped off. Think about it, a basic cable tv package gets you all the channels most good shows come onto. The way they pay for it as you've pointed out is those precious commericals. Guess what, when Star Trek (any of them) were on tv you know what I did most of time during commericals? I changed the channel to a show that wasn't having a commerical brake. I have no legal obligation to watch commericals when I view television, I'm not going to buy these products they try to shove down my throat. In akin to that, even when I do buy stuff I still feel like I'm paying for something I shouldn't have too. It's on tv, for free at some point, other than your basic material cost for the casing and dvds it should not be but maybe $5 (an entire spindle of blank dvd's costs like 8 cents to produce in a factory).

 

But that's ok, on all issues. Know why it's ok? Cause I know you're just going to reply, and flame flame flame, thats all your mind can comprehend. Turning people's words back around on them, you'd make the perfect rules lawyer in any board game or pen/paper rpg.

[theaveng]

theaveng.... forum trolling blah blah

 

 

If you can't make an argument without Ad hominem Attacks (name-calling), then don't post.

 

I refuse to listen to people who lack basic manners.

 

Rephrase your argument without the insults, then I will listen.

 

[Mav]

It's not an insult, it's fact. It's proven you just troll these forums, looking for opportunities to make demeaning remarks and just outright a bad attitude towards fellow forum goers whom have done nothing to you at all. Maybe some other people will hold their tongue and not say sh*t to you but I will.