Guest c4evap Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 NEWS FLASH The UK music industry has won a landmark court case in its fight against illegal online music sharing. High Court judges ordered two men to pay the British Phonographic Industry between £1,500 and £5,000 for making thousands of songs available online. One of the men said he did not know he was acting illegally. The other said there was no evidence against him. The BPI has launched 139 similar cases since October 2004, most being settled out of court for up to £6,500. The two men, who the BPI decided not to name in publicising the cases, were accused along with three others of using peer-to-peer software to share 8,906 songs over the internet. The cases, in which both men were ordered to stop sharing files illegally, were the first of their kind to be heard in the British courts. Cases are pending against the other three people, who also refused to settle with the BPI. No financial gain The first defendant, from King's Lynn, said the BPI had no direct evidence of infringement, but the judges dismissed this and ordered him to make an immediate payment of £5,000. His total costs are estimated at £13,500 and damages are expected to take the bill even higher. The other man, a postman from Brighton, said he was unaware that what he was doing was illegal and did not seek to gain financially. His case was also thrown out, with Judge Justice Lawrence Collins declaring: "Ignorance is not a defence". The postman, who is a father of two, was ordered to make an immediate payment of £1,500, pending final determination of costs and damages. A further 51 illegal file-sharers have been given a deadline of 31 January to settle cases and avoid court action. The BPI says it believes internet music-swapping has led to a decline in sales of singles since 1999. The organisation's lawyers called the decision a "massive step forward" for the industry's fight against illegal file-sharing. BPI chairman Peter Jamieson said illegal music-swappers were "stealing the future of artists and the people who invest in them". Geez. What the heck did they even invent the internet for anyway? Thoughts people? c4 B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StitchInTime Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Geez. What the heck did they even invent the internet for anyway? I don't know. I wasn't in the area at the time. ;) Let the music play! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 What's the difference between downloading the song, or recording it from the radio? .......Commercials? This "Napster Crap" was nothing but a money-grab from the beginning, rich fat-cats getting richer. ......Smedley needs petrol for the limo, you see. *barf* :stare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 SNIPPET: What's the difference between downloading the song, or recording it from the radio? .......Commercials? Nothing as far as I can see. It's OK for me to record a TV show on my VCR but if I download the very same EP from the net I can go to jail. Both situations (music/TV) are the same and neither makes any sense. c4 :stare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steveo Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 There was a lot of hooha in the early days of beta/vhs about the legality of recording from TV, and that seems to have worked itself out, but possibly because it's a) hard to track b) hard to prove. With the internet, however, you've got an ISP with your name, and a hard drive full of evidence. Perhaps this will die down, or it'll continue to be the industry scapegoat for the fact music is changing, and who the hell buys singles anyway, they're pointless. I love owning CDs, and I buy a lot of them, but not before knowing if I want it, via downloading. I think it's just too easy to prosecute these people, and so it will continue, until someone realises that the music industry can't keep taking 1/4+ people in a country to court without it being damaging to themselves. In my humble opinion, single sales have dropped because music has gotten worse over the past few years :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaveng Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 What's the difference between downloading the song' date=' or recording it from the radio? .......Commercials?[/quote'] In a word - "yes". Even if you copy a song off the radio, the Singers/writers/et cetera still get paid via the corporations handing over money. If you download a song, they get $ZERO. Me, I used to record stuff off the radio, but now that I'm grown up I lack the time to do that. Instead I just buy the "greatest hits" cds. That way I'm supporting the singers/writers/et cetera with my cash. Also you guys always talk about the "rich fat cats" but you forget about all the low-level employees. For you to steal music/shows illegally, is equivalent to someone stealing the XYZ Widgets that YOUR company produces. How would you like to be laid-off, because someone is stealing your company's products? Not much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceedj Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 If you download a song, they get $ZERO. You know what's funny about that? In the US, artists get LESS THAN ZERO if you buy a CD. Unless that artist is selling more than 500,000 units, the artist is generally losing money, and is better off working at a 7-11. Now, this is only with the major lables. Most independants will get an artist more money, but because of the grip that the RIAA and Clear Channel have on the industry, they get no radio airplay, and almost no way to get into major venues. If we're lucky, the industry will die someday soon, and we can get some music that is written and performed by actual musicians on the radio. Hey, I can dream, can't I? :) Personally, I LOVE it when I see my stuff on WinMX, because it's getting more play than it would anywhere else. I sold quite a few discs to people who "downloaded" my music first. I think I'd rather be well known than super rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 What's the difference between downloading the song' date=' or recording it from the radio? .......Commercials?[/quote'] In a word - "yes". Even if you copy a song off the radio, the Singers/writers/et cetera still get paid via the corporations handing over money. If you download a song, they get $ZERO. Me, I used to record stuff off the radio, but now that I'm grown up I lack the time to do that. Instead I just buy the "greatest hits" cds. That way I'm supporting the singers/writers/et cetera with my cash. Also you guys always talk about the "rich fat cats" but you forget about all the low-level employees. For you to steal music/shows illegally, is equivalent to someone stealing the XYZ Widgets that YOUR company produces. How would you like to be laid-off, because someone is stealing your company's products? Not much. GEE-SUS dude. If you are soooo against downloading...WTF are you doing on this site. Almost every post of yours contains the same tired drone (ad nauseum)! I think I hear that BBS in Penn calling your name...come back Troy...come back... c4 :thinking: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mav Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 Don't try to use reason or logic with troy, it's like trying to talk to a brickwall. It's ok for him to use a forum based off a pirating website but if the topic is brought up he's rallying aganist it with the conviction of a religous zealot. It's like Field of Dreams but in reverse. Instead of "if you build it he will come" it's more like "if we ignore him he will go away". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaveng Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 I've reported the last two posts from C4 and Mav. Why you guys think it's acceptable to attack other people is beyond me. All I did was an express an opinion that these thieves deserved what they got. I'm sorry you don't like that opinion, but that does not entitle you to personally attack me. Attack the idea, NOT the person. <--Basic manners. If you download a song, they get $ZERO. You know what's funny about that? In the US, artists get LESS THAN ZERO if you buy a CD. Unless that artist is selling more than 500,000 units, the artist is generally losing money, and is better off working at a 7-11. Hmmm. That's news to me. Can you provide links to articles which Provide Stats supporting this claim? Thanks! :cyclops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mav Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 C4's a moderator, I somehow don't think reporting him/her will do much good. As for myself, well when you get off your high horse of hypocrisy maybe then I'll stop calling you out on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceedj Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 1) http://downhillbattle.org - a non-profit organization working to support participatory culture and build a fairer music industry. 2) http://www.negativland.com/albini.html - an article by producer Steve Albini which pretty much sums up the US music industry. 3) Tattle-tailing is seriously weak dude. That's not an attack on you; rather, it's an attack on your IDEA. Which sucks. Just sayin'. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaveng Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 Thanks. That was an eye-opening article. Still does NOT justify stealing other people's songs. You say you offer your songs for P2P sharing... but that's *voluntary* sharing. You wouldn't like P2P if people just stole your songs w/o your permission. 2. No foul' date=' obscene, or demeaning language.[/b'] -- Let's try to keep the site 'family friendly'. Also, please refrain from making comments regarding race, religion, sexual orientation, or web browser usage. Some people can be very offended if they are told that Firefox is a crappy browser. 4. Please be kind and curtious in your responses -- If we are to build a community, let us be helpful and kind to those asking for our assistance. Please remember the words of our beloved Captain and philosopher, Jean-Luc Picard: "We seek to better ourselves." Let us build a little of our own 24th century utopia here! "Troy is redundant" - "Troy is a churl" - "Troy is a child" ----- ALL of these violate the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceedj Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 1) http://futureofmusic.org/contractcrit.cfm - read this. 2) Re-read Albini's article. He DID produce one of the biggest selling albums of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahaha Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 "Ignorance is not a defence" They must have slept through the part of law class where they taught; YES, ignorance IS a defence. In certain situations. You have it from a person who DID take a law class.+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StitchInTime Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 Don't try to use reason or logic with troy' date=' it's like trying to talk to a brickwall. . . . "if we ignore him he will go away".[/quote'] How will ignoring a brick wall make it go away? ;) Sharing music rocks. :cyclops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Hmm... I don't suppose you've got some extra music rocks to spare? I've never listened to a music rock before. ;) Anyways... how's this for a compromise? Do some research, figure out what artists -are- getting ripped off by their big label distributor, and download THOSE songs for free as a statement against the exploitation done by big labels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahaha Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Don't try to use reason or logic with troy' date=' it's like trying to talk to a brickwall.[/quote'] Chuck Norris is the only man to win an arguement, against a brick wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StitchInTime Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Hmm... I don't suppose you've got some extra music rocks to spare? I've never listened to a music rock before. ;) Here comes one now. :cyclops: You'd better DUCK!!! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palantas Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I do think that downloading music, movies, and similar media is somewhat stealing in so far as I'm enjoying an intellectual property without paying anything for it. I also really don't care. I bought all Babylon 5 on DVD for about $50 a season. Then a friend of mine got me on to downloading TV shows, so I get to watch Star Trek other neat stuff for free. It really doesn't bother me that some fat cat's making less money or some poor CD factory worker's children are going hungry. Besides, I'm only stealing from a single industry. That money I saved on Family Guy DVDs I'm going to spend on wine or watches or some other commodity I enjoy. So it's not like I'm hurting the economy. In regards to the fat cats, I can't blame them for trying to protect their bottom line. They're going to lose eventually, I think. Radio, TV shows, and movies are going to be largely subscription based in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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