Dr. Who Time War

[TV Man]

There are other time travellers at the moment' date=' but there don't seem to be any more Time Lords. The Doctor of course may just be mentally blind to them.[/quote']

 

A couple of other possibilities would be that this Doctor isn't really a Time Lord, or that he is a Time Lord but he isn't The Doctor. How do we know for certain the Eccelston character is the regeneration of the McGann Doctor? We never saw him regenerate, correct? His first appearance in the new series is that he appears in the store stockroom to pull Rose out of the way of the Autons. For all we know, the Eccelston Doctor could be the Master or some other fake.

[Fenriswolf]

tvman, oddly enough I have been kind of (in a strange way) hoping that the new Dr. is a fake and it's the Master in disguise. I miss that character the most, along with the Rani :(

[Dprogo]

I think that the Time War was huge, global (edit: galactic would be a better word choice here) in scale even. I think that the Daleks started it. Evidences: The Doctor in episode six talks about the Daleks' great desire to exterminate any other forms of life. I think the Daleks probably went on a huge extermination spree, and the Time Lords intervened. At least two other speices were affected, the living plastic Nestene Conciousness from Ep. 1, and the gaseous beings in Ep. 3. The Doctor 'couldn't stop' their planets' destructions (ep. 1) at the hands of the Daleks. And perhaps he struck out at the Daleks either to stop the destruction of others, or because they had already more-or-less destroyed the Time Lords.

 

Also, I kind of have the impression that time for the good Doctor isn't quite as we see it. For us, we see it as linear. He comments on this in episode 3 when Rose asks if she can die before she's born. But I'm not sure if it's even THAT simple for Time Lords. I've been speculating as to whether if when a Time Lord dies, his effects on the universe remain, but his presence disappears, meaning even if you travelled back in time to find one when you KNEW they were there, they wouldn't be there. More of a supreme death for such great beings. With great power comes great consequences?

 

I dunno, maybe I've just managed to babble on a tad. Tell me what your thoughts are on any of my suppositions. :-)

[Fenriswolf]

Welcome to the forums Dprogo. You have some interesting ideas, the bottom line is none of us know so we don't discount anyone's thoughts/suppositions unless they're way way off.

 

Like say, the Doctor is really a time travelling blue dinosaur called: Barney.

 

You have some great ideas there and hopefully we'll see you more active!

[TV Man]

tvman' date=' oddly enough I have been kind of (in a strange way) hoping that the new Dr. is a fake and it's the Master in disguise. I miss that character the most, along with the Rani :([/quote']

 

Me too. I doubt it, but I wanted to point out the possible paths the story could take.

 

Someone on the list commented that this Doctor seems to require a lot of help in defeating whatever nemesis he faces which didn't seem to be a characteristic of earlier incarnations of the Doctor. I suppose at some level that is true and could possibly be indicative that this isn't the real Doctor. OTOH, this Doctor did seem to have the usual reaction to the Dalek, so it remains to be seen what is really the truth.

 

And since we're getting a new Doctor next season, will there be a regeneration scence in the next season? B)

[Fenriswolf]

SPOILER!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We don't know if there will be one or not. There are some rumours that he will turn up and Rose won't know him, that he's lost at the end of this current season and Rose has to helm the TARDIS to find him.

 

But we shall see I suppose.

[TV Man]

I think that the Time War was huge, global (edit: galactic would be a better word choice here) in scale even. I think that the Daleks started it. Evidences: The Doctor in episode six talks about the Daleks' great desire to exterminate any other forms of life. I think the Daleks probably went on a huge extermination spree, and the Time Lords intervened. At least two other speices were affected, the living plastic Nestene Conciousness from Ep. 1, and the gaseous beings in Ep. 3. The Doctor 'couldn't stop' their planets' destructions (ep. 1) at the hands of the Daleks. And perhaps he struck out at the Daleks either to stop the destruction of others, or because they had already more-or-less destroyed the Time Lords.

 

Also, I kind of have the impression that time for the good Doctor isn't quite as we see it. For us, we see it as linear. He comments on this in episode 3 when Rose asks if she can die before she's born. But I'm not sure if it's even THAT simple for Time Lords. I've been speculating as to whether if when a Time Lord dies, his effects on the universe remain, but his presence disappears, meaning even if you travelled back in time to find one when you KNEW they were there, they wouldn't be there. More of a supreme death for such great beings. With great power comes great consequences?

 

I dunno, maybe I've just managed to babble on a tad. Tell me what your thoughts are on any of my suppositions. :-)

 

I agree with you about the Daleks. And that would be consistent with their behavior since their first appearance in the series. After all, their motto is Exterminate!, so it may not matter to them if they win by destroying everything including themselves.

 

As for the Doctor, there are a lot of questions. What happened to the rouge Time Lords like the Master? Who are the "Time Agents" mentioned by Harkness in this past episode? Are they somehow related to the Time Lords or were they in league with the Daleks or are they some separate time travel power that we've not seen yet? What about the White and Black Guardians? Is this Doctor really the Doctor, or is he really a "Time Agent" as mentioned by Harkness?

 

Anyway, this is the kind of stuff that makes a series fun. You really don't know where it's going until you get there. B)

[Fenriswolf]

For me it's the journey, so yep...definitely...lots of fun!

[TV Man]

SPOILER!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We don't know if there will be one or not. There are some rumours that he will turn up and Rose won't know him, that he's lost at the end of this current season and Rose has to helm the TARDIS to find him.

 

But we shall see I suppose.

 

That sounds plausible.

 

So here's another imponderable about this series. I think it was in the first episode that the character Clive had done a lot of research tracking this Doctor through history. However, Clives research did not show any of the previous incarnations of the Doctor. That could be because the writers don't care about the fact that the series has a history that spans forty years. But this is such a well written series, and it doesn't strike me as a "reimagined" Doctor, so Clives research could also have some meaning in the story arc of the season.

 

So why would Clive not have stumbled into any previous incarnations? Did the Time War wipe out the prior versions? If so, then how would this Doctor have regenerated?

 

Or is this Doctor a fake?

[Antilles]

I dont think RTD would allow anyone to write for the series if they didnt care it had a 42 year history. The Clive storyline and his researching the Doctor thru history is probably due to him just looking for this one man, he had no idea he could regenerate into another body, so theres a good chance he did find info on 'other Doctors' but simply thought nothing of it if that info showed the face of previous incarnations.

 

Just a thought! Even Mickey & Rose dont know he can change yet! Rose knows hes 900 years old but hasnt a clue that its been in different bodies hehe!

[Dprogo]

Agreed. He mentionned finding lots of mentions in political journals. He probably just didn't know to look for other faces. It seems he may have found some of his sources simply on the basis of look.

[Fenriswolf]

It could be a case of the writers not looking at the continuity of the old series to new. But we know from what RTD has said, yes, Eccleston is the same guy that fought the Eric Roberts Master and was previously Sylvester McCoy.

 

It could simply be a plot device of cool for the new series, something the writers can draw on to give us the glimpses of the next episode. Remember that before the Unquiet Dead episode the Dr. and Rose were shown on the whoisdrwho website prior to this, as a kind of teaser/taster.

 

I think it's one of those grey areas that really causes headaches, you can probably explain it as an effect of the Time War, since you can't really explain it as a Regeneration effect.

 

Or it's a plot hole they forgot to fill and leaves things way open for this kind of discussion.

 

My ideas involve something to do with the Eye of Harmony, but I am still working on something. I can't for the life of me remember if the proper EOH was installed in McGann's TARDIS at the end or sometime in the movie.

 

There's nothing I can do...I am going to have to watch it again *G*

 

He could be a fake, but it's possible that he really is the Dr. and the writers as you say, just don't want to bring too much of the old series into it.

 

Tho if you delve into the UNIT site you'll see that a certain UNIT person has been smitten by the Dr. in the past. And remember what the Dr says regarding UNIT in the AOL episode?

 

They won't remember him, he's changed.

 

Perhaps a boo-boo on the writers front, or another clue that something's certainly askew.

 

[GorunNova]

So why would Clive not have stumbled into any previous incarnations? Did the Time War wipe out the prior versions? If so, then how would this Doctor have regenerated?

 

Or is this Doctor a fake?

 

... or it could be that they'd have to write up agreements for using pictures of the other actors with those actors or their estates...

 

As far as in-series references, I'd agree with RSAntilles... maybe he's only looking for Doctors that match the current one's description... or he found info about other ones, but without enough description to give him the impression they looked different. Maybe it's just that the only picture sources he had were of the most recent Doctor, out of sheer coincidence...

 

Waitamin... didn't Clive say that the Doctor had different appearances, though? (Methinks I have yet another excuse to rewatch... ^^)

[Fenriswolf]

I dont think RTD would allow anyone to write for the series if they didnt care it had a 42 year history. The Clive storyline and his researching the Doctor thru history is probably due to him just looking for this one man, he had no idea he could regenerate into another body, so theres a good chance he did find info on 'other Doctors' but simply thought nothing of it if that info showed the face of previous incarnations.

 

Just a thought! Even Mickey & Rose dont know he can change yet! Rose knows hes 900 years old but hasnt a clue that its been in different bodies hehe!

 

Ah I love you (in a friendly way) RS! You helped me crystalise what I was thinking just. He'll be looking for the image he knows of the Dr.

 

So the others will pass him by. Chances are if he dug around looking for other repeated images, he might find several of the Dr's of the past.

 

I also think that RTD would not employ someone who didn't care: I mean Gattis and he go way back as well as Gattis being a huge Dr. Who fan.

 

You can tell that from the Unquiet Dead, that was almost classic Baker era Dr. Who imho.

[Antilles]

Phew I thought you were doing a 'Captain Jack' for a minute! :)

 

And yes it certainly had a Philip Hinchcliffe feel to it. I was recently watching the extras on the Pyramids of Mars DVD and there was quite a bit of info about the Hinchcliffe years, he, like RTD certainly knew how to write/direct/produce bloomin great Doctor Who stories.

 

PS I stumbled across another torrent site where they had posted a 345mb Doctor Who series 27 E09 file but it was listed as being titled 'Gothic'.....what was that all about, someone renaming episodes for a giggle or just some idiot! Sorry off topic again lol

[Fenriswolf]

Phew I thought you were doing a 'Captain Jack' for a minute! :)

 

And yes it certainly had a Philip Hinchcliffe feel to it. I was recently watching the extras on the Pyramids of Mars DVD and there was quite a bit of info about the Hinchcliffe years, he, like RTD certainly knew how to write/direct/produce bloomin great Doctor Who stories.

 

PS I stumbled across another torrent site where they had posted a 345mb Doctor Who series 27 E09 file but it was listed as being titled 'Gothic'.....what was that all about, someone renaming episodes for a giggle or just some idiot! Sorry off topic again lol

 

Hinchcliffe amongst others inspired me to write, they definitely have the feel of the old Baker Whos. Like ep 9, that was full of Baker's darker stories, great stuff.

 

OT: As for the torrent...well...is it the release group or was it posted as just Gothic or what?

[petra1989]

I liked how Clive almost, but not quite got the Doctor. He nailed down that the Doctor was an alien, but I think the other forms would have been hard for Clive to accept.

 

Think how long it took the Doctor to convince the Brigadier that he was the Doctor.

 

Mickey got a little further and made the connection to UNIT, but I haven't seen anything yet that would show that Mickey knows about theDoctors previous lives. If he does, than Mickey is far more intelligent than we are first led to believe.

 

If you go on to Mickey's site, you can find references to the other incarnations. look in the contact webmaster link.

[TV Man]

So why would Clive not have stumbled into any previous incarnations? Did the Time War wipe out the prior versions? If so, then how would this Doctor have regenerated?

 

Or is this Doctor a fake?

 

... or it could be that they'd have to write up agreements for using pictures of the other actors with those actors or their estates...

 

True, but given that's never stopped multiple versions of the Doctor appearing in an episode in the past (The Three Doctors, The Five Doctors), but good point.

 

 

As far as in-series references, I'd agree with RSAntilles... maybe he's only looking for Doctors that match the current one's description... or he found info about other ones, but without enough description to give him the impression they looked different. Maybe it's just that the only picture sources he had were of the most recent Doctor, out of sheer coincidence...

 

Waitamin... didn't Clive say that the Doctor had different appearances, though? (Methinks I have yet another excuse to rewatch... ^^)

 

I don't remember. I need to rewatch the first episode again too. Watching it the first time around I think I was too much in shock (realizing that the Doc was back after a much too long hiatus) to notice all the details.

[TV Man]

I also think that RTD would not employ someone who didn't care: I mean Gattis and he go way back as well as Gattis being a huge Dr. Who fan.

 

That was what I meant to say. As a contrast, look at what Ron Moore is doing with Battlestar Galactica. It is a completely different series from the original, whereas RTD appears to be continuing the story and slowly filling us in on what's happened to the Doc in the last ten years (assuming McGann is considered canon).

 

You can tell that from the Unquiet Dead' date=' that was almost classic Baker era Dr. Who imho.[/quote']

 

Yes, very much so. Although I'm still waiting for more episodes of the characters running through seemingly endless corridors.

B)

[coolcat13]

if we are to believe the BBC sponsored web sites then the Dr has established ties to former companions a post by Sara Jane Smith and especially the one by Yates shows that the Dr's influence is still around .couldnt tell you if this particular Dr is a doppleganger or not but he acted like he just regenerated in Rose when he looks in the mirror

just a few things to keep in mind