c0g Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Let's talk about Gay from a scientific perspective. Yes, lets please do, and some logic to. And some humor… If I build a building, it needs to have a strong foundation and be built according to science so that it is strong and stable. In general, the building should be straight up and down. A dome is the strongest building you can make, and it is curvy and queer, just like my wife. ;) Gaudy filled Barcelona with twisting organic curved buildings that are some of the most beautiful and well-designed Buildings in the world. None of them are strait. And neither was Gaudy... If the building is leaning to one side or the other, the building is wrong or damaged or hurt or broken or some negative word. Not because people are judgementally saying the building is bad. Because the building is not safe and does not meet the scientific design principles. Leaning is bad design? Do you mean like the great pyramids that have stood the tests of time for millennia? But People are not buildings. Slightly leaning fir trees can grow to over 420 feet tall, and live a thousand years. Seems like a good design to me. People are designed to be straight. They are designed to be bilaterally symmetrical. No they are not. More than half of your vital organs are asymmetrical, and asymmetrically placed. On any human, one foot is bigger, one eye is stronger, and one arm is longer, etc… Therefore, if I say a gay person is physically sick or mentally sick, I am not a mean person making a judgement. I am a scientist pointing out that the structure under observation, a particular human body, is no longer behaving according to scientific design principles. You call that science? Homosexual behavior has been observed in hundreds if not thousands of animal species. This is still true even after millions of years of evolution. Relatively large percentages of these populations exhibit this behavior. So when we apply Ockham’s razor, we come to the conclusion that Homosexuality is a beneficial design principle, or it would have been bread out of these populations selectively over generations. It is bent or twisted or curved.....anything but straight as the design says it should be. Flawed designs are not passed on in evolution. Homosexuality is not a trait directly inherited from the individuals displaying it, as they rarely pass it on. This trait is passed on through the main body of the species, and therefore must be of benefit to that main body, or it would not be consistently demonstrated by every generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted April 7, 2005 Author Share Posted April 7, 2005 People are designed to be straight. They are designed to be bilaterally symmetrical. No they are not. More than half of your vital organs are asymmetrical, and asymmetrically placed. On any human, one foot is bigger, one eye is stronger, and one arm is longer, etc… The liver is not bilaterally symmetrical, nor is it centered in the body. Neither is the heart. If memory serves me, there are an odd number of lobes on the lungs! Even brain function is asymmetric (right-left brain specialization). And, as c0g stated, even some of those organs which appear to be symmetric have more power or strength on one side than the other. Most of us have a dominant hand - and one could argue that that creates a certain asymmetry. But those of us who need corrective lenses rarely have the same correction for each eye - something that should have nothing to do with "handedness." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 To be honest who cares what sexual orintation someone is on here , I dont care myself. End of the day this is a Sci - Fi site. Same applies to religion etc etc and does not seem relevent really. As for the fourm, I think its run well, mild censorship is needed for abusive langauge but other than that I think it should be left as it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorisP Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 People are designed to be straight. They are designed to be bilaterally symmetrical. No they are not. More than half of your vital organs are asymmetrical, and asymmetrically placed. On any human, one foot is bigger, one eye is stronger, and one arm is longer, etc… Most of us have a dominant hand - and one could argue that that creates a certain asymmetry. But those of us who need corrective lenses rarely have the same correction for each eye - something that should have nothing to do with "handedness." You are comparing apples and oranges. Organ symmettry is not what is important here. Yes the liver is not symettrical but neither is a rock you pick up off the ground. Neither one of those examples applies to the point being made here. The body as a whole when viewed from the outside should be balanced and equal on both sides. The important part in what you said? On any human, one foot is bigger, one eye is stronger, and one arm is longer, etc… Why? Why should this be true? There are various reasons for this to be true. My claim is that homosexuality is one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorisP Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 Let's talk about Gay from a scientific perspective. A dome is the strongest building you can make, and it is curvy and queer, just like my wife. ;) Leaning is bad design? Do you mean like the great pyramids that have stood the tests of time for millennia? But People are not buildings. Homosexuality is a beneficial design principle, or it would have been bread out of these populations selectively over generations. It is bent or twisted or curved.....anything but straight as the design says it should be. Flawed designs are not passed on in evolution. Homosexuality is not a trait directly inherited from the individuals displaying it, as they rarely pass it on. This trait is passed on through the main body of the species, and therefore must be of benefit to that main body, or it would not be consistently demonstrated by every generation. If you build a dome building, for best stability, the dome should be level and flat on the ground. Yes the dome is curved but everything inside of the dome is vertical, not slanted off of vertical. I don't understand the part about the pyramids. You mean the faces of the pyramids lean into each other? That is what makes a pyramid strong is the faces leaning into each other. I think you know exactly what I mean but you are playing games. The floor of the pyramid is flat. If you take a perpendicular line to the floor, it will be vertical. The sides of they pyramid being inclined have nothing to do with the perpendicular line to the floor. Dood. For a science fiction guy you are playing real lose with the logic here. Because homosexuality is observed in nature it is a good design? That is not logic at all. Yes homosexual behavior is observed in nature. What if I told you that homosexual behavior can be caused by a subconscious desire to correct an imbalance within the body? The body is broken and in order to try and repair itself, it engages in homosexual behavior? Your last line makes no sense. Homosexuality is not passed on because it is a good design. It is found thruout human history because the behavior can be meant to repair human bodies broken in a specific way. Human bodies have been the same thru history so the same repair activity, homosexuality, would be around thru history. What you are doing is taking some evidence and reaching a conclusion. That is what science is. It is my opinion that you have reached the wrong conclusion. I think my conclusions are right. Mine are based more on verifiable ideas than yours are. You need to prove homosexuality is beneficial to people to prove your claims. I don't think you can do that. I need to prove homosexuality will make people sick and unhealthy. I can do that. That means my conlusions are more likely to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phelpsaa Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 I think that elderbear did act emotionally to the post but he did have a valid point. Deleting right off the bat may have not been the best answer but I am impressed by the fact that he is willing to admit that he may have been wrong to censor. I disagree with narrow, closed minded thought as well. But that is when we smile and nod at the person making the uniformed comment and go on. We often are not able to inspire closed minds but at times we can encourage those who wish to socialize with us to open theirs a little. That does not mean change their minds though. I HOPE that an important lesson in tact and understanding has been learned here. Thist is the spirit of Star Trek. Exploring our differences with open minds and hearts so that we may learn from eachother. Controlled conflict helps us grow and exercise our minds. I hope that debate does not end in this forum. I have enjoyed my short time here and find many intelligent people here. Continue to reach for greater things all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synexo Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 To be honest who cares what sexual orintation someone is on here ' date=' I dont care myself. End of the day this is a Sci - Fi site. [/quote'] I think that seeing as this is a Sci-Fi site, we should all swear off our old ways, and from here on it dedicate ourselves to having sex with only sexually androgynous yet sleek and sexy androids and space aliens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c0g Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 If you build a dome building' date=' for best stability, the dome should be level and flat on the ground. Yes the dome is curved but everything inside of the dome is vertical, not slanted off of vertical. [/quote'] I have built several domes on my farm and elsewhere, both Isometric and Geodesic. But I was Wrong. A complete Sphere is actually the strongest structure. Not a Strait line to be seen anywhere. Not that whether or not a building sits on flat ground has anything to do with whether or not homosexuality is an illness. Your last line makes no sense. Homosexuality is not passed on because it is a good design. It is found thruout human history because the behavior can be meant to repair human bodies broken in a specific way. Human bodies have been the same thru history so the same repair activity, homosexuality, would be around thru history. You are talking about people. My only claim is that homosexuality can be observed in most species, from birds to mammals to reptiles. And I am looking at a much larger time frame than just recent human history. Evolution has had millions of years to cull this behavior, yet it has not. That leads me to the conclusion that this behavior benefits each of the species that practice it. I think my conclusions are right. Mine are based more on verifiable ideas than yours are. Like symmetry? What is verifiable about asymmetricalality being a symptom of homosexual sickness? You are making this stuff up as you go along to try to justify some silly ideas. Pull the other one, it’s got bells on. You need to prove homosexuality is beneficial to people to prove your claims. I don't think you can do that. I can prove that stress is unhealthy. http://www.brainconnection.com/topics/?main=fa/zebras I can prove that coming home to a loving partner can relive that stress, and that finding the person who is right for you extends your life. http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2005/3/prweb215426.htm I need to prove homosexuality will make people sick and unhealthy. I can do that. That means my conlusions are more likely to be true. If you can actually do that, why do you prattle on about buildings and symmetry? The last time I heard anybody in the medical profession claim that symmetry played a part in health or sexuality, they were applying leaches while they said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted April 8, 2005 Author Share Posted April 8, 2005 People are designed to be straight. They are designed to be bilaterally symmetrical. No they are not. More than half of your vital organs are asymmetrical, and asymmetrically placed. On any human, one foot is bigger, one eye is stronger, and one arm is longer, etc… Most of us have a dominant hand - and one could argue that that creates a certain asymmetry. But those of us who need corrective lenses rarely have the same correction for each eye - something that should have nothing to do with "handedness." You are comparing apples and oranges. Organ symmettry is not what is important here. Yes the liver is not symettrical but neither is a rock you pick up off the ground. Neither one of those examples applies to the point being made here. Well, you REALLY lost me, then. I'm not tracking you at all. The body as a whole when viewed from the outside should be balanced and equal on both sides. So, when I stand directly to your left, I'll see both the front part of your body and the back part of your body "balanced and equal?" OK ... that's not really fair, I think I know what you meant. But I just don't get the logic in what follows: The important part in what you said? On any human, one foot is bigger, one eye is stronger, and one arm is longer, etc… Why? Why should this be true? There are various reasons for this to be true. My claim is that homosexuality is one of them. OK, you can claim it. I can claim to be the legitimate heir of Howard Hughes. Any court in the land would toss me out on my ear without substantiation! How in the name of the Goddess's Fertile Belly can you subtantiate that homosexuality is a cause of r/l-bilateral asymetry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorisP Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 I was gonna forget about it until you said I was making things up. Never tell a scientist he is making things up. Let's take that bogus stress and stress relief example. Stress is bad for people. OK. I can find people who say taking drugs is good for stress. But if you ask most people, they will say drugs are bad for you. Maybe a person does get their stress relieved thru homosexual sex. That DOES NOT mean it is good for them. Some people get relief from stress by throwing up and becoming anorexic or other crazy stuff. The relief of stress by a particular object or action does not prove that action is beneficial to a person overall. You need to prove that homosexuality is beneficial to people which you cannot do. Your frustration led you to say this. "If you can actually do that, why do you prattle on about buildings and symmetry". First off this tells me your are homosexual or thinking about it. You don't need to say prattle on. You are frustrated because you know you cannot prove that homosexuality is beneficial. You are frustrated because of my certainty that I can prove homosexuality can be unhealthy for people. You are frustrated because the facts do not agree with your desire or need to beleive that homosexuality can cause no ill effects in a person. What does the medical profession using leeches have to do with what I said? Other than to imply I am talking about some old, outdated knowledge? You haven't even talked to me enough to know what my claims are. How can you honestly and thoughtfully deride them without ever hearing what I have to say? If you have some reasonable question, or want to listen and think about what I have to say, let me know. If you continue to say things that are nothing more than your personal feelings..... this is science, not a self help group. You are in the wrong building. You want to go over to the Psychology building. They will teach you how to ignore people that say things you do not like. This is the engineering, mathematics, health department where we deal with observable, repeatable facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorisP Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 How in the name of the Goddess's Fertile Belly can you subtantiate that homosexuality is a cause of r/l-bilateral asymetry? Hooray! A ray of intelligence! There ARE science minded people who can think and forumulate an insightful question. Yippee! I was going to make a seperate post about this but now I can put it here. First off though. Above you said looking at front and back halfs of people, they are not the same. I am talking about right and left halves of people. That seems so obvious I did not spell it out. The right half of a person is supposed to be equal to a left half of a person. Why is that so hard to accept? People need to understand there are lots of factors going on with this subject. In my opinion, there are people in this world who purposefully keep other people down, keep them stupid, keep them weak. They do this by either telling them lies, telling them half truths, or completely omitting commonly available information from their education. With the education they have, the conclusions reached by people are true and sound reasonable. But to a person who has all the information, not just part of it, the conclusions are obviously false. I think the people here have had information withheld from them. The western world has had contact with Asia and the east for hundreds of years. That means that all Asian ideas and thoughts have been available for examination and study by western scientists since that time. Asian belief supports what I say. The reason I think you guys believe I must be wrong is that no one has ever told you about Asian beliefs. They never taught you about China or India or Japan other than to say they are way over there in the east somewhere. In Chinese medicine as well as Indian medicine, it is a common belief that excessive sexual activity damages people. You won't hear that in the West. In fact, what do you hear in the west? "Have sex as much as you can. Take Viagra, have more sex". This supports my claim that the leaders purposefully keep knowledge from people in order to keep them weak. These leaders are informed by Western scientists that the Asians say excessive sex is bad for people and makes them weak and stupid. The leader likes that idea, he wants weak and stupid people who cannot contest with him or his people for power. So what does he do? This leader starts a campaign to encourage people to have lots of sex all the time. Something his scientists say the Asians guarantee will make people stupid and lazy and weak. My theory is based sort of on these asian ideas. This post got really big so I will stop and give people time to assimilate the information and ask questions. I am making a video to demonstrate how this works. If I can make it, it will show you exactly why I believe homosexuality can make a person lopsided. Don't forget that other actions can cause the same effects also. Don't forget that some homosexual people may not be affected as described. Just like everything else in science, there are always a few exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synexo Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 Hooray! A ray of intelligence! There ARE science minded people who can think and forumulate an insightful question. BorisP, even though I'm actually aware of some of the eastern ideas of conserving sexual energy, and that they hold beliefs such as excessive orgasm can lead to poor health and low energy, I for one think the way in which you framed your last post is meant to be taken as an absurd joke. A pretty clever one at that, as you managed to sarcastically compliment elderbear while yourself juxtaposing superstitious beliefs and science as if they were one and the same. You even managed to fit in a conspiracy theory! Personally I thought it was quite clear that your original post concerning bilateral symmetry and sexual preference was metaphorical in nature, and not meant to be taken literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralLee Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 If you look at the root of Ten Forward, Nite posted this as a description; "Get to know your fellow Trekkies". To me, that means this is the area to talk about anything you want, on site topic or off site topic, in an attempt to get to know each other better. Sure, this is a Sci-Fi based forum and tracker "site," but any good forum, bbs service, or similar, always has an area where "off topic" things can be discussed. To me, that was probably the reason Ten Forward was added in the first place. Imagine if you were a crew member on Enterprise, during The Next Generation years, and you just finished a hard days work, and went to Ten Forward, to unwind and relax, shoot the breeze, get some food and drink, you know, socialize... Wouldn't you prefer to talk about non-work related issues with others at that time? That's how I look at this area anyhow, non-sci-fi related. Anyhow, needless to say, I disagree with the folks whom feel that topics such as "gay or straight?", religious themes, etc., etc., should not be discussed on this forum. Afterall, they are just another means of getting to know your fellow Trekkies. Now, maybe it's time we start a thread about Quantum Physics, and how this may tie into what has been discussed so much, here and there lately.... hmmmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralLee Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 I find it interesting watching others try to undo each other intellectually in threads like this one... Asian belief supports what I say. The reason I think you guys believe I must be wrong is that no one has ever told you about Asian beliefs. They never taught you about China or India or Japan other than to say they are way over there in the east somewhere. I myself, have lived in Japan for a few years, have studied eastern thought since about 1974 or so, been to Hong Kong several times, Singapore, the Phillipines, Thailand, and several other Asian areas. I have studied and practicied certain forms of Yoga over the years, analyzied Buddhism best I could, studied Sufism, etc., etc., as I'm sure a few others here have as well. Heck, I still perform, Tai Chi now and then... I find Taoism incredibly profound, and it seems to be very similar to what Christ taught. Anyhow, maybe that's best for that religious thread, dunno. In Chinese medicine as well as Indian medicine, it is a common belief that excessive sexual activity damages people. You won't hear that in the West. In fact, what do you hear in the west? "Have sex as much as you can. Take Viagra, have more sex". Long live Tantra and Kundalini As far as damages people, well, sexual energy, especially for males since semen is usually released, can indeed at times slow ones path towards "enlightentment" by dissapating energy, if one is on that path. I'm sure you are aware that's why many serious seekers often times go celibate for a while, while they are "seeking". I'm not sure if I'd call that damaging tho. It's simply a lowering of what in India/Yoga, is called Prana, or life force, same as Ki. This dissapation, can slow the progress or nip in the bud the actions of Kundalini, which lies dormant in us all (according to Hindi thought). Again, I don't think I'd call that damaging tho, perhaps "retardation of progress of." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weyoun Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 If you look at the root of Ten Forward, Nite posted this as a description; "Get to know your fellow Trekkies". To me, that means this is the area to talk about anything you want, on site topic or off site topic, in an attempt to get to know each other better. Sure, this is a Sci-Fi based forum and tracker "site," but any good forum, bbs service, or similar, always has an area where "off topic" things can be discussed. To me, that was probably the reason Ten Forward was added in the first place. Imagine if you were a crew member on Enterprise, during The Next Generation years, and you just finished a hard days work, and went to Ten Forward, to unwind and relax, shoot the breeze, get some food and drink, you know, socialize... Wouldn't you prefer to talk about non-work related issues with others at that time? That's how I look at this area anyhow, non-sci-fi related. Anyhow, needless to say, I disagree with the folks whom feel that topics such as "gay or straight?", religious themes, etc., etc., should not be discussed on this forum. Afterall, they are just another means of getting to know your fellow Trekkies. Now, maybe it's time we start a thread about Quantum Physics, and how this may tie into what has been discussed so much, here and there lately.... hmmmmmmm GeneralLee, thank you. I am one of those people that considered this to be in whole off topic. I thought it should probably be locked. What you said has turned me around on this. Now, for my opinion. Dun dun dun! First of all, I would like to say that I am not gay, but I do have gay friends and have no problem with it. I think this argument basically has to do with how people think about sex. There are those who think that sex is a fun thing, maybe signifying a commitment, but it is not a term confined to such a strict definition as the second group (and yes, there are people in between, I understand), but the second group considers sex to be something between a man and a woman, with the end result being a child. the people fitting in that group seem to be those with the problem, for the most part. I do understand both sides, though I tend to lean more toward the left/first side I listed. If you are on the other side, know this: This is not strictly human behaviour (gays). It is found all over in nature. That has been discussed here, I think. But if nothing else, take some comfort in this. We have an overpopulated world, and gay relationships may help keep that in check. On average, about 10 percent of the population is homosexual, and if they weren't, the population could be a fair amount higher than it already is. Anyway, just my opinion. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c0g Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 The relief of stress by a particular object or action does not prove that action is beneficial to a person overall. Neither does it prove it to be harmful. You need to prove that homosexuality is beneficial to people which you cannot do. Your frustration led you to say this. Why do I need to demonstrate a null hypothesis to discredit your hypothesis? I cannot prove anything to YOU personally, because you do not have an open mind. Therefore I am not trying to. It is not my intent at all to change your beliefs, but merely to get you to display your own lack of credibility. First off this tells me your are homosexual or thinking about it. You are frustrated because you know you cannot prove that homosexuality is beneficial. I don’t need to prove that homosexuality is beneficial to win this argument; I only need to prove that you can’t prove that it is harmful. So why would I be frustrated? You are doing a fantastic job of discrediting yourself by your total failure to demonstrate even a singe scientific fact in defense of your absurd assertions. You are in the wrong building. You want to go over to the Psychology building. What is with you and buildings? Do you have some Freudian hang-up about things that stick up and protrude like a big erection? This is the engineering, mathematics, health department where we deal with observable, repeatable facts. You talk a lot about science, yet you demonstrate NOTHING scientific. Please, give me just one scientific observable, repeatable fact that demonstrates that homosexual behavior will make one foot bigger than the other. In Chinese medicine as well as Indian medicine, it is a common belief that excessive sexual activity damages people. You won't hear that in the West. Yes you do, the rightwing fundamentalist Christians say it all the time. They are just as backward as their fellow eastern prudes. Science knows no hemisphere, and unfortunately neither does intolerance. You can’t “prove†anything simply by claiming it is “Eastern†Point in case: Vatsayana, devoted an entire chapter of the Kamasutra to Auparistaka (homosexual intercourse) He claimed that homosexual practice is allowed by Dharmasutras (holy law) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralLee Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 GeneralLee, thank you. I am one of those people that considered this to be in whole off topic. I thought it should probably be locked. What you said has turned me around on this. Wow, that is too cool, you are MOST welcome. I have felt that way for some time now, but that was the first time I ever expressed myself in type like that here about it. On average, about 10 percent of the population is homosexual, and if they weren't, the population could be a fair amount higher than it already is. Anyway, just my opinion. ;) LOL! I never looked at it that way before. My youngest brother is gay, some of the best people I've ever met in my life are gay. Thankfully, that has never bothered me at all. You gotta admit tho, that in Elderbears avatar, he looks kinda cute tho.... ... hi there big guy.... hehehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralLee Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 What is with you and buildings? Do you have some Freudian hang-up about things that stick up and protrude like a big erection? LMFAO I think you all made great points, hopefully, it won't get much more heated. Then again, maybe that's for the best! lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorisP Posted April 9, 2005 Share Posted April 9, 2005 Cog. Why are you bringing that political mealy mouth junk into a science discussion? Pretend this is science class, not FOX news. First you tell people I make things up. You tell a blatant lie about me in front of strangers. What kind of person does that instead of sticking to the science under discussion? Now you tell people I am not open minded. Another judgemental statement from someone with whom I have exchanged 3 or 4 posts in 1 thread. You don't know me. You haven't spoken to me. You have no basis on which to say I do not have an open mind. I wrote a bunch of other stuff and erased it. No point. The person isn't listening. Let's try a different approach. ----- Cog. What do you know about the concept of a human being having a female and a male half? Feel free to write anything you think important. I want personal knowledge in your possession right now. I am not saying post a bunch of quotes from internet sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorisP Posted April 9, 2005 Share Posted April 9, 2005 I do understand both sides, though I tend to lean more toward the left/first side I listed. If you are on the other side, know this: This is not strictly human behaviour (gays). It is found all over in nature. That has been discussed here, I think. But if nothing else, take some comfort in this. We have an overpopulated world, and gay relationships may help keep that in check. On average, about 10 percent of the population is homosexual, and if they weren't, the population could be a fair amount higher than it already is. Anyway, just my opinion. ;) Hello. After reading your post, most of it hinges on an assumption that is not true. You assume that I am a christian or some other fundamentalist. That is not true. My thoughts are based on physical observations of the people around me. That pretty much means we have to throw away everything you said. People are so easily led it make me ill. You are talking about that "homosexuality is in nature" stuff just like they said on TV. Anyone can get on TV. Look at Ashlee Simpson. She is a lip sync singer who is sold to the public as a singer. She got caught on SNL lip syncing a song. But she is still goes around playing "live" concerts. People on TV are liars who will lie about anything. You must learn to think on your own. You must realize that people who do not have your best interests at heart will tell you what you want to hear or what best serves their interests. I could care less for population explosion. I don't need to be comforted so I accept some idea. There is one point and one point only here. Homosexuality is associated with ill health in people. Period. Factual statement. This is not about my political, religious or personal beliefs. That is a factual statement and if people would stick to the facts instead of bringing up all this personal stuff, we would go a lot farther a lot faster. What do they teach people in science class these days? Do they still make you take science class? The ones where they teach you about experiments and testing your hypothesis and that kind of stuff? You get mystery chemicals and you do tests to see what kind of chemical you were given? Do they still do that in school? If they don't maybe that is the problem. I am unhappy no one is talking scientifically but if you were never trained to think scientifically, it is not your fault. I know the schools keep making people stupider so they are easier to control but.....who is going to be left to run society if they make everyone stupid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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