TetsuoShima Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/72085 They are appealing the ruling, but still, this is very bad news... And it doesn't make sense at all to me. Like when you go to a pub and some guy says: "I hate Jews"(I don't, it's just an example), is the pub owner responsible for that comment? I don't think so, not if he doesn't support and allow it. I don't see how a forum is any different. I know this isn't the first time these kind of rulings have been made, but it is still very disturbing to me. No more freedom of speech people: "you will shut up, or we'll throw you in jail and fine you to bankruptcy". What is this? The middle ages? :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 I'm also disgusted at the 'forums are business operations' concluion. Sure, in some cases it may be... but the majority of forums aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlvsi Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 I must be careful what I post here. Bluntly, what a daft ruling. It sounds as thought the judge doesn`t even really know what a forum is or how they work. As far as I know you and your fellow brethren don`t get paid, do you??? Surely this type of thing is covered by the membership rules about posting. How long were the comments/requests on the forum? If it had been going on for some time then, maybe they have something but even so some forums have hundreds of posts a day, they can`t expect people to be watching what people post exactly as it happens. The court held that a publisher would have been able to prevent such incitations by "reviewing the content of the comments before publishing them." The court clearly did not believe Heise Zeitschriften Verlag's argument that constant reviewing of the content of more than 200,000 comments per month would be an unreasonable burden on the publisher. Madness, is all I can think to say. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steveo Posted April 23, 2006 Share Posted April 23, 2006 I do have to agree that forum administrators have a duty to control content to some extent and remove libelous or illegal postings. However, saying that, I do think users should be the more responsible ones, and forum administrators be placed more in a roll of facilitating removal than censorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motoxjesse Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 I think that their should be some kind of law passed that makes it inposible for people to be apointed judges in cases they dont fully understand, if you dont know wat a torrent is then shut up and learn so you can make a proper decision, and the same goes for forums, if you dont know wat that is either then do some research.....geez, i mean most of these silly cases are due to peoples missunderstanding...am i wrong??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Me thinks the "judge" (can't post what I was gonna call him) is an idiot. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...Germany huh? Didn't the Nazis start out by muzzling free speech? Same country - go figure... c4 B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 The problem with the Internet is, it's a lot like the real world in that it's full of - mainly - morons. Unlike the real world, people will seldom feel that there is any actual physical danger of them expressing an opinion. Naturally, that makes it substantially easier to mouth off and/or say controversial things... sadly, many use this power for lame instead of awesome. I've no idea how the Germany legal system appoints its judges... but if it's anything like the system in the UK, it means that the people in judge positions are likely to be totally out of touch with the "common people" - let alone technical matters. Forums don't count as businesses anymore than a bunch of people gathering in a park or street or anything. I'd say the vast majority of forums are not for profit. Needless to say though, the legal system has been getting it wrong for centuries - why should it start being infallible now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabrood Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Me thinks the "judge" (can't post what I was gonna call him) is an idiot. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...Germany huh? Didn't the Nazis start out by muzzling free speech? Same country - go figure... c4 B) Does every single Germany-related thread have to end up with someone acussing us of beeing some sort of post-nazis (whether it's ironic or not)? Cut the crap guys and discuss on an adult level for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Yeah, it's a bit boring really and rather childish - as if no other country in the world has moments in its past that it would rather forget. In Britain I imagine we're in for a lot of "Two World Wars and One World Cup" sentiment as the Germany 2006 approaches. Honestly, you'd think that all England had achieved in its entire history were those three things... although, given the level of education in this country I can find it eminently believable that most people believe that. Ah, misanthropy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Me thinks the "judge" (can't post what I was gonna call him) is an idiot. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...Germany huh? Didn't the Nazis start out by muzzling free speech? Same country - go figure... c4 B) Does every single Germany-related thread have to end up with someone acussing us of beeing some sort of post-nazis (whether it's ironic or not)? Cut the crap guys and discuss on an adult level for a change. My comment was not meant to offend. If it did...sorry. Not my intention. Oh and, to clarify my comments...I did not acuse you or the rest of Germany of being nazis...just the "judge". It IS a fact however that Germany still has neo-nazis (to be fair so does America and many other countries). Please try not to put words into my mouth. Thank u. Again, if I offended...sorry. Yeah, it's a bit boring really and rather childish - as if no other country in the world has moments in its past that it would rather forget. In Britain I imagine we're in for a lot of "Two World Wars and One World Cup" sentiment as the Germany 2006 approaches. Honestly, you'd think that all England had achieved in its entire history were those three things... although, given the level of education in this country I can find it eminently believable that most people believe that. Ah, misanthropy. Childish...so you add to it with your comments instead of letting it go...well, that is your right...but does it actually help anything? However, let me offer you a preemptive "I'm sorry" if I've misconstrued your intentions. c4 :thinking: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 It's insane... Their ruling is like demanding Nite to personally review and edit every single post on this forum -immediately- or be charged with any violations that pop up. The judge was looking at online forums and -thinking- publishing company, with the forum owner (or 'publisher') being responsible for every word 'published'... Forums are places where people hold casual conversation online, not friggin' publishing houses... That judge really must be an idiot if he couldn't see the difference. Even worse, he probably saw the difference and ignored it to force his own opinions into law - a very, very bad thing for a judge to be doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amnot Borg Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Judges are people with opinions too. Some people make dumb decisions. 'nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S0V13T Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 *Not a dig, or show of disrespect towards the forum mods / administration* Hey, I think it's a good idea. It encourages forum owners to appoint moderators based on how well they can establish, and maintain order in their forums, and not based on other reasons. Also, if a moderator dosent do his / her job, then the LEGAL reason, would be more then enough to replace him or her. It be easier for Nite to say "hey s0v, I got a lawsuit today from the state of Montana, becuase someone called someone else a doo-doo head in the area you're in charge of, so you're back to being Starfleet, bud." as opposed to "you're always drunk, you pick fights, you've banned more people then polio has killed, you're never around, and you usually cause more problems with the server, forum code, and everything else then you solve, so take a walk, and enjoy your demotion you jerk." So long as there ARE responcible moderators, that are active in the boards, and do their jobs by keeping an eye on posts by members, I'm all for it, really. However, on a more political note I personally find it absurd that people believe that they have the right not to be offended / insulted on the net. If someone is very clearly being a troll, or acting like an ass, then what can moderators / admins do? Will we get tagged for discrimination, for singeling a minority (i.e. the troll / idiots)? Would there be legal repercussions towards the forum staff, a possible supreme court hearing regarding possible violations of some American law? What if the forum owner is NOT a USA citizen? So many undefined variables regarding this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebellion Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Pure idiocy -.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 It be easier for Nite to say "hey s0v, I got a lawsuit today from the state of Montana, becuase someone called someone else a doo-doo head in the area you're in charge of, so you're back to being Starfleet, bud." as opposed to "you're always drunk, you pick fights, you've banned more people then polio has killed, you're never around, and you usually cause more problems with the server, forum code, and everything else then you solve, so take a walk, and enjoy your demotion you jerk." I guess it would be... but we'll never know, because Montana is not part of Germany! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabrood Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Again' date=' if I offended...sorry.[/quote'] No offence taken. The N-word is just very obtrusive these days, that's the point I wanted to make. I still like Britains and US citizens (not necessarily your president though ;) ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megalith Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Providing Internet forums is, they argued, a type of business operation. Operators therefore have to be able to hire enough staff with legal training to be able to handle such operations. "If the number of forums and comments in them is so great that the opposing party does not have the staff or technical means to review comments before they are published, they either have to expand their in-house resources or [...] reduce the scope of their business operations," the first-instance district court of Hamburg argued. Oh my i nearly wet myself! Just wonder how the hell Forum Owners are gonna pay these new brand of Lawyers! Even before the written statement on the ruling had been handed down, lawyers had been sending out fines to operators of forums they claimed were breaking the law. Such actions will probably now become common. Will whatta ya know huh too many Lawyers and not enough Defendents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katerina Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/72085 What is this? The middle ages? :( IT sure seems that way! Honestly Id rather be back in the Middle Ages provided i was royalty......I think it would be pretty neat being a Queen and calling all the shots. Then again.....brb i lost a filling the other day and in the old days didnt they just yank out your teeth? Also people must have had bad fucking teeth back then because floss wasnt invented yet! Visiting the local tooth puller must have been a life or death issue...*cringes* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motoxjesse Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Me thinks the "judge" (can't post what I was gonna call him) is an idiot. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...Germany huh? Didn't the Nazis start out by muzzling free speech? Same country - go figure... c4 B) Does every single Germany-related thread have to end up with someone acussing us of beeing some sort of post-nazis (whether it's ironic or not)? Cut the crap guys and discuss on an adult level for a change. hey im a square head too, but i agree thats kinda bad too generalized Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Again' date=' if I offended...sorry.[/quote'] No offence taken. The N-word is just very obtrusive these days, that's the point I wanted to make. I still like Britains and US citizens (not necessarily your president though ;) ). Hey...I didn't vote for George! Don't like him. Didn't like his father. Democrat all the way! c4 :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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