Can the way you read affect your thought process or personality?

[BorisP]

Can the way you read affect your thought process or personality?

 

English is written and read from right to left, from top to bottom.

 

Is this just reading? Is it just the way it happened? Is there nothing at all behind that style of reading other than convenience?

 

If you believe that the way you read can affect your thought process or personality, could you please describe your thoughts about your position.

 

Remember. We are all the upper percentile smart Sci Fi guys here. We are supposed to be able to figure this stuff out.

 

Do you have what it takes to really be Spock or Data?

 

Pretend the question is asked by an alien race. Answer and you live. Answer poorly and the Enterprise gets blown up.

[mcant]

I've never really thought about it before, but one incident to factor in was the failure of a washing powder advertising campaign, it featured before and after photographs on a billboard

 

Sales went down in some arab/Indian countries due to the pictures being left to right, subconciously it looked like it made your clothes dirtier

 

interestingly it happened even in areas with low literacy!

 

So maybe ethnic or cutural groups develop a reading style that mirrors their, what, I dont know, brain activity?

 

I'm just rambling now and pondering rising rates of illiteracy, dyslexia etc

 

edit = just remembered that some runic scripts where written left to right then right to left on alternating lines, so you read it as one long line, thats gotta be the most time eficient method of reading!

[TetsuoShima]

Everything you do affects your personality, some things more than others, furthermore, if your doing something also has a clear goal, not some random action, the effort to reach this goal will affect your personality even further.

 

It goes both ways, your personality also affects what you do and what you don't do, in what way you do it, how long it will take you to start doing it, once you're doing it, how long it will take for you to stop doing it,....

 

Specifically for reading, it is sure to affect your personality somehow, but the effect will be smaller than the influence of your parents for example and bigger than the influence of what you had for breakfast this morning.

 

Any statement more specific than this would require a thorough (statistical) analysis and a random but large group of people being observed for at least a few years. There would have to be made comparisons between children learning a specific language and people who allready know one, special attention should be given to children learning two uncomparable languages at the same time (ex.: English langyage and Arabian language).

 

Maybe a study of this has allready been done, but I'm not in the mood right now to do an internet search on the subject. The first three paragraphs are my perspective on the matter, the last two is to give you an idea of what would need to be done to make an actual scientific statement about these matters. Pure speculation will get us nowhere and any conclusion you might make based on speculation will not be provable. Since you made the link to Spock and Data, you realise that they hardly ever made speculations and if they did, it was on orders of their captain and usually they added that they were not certain about their speculations. If they were, it ususally started like this: in theory.... With this subject right here however, we have no theory to base our speculation on, so therefore it would be futile to make specific speculations, random guesses based on intuition is the best you can expect without make a full statistical analysis a significant part of the worlds population.

 

That said about the specifics, I stand by my own personal 'random guess'. :)

[psheldrake1]

 

English is written and read from right to left, from top to bottom.

 

 

I must be different. I write english left to right.

[TetsuoShima]

 

English is written and read from right to left, from top to bottom.

 

 

I must be different. I write english left to right.

 

LOL, great, I acually didn't notice that when I read this post. Apparently my thought processes must be affected for the worst. :D

[BorisP]

 

 

Any statement more specific than this would require a thorough (statistical) analysis and a random but large group of people being observed for at least a few years. There would have to be made comparisons between children learning a specific language and people who allready know one, special attention should be given to children learning two uncomparable languages at the same time (ex.: English langyage and Arabian language).

 

psheldrake? You get promoted to Away Team Captain. You spotted wrong information and pointed it out before anyone else.

 

(/me turns bright red. There is a reason it is backwards. That is a subject for another one of these training threads).

 

 

Tetsuo. I disagree we need a big study. I agree that Spock and Data used hard facts. That puts me in a little bit of a bind. I think I can get out.

 

If you meet someone from another culture, and they know something you do not, do they have to prove it to you with a scientific study? Say we beam down to the planet and it is pre industrial. The people tell us "See that purple plant. It is poisonous. We use it to kill animals".

 

The people don't have science. They have no study to show you to prove the plant is poisonous. But their lifelong experiences have shown them the facts are true just as much as a scientific study did.

 

At what point do we trust in the experience and observaton of a person? Uncorrobated information that only he seems to understand?

 

--

 

Maybe I should narrow down the "Personality Change" phrase.

 

Is the way that you think, Personality?

 

If you tend to approach a problem with a certain method and you tend to choose particular solutions, is that Personality or something else?

[psheldrake1]

 

 

Being a scientist. I use facts in determining my conclusions.

[str82u]

Which way is Braille written? I think I saw a guy reading it from the outside in, both ways if you understand me.

 

A lot of the Zen and Buddhist books I've read included the original text, which in Chinese was read top to bottom, then left to right. I can't read it, but I don't believe that the direction you read makes a difference since you are only taking in one word or phrase at a time anyhow.

 

I believe that this would only be saying that the direction your eyes move while reading makes you smarter. Different languages are structured differently and I could see that more than direction that someone reads that language.

[mcant]

in chimese the 1st page is what an english reader would call he last page

 

just thought I'ld mention that to totally confuse the picture

 

BTW English Braille is left to right (no idea about arabic Braille)

[maverick]

i often read in the library. people often say, "quiet fella."

 

think the two are related and give away personality traits which have developed as aresult of reading?

[TetsuoShima]

Tetsuo. I disagree we need a big study. I agree that Spock and Data used hard facts. That puts me in a little bit of a bind. I think I can get out.

 

If you meet someone from another culture, and they know something you do not, do they have to prove it to you with a scientific study? Say we beam down to the planet and it is pre industrial. The people tell us "See that purple plant. It is poisonous. We use it to kill animals".

 

The people don't have science. They have no study to show you to prove the plant is poisonous. But their lifelong experiences have shown them the facts are true just as much as a scientific study did.

 

At what point do we trust in the experience and observaton of a person? Uncorrobated information that only he seems to understand?

 

That would be a very fine argument, but there is one thing that makes it a bit more difficult to apply in case of a living being with a free will. The (fluids in the) plant kills, that would be a given fact and fairly easy to test. The testing would only be necessary if you have some reason not to trust the person telling you this, or if you want to know what exactly it is in the plant that is so lethal.

 

People however are not such a simple subject and statements about people can hardly ever be made in cold hard facts when it comes to personality traits. This is exactly the reason why in modern psychology there is made such extensive use of statistics, to mellow out the differences in personalities between people. You can only do this when you've got a sufficiently large 'polling' group. Depending on the kind of statement you wish to make this group can vary between a few hundred, up to a few hundred thousands. I'm not enough of an expert when it comes to this to tell you how large a group would be needed in this case.

 

However, if you still would insist on not making a full analysis of the problem, you'd still need someone who has come in contact with all (or mostly all) population groups. And have that person make his say about the subject, because all other people would only be making guesses.

 

As you say yourself:

 

.....But their lifelong experiences have shown them the facts are true just as much as a scientific study did....

 

You need someone with enough experience. Now, how much experience you need, is another subject, that would have to be decided by the person in question, or you in this case. Since you asked the question. You could however start a whole new discussion about how much experience is needed for the 'average' person, but then you'd have to keep in mind that there is no such thing as an average person... But I'm getting off topic here.

 

Maybe I should narrow down the "Personality Change" phrase.

 

Is the way that you think, Personality?

 

If you tend to approach a problem with a certain method and you tend to choose particular solutions, is that Personality or something else?

 

That is another interesting question. It would most certainly be influenced by a persons education. Someone with a scientific background would almost certainly choose a different method of solving a problem than someone with a background in actual 'at-hands' education. I'm not saying either one is better here, it is the actual solution that is found that determins wich method was better and even then that statement is not exactly true, since someone else using the same method might have found a different solution that was even better than the one already found.

 

So I guess I'm saying that an approach is decided partly by ones personality and partly by ones education. However, a new question rises here: is your personality influenced by your education. In personal experience I'd have to say: yes it is. So then you'd need to know how much of your personality has been influenced by this to make a statement about wether approach is based solely on personality or not (since education influences personality, education can be deleted from the influence list (for approach) if your personality is largely based on education).

 

I do think that this latest factor however depends on your own personality, meaning that not everyone is equally influenced by education, also it depends on your own personal surroundings (rich/poor, fast/slow, loving/materialistic, ...). So you see, the question was a fairly simple one, but to answer it and the other questions that rise here, you need to take in account a lot of other variables.

 

But here I am again with my scientific approach. Guess you've got me figured out by now hé.

 

One thing you can do with a scientific approach that you cannot do with an 'experience' approach, is attach probabilities. You can say my statement is correct with for example a 95% certainty. You cannot do this with the experience approach, all you have to go on then is: do I trust this person or don't I. Usually this is a lot harder to accomplish in a global society since trust is earned and it takes a long time to earn it.

 

As an ending statement: I do not find myself qualified enough to make a full statement about the original subject (reading and personality) for you to trust upon because I simply do not have enough experience in this field.

 

Wow, now that was long text. Hope you get through it allright! :)

[BorisP]

 

Being a scientist. I use facts in determining my conclusions.

 

And that will forever be your limitation. If you choose that path, there are things that you will never learn.

[BorisP]

Which way is Braille written? I think I saw a guy reading it from the outside in, both ways if you understand me.

 

A lot of the Zen and Buddhist books I've read included the original text, which in Chinese was read top to bottom, then left to right. I can't read it, but I don't believe that the direction you read makes a difference since you are only taking in one word or phrase at a time anyhow.

 

I believe that this would only be saying that the direction your eyes move while reading makes you smarter. Different languages are structured differently and I could see that more than direction that someone reads that language.

 

 

See? This does work. This guy is onto what I want to talk about.

 

You got to think about things and know people. I talk about evolution all the time right? I talk about kung fu and yoga and exercise right? Then I ask you a question about the way reading the language affecting personality.

 

If you know all that, it is a pretty good educated guess that the answer to my question has to do with something physical, not the mental aspect of reading and personality.

 

I bet this guy answered without going thru that process though. He just threw something out. And he is on the right track for what I want to discuss.

 

The thing you want to think about is 'direction the eyes move". I don't want to blurt it out cause I think it is good exercise for people to think.

 

Testsuo? Yes I did get thru your post. Hmmmm. I think you are talking too scientific. For me anyways. I think you are getting tied up in being absolutely scientific.

 

How do you deal with people with more experience than you? If you go to a construction site and there is a professional welder there and he tells you how to do a good weld, do you believe him? Do you accept that he is older than you, that he has been welding for 20 years and that his experience is just as valid as a scientific study?

 

There are scientific studies saying what a good weld is. The man might be able to tell you where they are. That is a lot of trouble. Seriously, would you understand the studies that verified what he said?

 

If I tell you I can read body language, do you believe me? You can say I am full of bull. I can say it is not because I am full of bull but because you have not trained yourself to see it. See the difference? How can I prove to you something that you are incapable of understanding? You don't have the training to understand?

 

At some point in life in just about all subjects, you have to let down your guard and let someone tell you new stuff. If you insist on scientific studies to prove everything, it will take you 5 years just to learn one new thing. It would take that long to read all the studies and verify them.

 

This is way too long. But I can't stop without saying "What about liars and bad people and incompetents"? Incompetents can tell you something they sincerely believe and be totally wrong about it. People feel that way about me. But I feel that way about medical doctors. Then you have your bad people that purposelfully lie to people to keep them stupid. Stuipid people are unable to challenge anyone for power.

 

There is a science discipline called Phrenology. It has been "debunked by scientists". I say that is a purposeful lie to keep people stupid and uninformed. I am shutting up now. ;)

 

 

[TetsuoShima]

Testsuo? Yes I did get thru your post. Hmmmm. I think you are talking too scientific. For me anyways. I think you are getting tied up in being absolutely scientific.

 

How do you deal with people with more experience than you? If you go to a construction site and there is a professional welder there and he tells you how to do a good weld, do you believe him? Do you accept that he is older than you, that he has been welding for 20 years and that his experience is just as valid as a scientific study?

 

Yeah, I know you didn't want to go the scientific way, but I've been trained to do just that. I was actually trying not to overdo it.

 

As for the welder: most likely I'd believe him, just because of what you said: he's got the experience and I'd be able to see that he has it with my own eyes. There'd still be the possibility that he would be 'pullng my leg', but I've got enough trust in myself to find out he was doing that within a minute or 10.

 

Still, observations about people are very hard to make, that is because it is very hard to remain objective about something that concerns yourself as well as others.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like the philosophical approach you're taking, but I find it very difficult to just believe any random statement someone makes. I have to try to understand it for myself and see reason in it before I can do that, but hey, that's just me. I might be overly defensive in this respect, but it sure has helped me not to get fooled before.

 

As for the eye movements: I wouldn't be to quick to rule out the possibility that someones eye movements cannot affect that persons thought processes. It is known that a lot of people visualise the things/objects/theories they are thinking about. It would seem very likely to me that if you build an object from left to right, that the endresult might eventually look different then when you build it from right to left.

 

If I tell you I can read body language' date=' do you believe me? You can say I am full of bull. I can say it is not because I am full of bull but because you have not trained yourself to see it. See the difference? How can I prove to you something that you are incapable of understanding? You don't have the training to understand? [/quote']

 

I don't think it's bull at all, you've just got a different way of approaching problems than I do. I would even believe you when you say you can read body language, but I wouldn't trust on your ability to do so correctly every time very much, since I believe you can, at least partially, alter your own body anguage so that it suggests something else than what you are actually feeling.

 

Well, I hope you see I'm trying to be less scientific on this one and follow your reasoning. I find this a quite interesting subject!

 

btw. I don't trust meds either! :)

 

 

EDIT: hmm, my quote doesn't seem to be working, don't know what's wrong with it though, sorry about that.

[GorunNova]

I'm of the point of view that humans, in general, are irrational and emotional things that see patterns all the time where there aren't any patterns to be seen, or misread patterns that are there. Science is a process of sifting through information, and through systematic study and reproducable experimentation one can discover what patterns are real ones. All ideas are doubtful, but science can help verify ideas, refine them, eliminate ideas that don't work or don't describe the evidence properly, and come up with a basis for exploring new ideas that have more chance of also work.

 

Ideas without verification or basis are opinions, and opinions are suspect. Also, ideas backed by desire, emotion, or wishful thinking are also suspect.

 

A good example of this is the idea of an afterlife. None of us want to die, and so therefore we invent an afterlife we can go to after death. It's common to all cultures, because everyone fears death to some degree until they've inventend one, whether it's heaven, nirvana, another lifespan through reincarnation, or even unification with the Universe (yes, that's technically an 'afterlife' concept...) The thing is, we ALL want that very badly, so therefore the idea is VERY suspect because we are so vulnerable to blind acceptance of it.

 

As far as age and experience are concerned... yes, experience can lead to wisdom, but there's also a saying... "There's no fool like an old fool." Experience can be good, but it can also reinforce the bad if misinterpreted... and people in general are really, really good at misinterpreting.

 

I stick to science because it's the only thing we have that has reproduceable, verifiable results backing it... and the scientific process is the best and harshest way to test ideas that we have in order to discover and eliminate flaws.

 

*ahem* Somewhat off topic... well, linguists and sociologists have been studying different cultures and their languages for a long time... and they would seem have much evidence supporting the idea that language and culture are coupled very tightly. If a word for a concept is absent from a language, odds are that culture doesn't have that concept, and the people in that culture can't comprehend that concept without adapting a word for it from another culture.

 

I wonder if the fact that English feminine pronouns are virtually always extensions or derivatives of masculine ones explains sexism in english societies, or is simply a symptom of it?

 

Even though it involves magical martians, I recommond reading 'Stranger in a Strange Land' by Robert A. Heinlein. If anything, it demonstrates this idea fairly clearly...

 

Edit: I can read body language, too... very handy skill to have ^^

[psheldrake1]

 

Being a scientist. I use facts in determining my conclusions.

 

And that will forever be your limitation. If you choose that path, there are things that you will never learn.

 

 

I have been studying science most of my adult life. Through experimentation I get facts. Without facts you can't form an opinion/conclusion.

 

You can spend you're whole life learning and not learn anything of value.

[BorisP]

 

As far as age and experience are concerned... yes, experience can lead to wisdom, but there's also a saying... "There's no fool like an old fool." Experience can be good, but it can also reinforce the bad if misinterpreted... and people in general are really, really good at misinterpreting.

 

 

Edit: I can read body language, too... very handy skill to have ^^

 

Let's see.....

 

"No fool like an old fool." There is nothing I can tell you about this that you will like. I cannot prove it to you because of the very nature of human beings.

 

When you get older you grow, obviously. Most people think this means growing up or getting physically strong. That is true but that is not all. All people should gain other abilities when they get old. These other abilities give them insight that you, as a young person without the abilities, can never, never see. It is not because you are stupid. It is because you do not have the equipment.

 

For instance, lots of people talk about human beings having a third eye. What if I told you this is true and that it usually does not open up until a human being gets older, or they do certain work to make it open earlier?

 

This means, it is not true but for the example, this means I would have one more eye than you do. I have 3 eyes, you only have 2. It would be natural to assume that I can see more with 3 eyes than you can with your 2.

 

If I say to you, "I know this" and you disagree "I don't see anything"......What do you do when I say "I saw it with my 3rd eye"? You don't have a 3rd eye. There is no way you can disprove what I say. Do you accept that I can see more than you? Or do you get an ego and say "No way does anyone have more than me. He is a liar and I don't believe a word of it"?

 

You do have to be careful with this stuff. This is how con men and criminals work. Let's say a holy man convinces you about the 3rd eye stuff. Then some con man who watched it all comes to you and says "I have a 3rd eye. Give me money because I see something happenening to you". You believed the holy man about the 3rd eye so you give the con man the money. Then you find out later the guy was a con man and stole your money. He took advantage of the trust you gave the holy man. Many people will say "all of them are lying. Because that con man cheated me, that means they are all cheats". Then you never trust anyone again and you can't learn the stuff you need to learn.

 

It is all difficult. Let me tell you something. I talk to people all the time about various things. When I do, I meet lots of disbelief. When this happens, almost invariably I will come across something that supports exactly what I was saying to the person. It is as if a god or someone listened to the conversation and gave me the proof so I could convince the person. This can happen even before I actually have a conversation.

 

For instance. I found a great photo yesterday. Today I come here and I find myself talking to you about something that this photo confirms. I got the proof before I entered the conversation that needed it. Is that proof of a greater godly power? I don't know. What do you think?

 

Here is your picture. It must have been given to me for you since the conversation fits it perfectly. I am not going to describe it. If you look first and think, you brain makes it's own impression without me influencing you.

 

I will say that you should pay attention to what I said above when you look at the picture. Then we will talk about what you see and what I see. Maybe I can break your reliance on science.

 

http://www.happeh.com/Images/Zap.jpg

 

I would like you, or anyone else, to describe what they see and how they feel when they look at this picture.

[BorisP]

 

I wonder if the fact that English feminine pronouns are virtually always extensions or derivatives of masculine ones explains sexism in english societies, or is simply a symptom of it?

 

^^

 

Did you know the English language is bad for you to speak? For a reason very similar to the one I am asking about reading left to right?

 

No. I haven't forgotten this was about "Does reading English left to right affect your personality"?

 

I would ask someone who considers themselves the research member of the away team to find and post how

 

Chinese

 

Arabic

 

Hebrew

 

Japanese

 

are written traditionally. Some of them may be chaning in the modern world. I think Chinese is changing I read somewhere.

 

Then, after you find the answers, I would like your opinion on what you find. If they are all the same, what does that mean? If they are all different, why? Humans are all the same. Why do they write different? If you notice groups, why are the members of the groups associated with each other?

 

Remember. You are an away team member on the alien Planet Earth. This is not a discussion where you are trying to decide if I am telling you something worth knowing. You are a scientist presented with a group of facts. It is your job to sift thru the facts and present an intial report of your findings to the captain.

 

Don't be afraid of saying the wrong thing. Scientists always say the wrong thing until they hit on the right thing. Say what your impressions are. That is what the away team does.

[TetsuoShima]

Well, I don't see where you're going with this picture stuff, but I'll play along. :)

 

I see: A guy in front of a drawn picture of an explosion who's trying to grab me. He looks friendly, but he could be faking. Maybe he's an mp** guy who wants to get my IP (I'm a wee bit paranoid!).

 

I feel: a bit threatened and quite stupid for feeling this about a stupid pic.

 

Does this help you? I still don't see where you're going with this?

[BorisP]

 

Being a scientist. I use facts in determining my conclusions.

 

And that will forever be your limitation. If you choose that path, there are things that you will never learn.

 

 

I have been studying science most of my adult life. Through experimentation I get facts. Without facts you can't form an opinion/conclusion.

 

You can spend you're whole life learning and not learn anything of value.

 

Let me ask you a question psheldrake.

 

You and I are at the grocery store. I see you in the aisles. Becuase I am not a good person, I make a snap judgement about you. I decide that you look like a homosexual.

 

We walk towards each other down the aisle. As we get close, my revulsion overcomes my manners. I say to you "&&ggot!"

You plainly hear the word ""ggot".

 

There is one problem. You didn't hear it with your ears. I have telepathy and you heard me tell you in your head that you are a ""ggot".

 

What do you do? You don't believe in telepathy so you refuse to consider that possibility. Your scientific experiments and facts tell you that people only hear with their ears.

 

But when you look around the aisles in the store, no one else is paying attention. If someone calls another person ""ggot, isn't it usual that everyone around turns and looks to see if there is going to be a fight? But no one turns around. In fact, no one is acting like anything. They act like nothing happened at all.

 

But you know that you heard me call you ""ggot. What do you do? Do you tell yourself "I am imagining things because science says there is no telepathy"? Or do you consider that since no one else heard anything audible, that maybe you are wrong and there is such a thing as telepathy?

 

There is no way to prove it. You have to take it on faith. If you come to me and say "Did you mental telepathy me and call me ""ggot"?, I am going to deny it of course. There is no way for you to receive corroboration of what happened.

 

What is your reaction to an occurrence that you "know" is impossible according to your science?

 

Most people either 1) ignore what happened, 2) consider the possiblity they could be wrong, or, if they accept what happened, 3) they go crazy.

 

When you break the foundations of a person's beliefs, they go crazy. It is natural I think. It is like a house shifting if one of the pilings is broken. You take a person who refuses to believe anything but scientific fact and you incontrovertibly prove to them that telepathy or mysticism is real, they will go crazy. They are filled with fear because their security blanket of science has been taken from them.