TFMF Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 @TDE - i'd totally disagree with saying DS9 had a bad ending. Voyager - yes, bad, but not DS9. TNGs ending was excellent, no denying that. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetsuoShima Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 I'll have to agree, I think the DS9 ending wasn't that bad. Unfortunately they tried to end the series with something that 'really' ended it and in a way I at least wouldn't have expected. I can't say it was the best ending, but it also wasn't the worst. I would probably say that the last episode of ENT was the worst ending, but the episode before that one would have been an acceptable stopping point for the show. VOY ending is next on my list, upwards followed by DS9 and finally TNG, which indeed had a pretty terrific ending, one of the best for any scifi show imo. As for TOS, can't say the show really had an ending... They just kind of... stopped. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 Oh, that last ENT episode was really bad! As Tenebrae said, it was the final frak you from B&B. I also liked TNG and DS9 finales, btw. VOY not so much because of the Borg overdose. Actually, VOY was hijacked by the Borgs the minute 7 of 9 stepped on the ship. I liked Voyager a lot more before 7, and I think its conclusion, as someone said in another thread a while ago, should have involved the Caretaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjnave Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 As Tenebrae said, it was the final frak you from B&B. The end to ENT was pretty bad... however, i dont think Berman is a criminal... remember that a lot of good Trek came under his tutelage... as far as I'm concernced, and what ive discerned from reading articles, having watched a ton of Trek, and being a big Voyager fan, Braggah is the one to blame. Basically, once he took over Voyager (and i mean took over - Piller left, Taylor, and then RDM got the shaft), Trek started going down. TNG was great, DS9 was great, the first seasons of Voyager (esp. s2) were great (and i have to give credit to s5), but basically things changed... under the leading of Braggah, and what i perceive to be his ego, Trek followed the path of bigger boobs, more cameos, and less actually mind excercising Sci-fi. It all ended with Ent... In an interview with RDM, tlaking about his departure of Voyager, he manetioned that Behr had said to him (about his leaving the show with bad feelings) that he had experienced the typical "hollywood ending to a cinderella story". Basically, that's how i view it... big ego's, cut out the people who really love Trek because of your need to be the big boss, and the conclusion is foregone. If anyone is interested in reading RDM's comments I can find them and post them later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 I'll have to agree, I think the DS9 ending wasn't that bad. Unfortunately they tried to end the series with something that 'really' ended it and in a way I at least wouldn't have expected. I can't say it was the best ending, but it also wasn't the worst. I would probably say that the last episode of ENT was the worst ending, but the episode before that one would have been an acceptable stopping point for the show. VOY ending is next on my list, upwards followed by DS9 and finally TNG, which indeed had a pretty terrific ending, one of the best for any scifi show imo. As for TOS, can't say the show really had an ending... They just kind of... stopped. :D I am just puzzled why people thought that DS9 ended badly, Sisko always did have a strange relationship with the prophets and him becoming one did make sense seeing as his mother was one!, and they also had to draw a end to the dominon war, in ways that war was a huge part of DS9 and the whole of season 7 did build upto it which made it most interesting, but saying that I also did think from season 2 it was the best Star Trek!! deffo beat Voyager and Enterprise!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjnave Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 One thing that I’ve started to realize about Trek endings is that they are not written just thinking about the tv fans… but written with the mindset of continuing the franchise. Remember that Trek is more than tv… its conventions, cameos, movies, souvenirs, and the most relevant to what I’m going to say: the novels. Each series of Trek is continued by a “relaunch” series of books which picks up from where the TV show ended. I’ve been reading the DS9 relaunch and it flows naturally from where season 7 ended. It also spins off into dozens of other series of books that they sell. My point is that if anything, Star Trek is about making a butt-load of money. So, the TV shows aren’t the end all, but just another part of the bigger money making story-line. It sucks that ENT ended the way it did (which in my opinion was just trying to salvage what they could from a sinking ship), but as for Voyager and DS9, they were endings with a further scope of story expansion in mind. On a sidenote: I’ve noticed that with Voyagers ending, that if I watch it as a stand-alone episode (“hey…lets watch ‘Endgame’ tonight”) that I like it as an ending… but if I watch it at the end of having watched the whole series it leaves me flat. Hmmm…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiggy Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 I wouldnt go as far as saying that there actually was an ending to Voyager. There should of been one more episode. To make the ending correctly as the introduction to a new Star Trek feature film would be an excellent idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjnave Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 I wouldnt go as far as saying that there actually was an ending to Voyager. There should of been one more episode. To make the ending correctly as the introduction to a new Star Trek feature film would be an excellent idea. The first novels called "Homecoming" deal with the issues they didnt deal with with the show (i.e. 7 of 9, the Maquis, etc...). I think that if you had any other episodes it just would have needed another season... there were too many implications involved with returning to handle in one or two episodes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 I really would love to see the return of DS9!! at least it had action and humor mixed in, if you doubt me just watch pale moonlight and tell me that was not good!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vystral Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 ... an unsatisfactory ending to screw over the fans... a lot like Enterprise! I didn't like the ending either, but they did a good job on such short notice. I blame UPN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 A good job? Clearly we have a very different ideas of what constitutes "good"... did they have short notice? I was rather under the impression that the sword of damacles had been suspended over the show pretty much from the get go - so the bitter end can't have been a surprise, can it? There had to be a hundred better ways to conclude the show than a holodeck angle with Riker looking like he'd been drinking paint thinner. Perhaps the most damning indigment of the episode comes not from my lips - but from the cast itself. It seems as if few of them had anything good to say and Braga even went so far as to say the subpar performances could have been the result of them being so monumentally irritated at the way the show was ending. Can't say I blame them. It would have been somewhat like having let Star Trek VI: Final Frontier be the swan song for TOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjnave Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 The problem wasnt with the Riker holodeck thing... which i think was cool how it tied everything back to TNG (after all, most Trek fans like to see these kind of connections), but the problem is how you stated, "the sub-par acting". Also, it was just plain stupid that Trip died the way he did. It was like he was racing to die. Also, the way he died didnt make sense according to everything he had already lived through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 Yeah, it was clear that the writer - and they pretty much said it - was looking for a way to build tension (they say HE'S A GONNA DIE! well in advance) and make the episode DRAMATIC. Some engineer if the best plan he could come up with was to die. Maybe if they'd given him some kind of motivation... "Sorry Trip, 11 years of Vulcan cock block has given you a mere 3 weeks to live" then it would have been ok... but yes, it felt so arbitrary and yes, I know that not everyone needs to have some deep and meaningful heroic death that given the fact everyone had lived through 4 years where they should have died about a dozen times... well, yes - it was stupid. Although, that said - Tasha Yar and Jadzia Dax both had fairly pointless deaths... wrong place, wrong time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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