Chinese test missile obliterates satellite

[Centurion]

U.S. official: Chinese test missile obliterates satellite

 

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- China last week successfully used a missile to destroy an orbiting satellite, U.S. government officials told CNN on Thursday, in a test that could undermine relations with the West and pose a threat to satellites important to the U.S. military.

 

According to a spokesman for the National Security Council, the ground-based, medium-range ballistic missile knocked an old Chinese weather satellite from its orbit about 537 miles above Earth. The missile carried a "kill vehicle" and destroyed the satellite by ramming it.

 

The test took place on January 11. (Watch why the U.S. has protested the missile strike Video)

 

Aviation Week and Space Technology first reported the test: "Details emerging from space sources indicate that the Chinese Feng Yun 1C (FY-1C) polar orbit weather satellite launched in 1999 was attacked by an asat (anti-satellite) system launched from or near the Xichang Space Center."

 

A U.S. official, who would not agree to be identified, said the event was the first successful test of the missile after three failures.

 

The official said that U.S. "space tracking sensors" confirmed that the satellite is no longer in orbit and that the collision produced "hundreds of pieces of debris," that also are being tracked.

 

The United States logged a formal diplomatic protest.

 

"We are aware of it and we are concerned, and we made it known," said White House spokesman Tony Snow.

 

Several U.S. allies, including Canada and Australia, also have registered protests.

 

Under a space policy authorized by President Bush in August, the United States asserts a right to "freedom of action in space" and says it will "deter others from either impeding those rights or developing capabilities intended to do so."

 

The policy includes the right to "deny, if necessary, adversaries the use of space capabilities hostile to U.S. national interests."

 

Low Earth-orbit satellites have become indispensable for U.S. military communications, GPS navigation for smart bombs and troops, and for real-time surveillance. The Chinese test highlights the satellites' vulnerability.

 

"If we, for instance, got into a conflict over Taiwan, one of the first things they'd probably do would be to shoot down all of our lower Earth-orbit spy satellites, putting out our eyes," said John Pike of globalsecurity.org, a Web site that compiles information on worldwide security issues.

 

"The thing that is surprising and disturbing is that [the Chinese] have chosen this moment to demonstrate a military capability that can only be aimed at the United States," he said.

 

CNN

 

Look out for the Chinese! ;) Seriously though, if mankind stays the current course, we'll all be dead very soon... :(

 

 

[wahaha]

Missiles from China is the last thing the world has to worry about. It's their pollution, overpopulation, and lack of sanitation that will lead to the next bubonic plague.

 

When it rains, you need a dust buster and a shower. Utterly horrible environment.

[Tenebrae]

Yeah, I was just going to post this... but from, y'know a real news source.

 

It's really just a sign that the USA has been distracted by Iraq, or maybe that they managed to test their equivalent in secrecy.

 

And yes, wahaha is right - the greatest concern about India and China isn't military - it's environmental. Hell, if India and China nuked each other we'd probably be better off in the long run.

[TetsuoShima]

lack of sanitation

 

Indeed, I have personal experience with this part, so I can verify this. I occasionally help out a few Chinese exchange students (about 10 of them over the past 3 years, and nearly all of them had some serious issues with hygiene (in fact only 2 of them didn't).

 

The rest really needs no second person to verify, it's obvious. So yeah, there's more stuff coming from China then just satelite-oblitorators that could be unhealthy in the long run. In fact as far as military is concerned, I'd say this was a good development.

[bones2097]

i dont belive my ears  :o

 

heres an honest thread about weapons and within a post its turned into bashing the developing countries for hoping to have a better standard of living.....  >:(

 

WTF!!! <--- and this is the first time i've used this!!!!!

 

something wrong with you ppl, don't forget who the biggest pollutant of them all....

i'm not even gona mention kyoto!!!  ::)

 

bollocks!!! i ain't even gona re-vist this thread, i've had my say, let ppl view it & think for them selves, i've had my say!

 

do you know how racsist this thread look??

i won't even complain to a guv, the stupidity of some remarks are damaging enough!  :P

[Centurion]

Yeah, I was just going to post this... but from, y'know a real news source.

 

Indeed! BBC still is one of the best news sources around:

 

While the US may be unhappy about China's actions, the Washington administration has recently opposed international calls to end such tests.

 

It revised US space policy last October to state that Washington had the right to freedom of action in space, and the US is known to be researching such "satellite-killing" weapons itself.

 

I don't know why I still browse one-sided news websites such as CNN. Brainwash, possibly? I also agree with the previous posts regarding the overpopulation/environment problem that comes from China/India... But solve it with nukes? Hmm... :) Besides, as bones said, the US/Western countries are still responsible for most of the pollution that afflicts our little cesspool called Earth.

 

 

[wahaha]

I have experience with it too first hand. Most of them don't even have a shower in their homes(if you're lucky, your workplace has a shower). I got a 15 gallon installed for $25. And the water they drink has to be boiled or come from a bottle. Hence my name wahaha. It's the very first google link. I was sick for a MONTH just because I didn't know not to drink the water from the faucet when I first got there, except for some places in Beijing. Heaven only knows what the hell I ingested. And I only fully recovered when I left a year later(*smog contribution). The only thing I miss is the food.

 

The Chinese are pretty smart, but they should be concentrating more on helping their country rather than trying to destroy instruments that are spying on them and visiting the moon. The same could be said about the US and other countries. All it did was send the message that the US can send a puny pop can to a dusty rock. It hasn't improved our lives or culture one damn bit.

 

China is paranoid(maybe by n.korea), and they want to show their muscle. From all the people who wear tattered military clothing you'd think the whole country is ready for a fight. But they're actually poor and not a daddy warbucks, who trading with and kowtowing to is going to bring the US riches.

 

I agree also, how the hell can you make a statement about getting a better standard of living from developing weapons to kill your neighbors? Are you going to take over their land? Like I said. China needs to drop the hammer and sickle and start with the educating.

[TetsuoShima]

I understand wanting to come to the aid, but really... You're not quite correct bones2097...

 

A map of the world pollution made from satelite observation

 

 

 

Of course "the West" are no angels at all when it comes to pollution, but that is no excuse for other nations to do even worse... I suspect the picture explains my position (from Uni Heidelberg).

 

I definately believe wahaha is in the right here!

[wahaha]

I am preparing to make a post on another forum about this issue as well.

 

For shame on the US automakers for trying to flush our filthy gas guzzling vehicles into a country that is already drowing in their own muck. Someone here should be held accountable and have a class action lawsuit be brought before them. The people in charge at these companies disgust me.

 

And it's amazing that China implements a 1 child policy, but it's a free for all if you think you can afford a car. They've had thousands of years head start, and still haven't gotten anywhere.

 

Maybe if we got a real president in the white house, they can get the US and China to change their ways and stop genuflecting when they ask them to reduce their pollution and stop imprisoning people for their religion. Why don't we just give them our missle technology along with our cars for christ sake. Lets get it over and done with. They'll either destroy themselves or we'll destroy each other.

[Tenebrae]

To be honest, it's either stupid or hypocritical (take your pick) to want the wealth that only a free market economy can give you and then when all that unbridled capitalism finally results in - gasp! - something going wrong, pretending that it's the fault of the corporations. You can't expect most companies to act ethically any more than wild animals - if you're looking for people to blame, consumers and

 

And if I'm less than eager to have China and India enjoy Western standards of living, that's only because I'm thinking of the problems that will be caused. Obviously, it's not popular to tell less developed countries "you can't do what we did!" but what good is a car going to do someone in Shanghai when they're underwater, eh? Naturally, the West needs to take steps when it comes to carbon footprints and such but the population of Europe and North America is about half that of India and China.

[Centurion]

More news from BBC:

 

China test sparks space arms fears

By Rob Watson

BBC defence and security correspondent

 

It has been described by some arms control experts as the beginning of a new arms race in space, pitting China against the United States.

 

Last week, according to US officials, China managed to destroy one of its own ageing weather satellites using a medium-range ballistic missile.

 

The satellite was some 500 miles (800km) above the earth.

 

At the very least, it represents the first significant escalation in the space weapons race in 20 years.

 

Only the United States and the former Soviet Union have previously destroyed targets in space and that was back in the 1980s.

 

Although this time China used a relatively old-fashioned ballistic missile to target the satellite, it is also thought to be working on far more sophisticated laser technology to do the job.

 

US officials have been alarmed by the test itself and the failure of China to announce what it was doing either publicly or privately.

 

A White House spokesman said the "development and testing of such weapons is inconsistent with the spirit of co-operation that both countries aspire to in the civil space area".

 

He said both the US and other countries were concerned.

 

Arms build-up

 

Set alongside the recent dramatic increase in China's defence spending and the modernisation of its nuclear weapons and navy, to US officials the space test is one more worrying sign of Beijing's military ambitions.

 

The Pentagon recently warned in a report to Congress that China's military "is in the process of long-term transformation from a mass army designed for protracted wars of attrition on its territory to a more modern force capable of fighting short-duration, high-intensity conflicts against high-tech adversaries".

 

The report also noted that "China's military expansion is already such as to alter regional military balances. Long-term trends in China's strategic nuclear forces modernisation, land and sea-based access denial capabilities, and emerging precision-strike weapons have the potential to pose credible threats to modern militaries operating in the region".

 

And although tiny in comparison with US military budgets, Washington estimates China is spending $80bn (£40bn, 60bn euros) on defence, more than three times the official figure given by Beijing.

 

But why is the US so worried about anti-satellite weapons in particular?

 

Put simply the US military relies heavily on satellites to see and hear potential enemies and for its own communications.

 

So if China does indeed now have the ability to knock out targets in space, those capabilities are now under threat.

 

US research

 

But on the issue of space weapons, the US certainly risks the charge of hypocrisy.

 

The US has also been carrying out research on lasers that could knock out enemy satellites and the Bush administration has repeatedly ruled out the idea of a global treaty banning putting weapons in space.

 

Only last August, President Bush laid out a new US national space policy which said Washington would "preserve its rights, capabilities and freedom of action in space" and "dissuade or deter others from either impeding those rights or developing capabilities intended to do so".

 

It also threatened to "deny, if necessary, adversaries the use of space capabilities hostile to US national interests".

 

To some extent the announcement of that policy was clearly a response to a perceived threat from China as well as an attempt to preserve the current US advantage in space.

 

It may be that last week's test is an attempt by China to push back at the US and put pressure on Washington to consider negotiating a treaty to ban weapons in space.

 

BBC

 

Do as I say, not as I do? What happened to the lead by example stuff?

 

BTW, I really like the US, its people and its sci-fi series... So, no anti-US c##p intended by this post! OK? ;)

 

 

[Tenebrae]

Bottom-line: China is just posturing. When it comes down to it, the greatest area of contention is Taiwan and I think that if push came to shove, the US wouldn't want to risk a conflict with China about that.

[Megalith]

So china Destroyed one of its own aging satellites so what... surely this is a good thing many satellites fall from their supposed geocentric orbit and can potentially endanger populated areas with falling space debris.

What this does is allows nations to protect their citizens from them. Typically, of course, the US government looks on this as a threat to world security. just about any excuse to pick a fight on someone and made doubly hypocritical by the fact that the US is developing such devices themselves.

[subspatial]

i dont belive my ears  :o

....

WTF!!! <--- and this is the first time i've used this!!!!!

 

I gotta agree with bones on 'some' of these issues.

 

-2100: China invents Gunpowder

 

- 2000: China Launches Rocket Fire works 

 

1985: USA becomes first nation to destroy satellite in orbit.

 

1987/2000+: US, After public disasters in space exploration decides to halt/stall it's space explorations.

 

1990+: Space Race Ends

 

1990/2000+: Russia/China/EuroSpace assist US in launching Spy sattelites and continue space Exploration.

 

199?: USA refuses to sign Kyota accord.    (yeh Ok my dates are way off)

 

2000(odd): Deep Impact & Armegedon screen.

 

Current Reign(couple of years ago): USA reinstates accord to perceive any other countries weapons tests in space as a threat against US National Interests.

 

Fact 1: US Spy Sattelites are about 850km up.

      About the same distance the Chinese Missile reached it's target.

 

Fact 2: Ok.. I don't know where i'm going here... ???

      But This is a larger issue than Race & National Security.     

[TetsuoShima]

Let me comment on the Kyoto note:

 

This agreement is basically a good agreement as far as 'western' countries are concerned, however, as far as developming countries are concerned it is total nonsense, it no surprise all of them agreed since:

 

!The share of global emissions originating in developing countries will grow to meet their social and development needs!

 

In other words, China, India, and other developing countries were exempt from the requirements of the Kyoto Protocol because they were not the main contributors to the greenhouse gas emissions during the industrialization period that is believed to be causing today's climate change.

 

That is an incredibly foolish arrangement, it means they don't have to do any efforts at all regarding pollution. I agree that they 'mostly' are still minor contributors to pollution, but that is no excuse for not using more environment friendly ways to produce goods right from the start of their 'industialisation'. Given the current agreement, al this will result in is another 'wave' of polluting countries in the near future. More so, since all 'heavy' industries will be moving toward those developing countries, since they will be essentially non-restricted there (this process has allready begun btw), so in the end there will be NO global net reduction of pollution, just a shift. In another 10-15 years China will be the top polluting country in the world, in fact, if you take into account only the region where they are most 'developed' (and where most of them live), then they allready are the most polluting country in the world, if you don't them they're number 2, of course they also have the larges population in the world, but that's a dual edged sword, since people=pollution (more than just the beathing :D ), pollution should be limited by area, not by inhabitants. Keep in mind that I do feel that this is stil no excuse for the US to do nothing much about its own pollution.

 

As far as US space politics are concerned... Well, that doesn't need any comment I guess, that's extremely clear, that's why I said this missile test was a good thing. It'll be good for them to have some friendly/unfriendly competition (as long as they don't start nuking).

[Tenebrae]

I'd say the space race ended pretty much the second Neil Armstrong put his booties on the moon.

 

To be honest, China, India and the Middle East boasted rather consistently in the Ancient and Medieval period superior levels of advancement - both culturally and technologically. Of course, they all rested on their laurels and then Europeans came along and screwed them over. The End.

 

People are unhappy because China and India becoming global powers is a shake up to the old Cold War status quo. To quote Garth from Wayne's World "We fear change." Additionally, satellites are necessary for a great deal of things we take for granted in the West... people are bound to feel uneasy knowing that someone else has got the technology. Also - the Chinese really ought to tidy up that damned mess they made, it's only polite.

[Centurion]

Honest to God, I fail to see why the Chinese should have announced they were going to destroy their own satellite when other countries would hardly do the same in their place. Actually, the only reason we've come to know this missile test is because the West wants to embarrass the Chinese, and pose them as the next enemy of the "Free World". Besides, as Megalith said, there are other reasons to conduct similar tests other than killing US spy satellites, such as destroying old satellites which may endanger populated areas, intercepting asteroids, comets (yay, why not?).

 

I wonder how many of these tests conducted in the West go conveniently unreported... One thing we must give China and other developing countries credit for, they're always looking forward in terms of technology, instead of some developed countries which are spending billions and billions of dollars on unnecessary wars, or just resting on their laurels. Said that, of course China, India etc. must improve the quality of life of their citizens.

 

 

[Tenebrae]

The USA and USSR played around with this stuff in the 1980s... and subsequently agreed not to do it but yeah, as if the USA ever adhered to anything that had the UN's livery on it. I'd also say it was naive to think that China wasn't trying to make a statement with this weapon test. Using a kinetic impact to destroy a satellite is damned stupid for one thing - the debris is going to be extremely hazardous. Trying to use this technology to stop a comet and/or asteroid? I'm no cometologist but that seems pretty laughable - satellites and comets are very, very different ball games. Destroying a small object in a known orbit and a mass of ice of rock hurtling toward the Earth are different ball games.

 

I hardly think one can say that the West is resting on its laurels as regards scientific progress though... the fact of the matter is though that in about 10-15 years India and China will probably be churning out more scientists than the entire Western world... Apparently we're all hoping they'll bail us out of the trouble we're heading into.

[Centurion]

Trying to use this technology to stop a comet and/or asteroid? I'm no cometologist but that seems pretty laughable - satellites and comets are very, very different ball games. Destroying a small object in a known orbit and a mass of ice of rock hurtling toward the Earth are different ball games.

 

I agree, but it's a good start just in terms of ballistics. And, apparently, they used one of their old medium range missiles. With better technology and the correct payload, I think (hope?) this kind of stuff could take out or at least divert smaller asteroids/comets in the future. If the US had conducted the test, I know the CNNs and Foxes would have spun it that way... ;)

 

 

[Tenebrae]

Nah - to be honest, anything that was a serious threat would be unaffected by nukes. Additionally, many serious scientists have said that you'd compound the problem by detonating the asteroid in question.