jhug666 Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Garth Said "Its nice to see others willing to fight against the great Satan formerly the British Empire Now the USA" . now where has the term great Satan been used before? oh of course False Muslims who want to spread the word of Allah by the sword. Now Garth i have no idea whatsoever of your personal faith, but as a Muslim i find it worrying that terms sprouted by extremeists have found there way into common useage. as a piece of friendly advice i'd avoid using such terms in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 The MOD's on this site hate me with a passion any ways' date=' so I would not put to much faith in their "flights of fancy".[/quote'] Not true! I don't hate you at all. :stare: :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 To achieve full understanding of something you must see the entire picture... "Strike the Infidel about the neck" ....Holy Koran Sounds pretty complete to me! :stare: :stare: :stare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 ( I know some lame person is gonna say, "hey that is exactly what America is" But America has a stable goverment elected by ALL the ppl) Yes - because the American political system is internationally known for being beyond reproach and there could be no conflict of interest in a presidential candidate's brother having the final say over a swing state. And of course, Iran HAD a democratically elected government until 1953 when the CIA replaced it with a hereditary monarchy that eliminated civil liberties - although admittedly Britain was somewhat complicit too. Why does my age matter? I was just curious as to whether you were young or dyslexic. pacifist... Not really - for the record had the decision been mine I wouldn't have declared war on Hitler but that's another matter entirely. I simply feel that Britain shouldn't waste its money on the costly process of armed invasion. The USA shouldn't be too keen to go at Iraq, Bush hasn't exactly done a great job with the economy and the kind of expenditure to wage war on Iran would probably tip the USA into a depression. Which would screw everyone over. I am willing to stop something befor eit becomes a problem Ever heard the expression "fools rush in"? Google it, quite a few results mention a certain war on Iraq. One of them said; "I do this for Aliha".... I assume you mean Allah - funny thing, Bush talked a lot about God before going to war with Iraq? And that torturing you mention... didn't America torture prisoners? In fact, isn't it still flying people around to countries where it can do that? They might not be broadcasting it but it is happening. Seems that a lot of things you hate about the enemy are being perpetrated by your side. there is the same underlinging factor of the world on the brink of war. That's just about the only parallel. Besides, surely if it's like WW2 - then America can afford to sit around and wait for a while? One feels that it's perhaps because America sat around during WW2 they've been trying to make sure that it never happens again. Rather unfortunate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quosego Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 To achieve full understanding of something you must see the entire picture... "Strike the Infidel about the neck" ....Holy Koran Sounds pretty complete to me! :stare: :stare: :stare: I must have missed that part..... Were in the Koran did you find that.... I couldn't find it anywhere.... However I could find the exact lines in the bible.......... Exodus 22 line 19 Who doesn't only believe in the lord must be killed. 'Long life christianity' This just shows, that neither should be taken to seriously.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberbob Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Look at what took over when the colonial powers left that nice democrat in Zimbabwe a Fool running South Africa who denies Aids has anything to do with sex Riiiiiiiight because the whites in South Africa who were essentially robbing them of their diamonds and paying half of the population in alcohol were several steps up? please... Besides, that country was not like that before the British came...hell...NONE of Africa was that messed up before the British came. Africa really was an amazing place before Europeans stepped in. They had the largest empires built primarily through trade and not through war. They had tons of gold, ivory and livestock. Read about their history and you'll learn a lot. Its not like the Europeans went...oh...well now that we have stolen everything from you and destroyed your societies we are gonna make sure to set everything up really nice for you before you leave. They left Africa much much much worse off than it had been before they arrive so comparing Africa's current leaders to the previous whites is kind of misleading... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Empire bashing is such a populist movement - always finding the cloud in every silver lining. Like American bashing I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostShadow Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 ok, well I dont know about you, and I really dont care to know about you, but every musilm I have meet or dealt with has been narrow minded, and is on par to the avarage evangelical Christain who is too, willing to die for their religion. And that scares me when the avarge mentality of a religion is as extreme as an evangelical. The fastest growing religion in the grand USofA is Christanity my friend. There may be more immagrants that are musilm, but no, more ppl are becoming Christian or converting. EDIT: Look at these sites and tell me I am wornge.... Muslim Violence GRAPICH IMAGE WARNING GRAPICH IMAGE WARNING now I realize that not all musims are like this, but all the ones that I know take their religion JUST as seriously... You do know how this is called; propaganda.... You show shocking images to proof that some muslims are assholes.... I'm now going to proof that some americans are assholes.... Graphic content Graphic content The result we now have proofed that some americans are assholes and some muslims are assholes.... Not the one-sided some muslims are assholes. To achieve full understanding of something you must see the entire picture... Ass for muslims being narrwominded so are pro-iraq/iran war people, you also take your religion/thoughts very seriously.... The diffrence between your arguement and Mine is simple, I was stating that ll the musilms I know are narrow minded. THAT IS ONLY ALL THE MUSILMS I KNOW. NOT ALL OF THE MUSILMS IN THE WORLD. I have just recived a negitive prespective of that religion, it doesn not mean it IS a negitive relgion, "To each their own" What you are arguing is that all americans are assholes, and yes there are some of us that are ass holes, and you have every right to think that we are. but agian, this is not about what I think about muslims. This is about what I think is good FOR AMERICANS! I could not care less about you or your country in this decision. All That I think about is, how this will effect Aemrica, and how will America become safer. And then I think that disarming Iran would make America safer. If you think that Leaving Iran with the potential to destroy a city is safer for your country, then far be it for me to do anything. Go ahead and call Americans Ass holes, I couldnt care less what ya'll think about my country. but when you go off and spit out insults and I sit here trying to explain myslef then I think it speaks volumes about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Damn, we're all out of popcorn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostShadow Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 ( I know some lame person is gonna say' date=' "hey that is exactly what America is" But America has a stable goverment elected by ALL the ppl) [/quote'] Yes - because the American political system is internationally known for being beyond reproach and there could be no conflict of interest in a presidential candidate's brother having the final say over a swing state. And of course, Iran HAD a democratically elected government until 1953 when the CIA replaced it with a hereditary monarchy that eliminated civil liberties - although admittedly Britain was somewhat complicit too. Why does my age matter? I was just curious as to whether you were young or dyslexic. pacifist... Not really - for the record had the decision been mine I wouldn't have declared war on Hitler but that's another matter entirely. I simply feel that Britain shouldn't waste its money on the costly process of armed invasion. The USA shouldn't be too keen to go at Iraq, Bush hasn't exactly done a great job with the economy and the kind of expenditure to wage war on Iran would probably tip the USA into a depression. Which would screw everyone over. I am willing to stop something befor eit becomes a problem Ever heard the expression "fools rush in"? Google it, quite a few results mention a certain war on Iraq. One of them said; "I do this for Aliha".... I assume you mean Allah - funny thing, Bush talked a lot about God before going to war with Iraq? And that torturing you mention... didn't America torture prisoners? In fact, isn't it still flying people around to countries where it can do that? They might not be broadcasting it but it is happening. Seems that a lot of things you hate about the enemy are being perpetrated by your side. there is the same underlinging factor of the world on the brink of war. That's just about the only parallel. Besides, surely if it's like WW2 - then America can afford to sit around and wait for a while? One feels that it's perhaps because America sat around during WW2 they've been trying to make sure that it never happens again. Rather unfortunate. You didnt see bush cut off the head of an Iraqi while he was still alive screaming in pain crying for help, while saying it... And so why are Amreicans or I a fool agian? because we want to eliminate a threat BEFORE that treat gets nukes? I call that initiative. I call wating around with a thumb up your bum, Stupid, ignorant, and whishful thinking. And also for the record, I would not have delcared war on Hitler either, At all. Also, why would you say I am dyslexic? just beacuse I dont care enough about this site to make my post 100% error free? No, I am not dyslexic btw. And yes, American Political system does have some dispute, but our Government is elected by all voters. They all may not vote for the same person, but they are elected non the less. When I was talking about the unstable Government in Iran, i was referring to tha MASS MAJORITY that doesn not agree with its Government, and would love nothing more than to see it removed. And Going to war with Iran might not be the right term, how about throwing this goverment out the window like the last one? I guess we did it once before, we have a lot of practice at it, it should be a simple task, and it would be a lot cheaper than War. would that make you happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beawulf Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 This is about what I think is good FOR AMERICANS! I could not care less about you or your country in this decision. All That I think about is' date=' how this will effect Aemrica, and how will America become safer.[/quote'] And Going to war with Iran might not be the right term' date=' how about throwing this goverment out the window like the last one? I guess we did it once before, we have a lot of practice at it[/quote'] wow that is so much like the US foreign policy and environmental policies it is scary. It is that sort of attitude that has turned so many people against the US. Perhaps if the US hadnt continually interfered with the governments of sovereign nations they wouldnt be fighting a war with terrorists now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberbob Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Perhaps if the US hadnt continually interfered with the governments of sovereign nations they wouldnt be fighting a war with terrorists now. EXACTLY!!!!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Ghost Shadow, you're doing a rather super job of ignoring the fact that America has pretty much generated all the current problems it's facing because of ill-advised foreign policy. Feel free to try regime change again - you can do it again. Just remember though, that's how you got into this mess in the first place. Your inability to see how you're proposing what amounts to the same mistake your country has been making for the past 50 years is funny though. Just what is America going to do when it's not the biggest dog in the yard though Ghost Shadow? It's not far off. Your appreciation of history clearly isn't too broad so I'll put it in nice simple terms for you - what goes around, comes around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garth Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Look at what took over when the colonial powers left that nice democrat in Zimbabwe a Fool running South Africa who denies Aids has anything to do with sex Riiiiiiiight because the whites in South Africa who were essentially robbing them of their diamonds and paying half of the population in alcohol were several steps up? please... Besides, that country was not like that before the British came...hell...NONE of Africa was that messed up before the British came. Do we assume you are an Irish American and hence your anxiety over the British or as you have some accounts from Africa perhaps you are several hundred years old and were there at the time? its always easy to bash someone historically when the history is written subsequently to suit a modern view of things. Indeed if you are so unhappy and feel the need to put things right you can always move there and do the voluntary work at your own expense, some of us have done so and tried to help but their is still corruption that is down to the greed of the individual. When did the Africans develop shaft mining for gold & diamonds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberbob Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Do we assume you are an Irish American and hence your anxiety over the British or as you have some accounts from Africa perhaps you are several hundred years old and were there at the time? its always easy to bash someone historically when the history is written subsequently to suit a modern view of things. I am a mixed American.....my mom is black and french creole and my father is English and German....btw...history is written by the victors.... When did the Africans develop shaft mining for gold & diamonds? The Bantu speaking Munhumutapa kingdom was pulling over a ton of gold a year from mines that were over 100 feet deep in the early 12th century. I am not 100s of years old nor am I Irish, I just read a lot and often and when I read I try to get works from all views and see where each one of those views gets the facts from which it derives its position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 These days, reading a lot of things will just slant you in an anti-colonial direction. The way people talk about Colonialism these days, you'd think it was common practice for the first son of every native family to be murdered, the wives raped and villages summarily razed to the ground just because it was a bit of a laugh. Britain is extremely embarassed about the whole Empire thing - which is a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberbob Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 These days, reading a lot of things will just slant you in an anti-colonial direction. I just read a lot and often and when I read I try to get works from all views and see where each one of those views gets the facts from which it derives its position. I said that I try to read both sides' arguments and then look at where they get the information from to support their arguments and then try to pick the truth from both based off of the 3rd party info that I can find. After reading everything from textbooks from my great grandmother (she was a school teacher) from the 1940s-50s to modern books on all sorts of world history I have come to the conclusions that I post. Its not like a read a liberal newspaper every day and then go out and spout its contents on message boards :p (which a lot of people admittedly do.....then again so do a lot of right wing conservatives...). I suppose that there were some good things that came from it but I very much disagree that those good things come anywhere close to outweighing the bad things. I seem to be having a brain fart right now but I think Mr Livingston was the name of a man who did great things in Africa in the mid-1850s but the few steps that he took hardly make up for the millions of people and tens of cultures destroyed by European countries. That is something that I must apologize for as well. While the English did the most damage as far as slavery is concerned, the Dutch and the Portugese empires did far far worse damage in other areas. Now dont get me wrong, this is not to say that the modern people of GB or the US are bad. I just dont agree with much of what they have done throughout history. Lol, then again - you know what they say "hindsight is 20/20" and to be honest, I doubt that any country would have that great of a track record were it to end up on top. That still doesnt excuse it though. If I am given power and abuse it, just because everyone else out there would abuse it to doesnt make it ok that I did. I dont know...I guess the world and the direction it is going in just scare me and I guess that I hope that the better we preach the mistakes of the past, the less likely we will be to repeat them. Blame it on Star Trek!!! lol. I just keep thinking about how it took us another big war to make us all realize how stupid we were and that only after that war were we able to step up to the plate as a race civilized enough to garner the attention of others in the galaxy. I want the Vulcans to come now, not in another 50 years once we have blown ourselves to bits!!! :cyclops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Have you read Niall Ferguson's "Empire - How Britain Made The Modern World". If not, we can continue when you've divulged it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steveo Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 It seems to be well reviewed, it's not often someone presents a balanced argument these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beawulf Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 cant really have a balanced argument these days, when everything gets forced into being either black or white....."you're either with us, or against us" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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