Pella Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Since this is the mirror universe board, it seems a good question to ask. Are there allternative realities. It has been said that we live in a multiverse and that there are ifinite versions of reality and infinite possiblities. Well I suppose it would prove the existance of God. Seriously tho, for me I can't agree with the theory because it would cause to many paradoxes - the main one being similiar to 'The Grandfather Paradox' with time travel. For example, in one reality I find away to destroy the entire multiverse and every version of reality. In another version of reality I stop myself from doing this and so on, ad infinitum What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 I Voted no but it might be nice to have one alternate realitly like the Mirror Universe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 here is a very brief version of my opinion on this matter... yes, it involves time travel, but from the view I proposed, travelling in time is very much connected to travelling in space and between universes (i.e. time travel is simply travel to a universe with a matching past, or (in a very limited sense) the past of your own universe) You'll note it's a very deterministic view of things, but the good news is that it is impossible to isolate an exact future, and only possible to isolate a past because of foreknowledge (assuming it's possible at all), making the model's deterministic nature irrelevant. ... it is simply one variation on the quantum multiworld theory, structured so as to eliminate the possibility of paradox. Edit: This is as firmly in the realm of conjecture as the quantum multiworld theory itself... and I don't claim otherwise ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 YES! I come from an alternate reality. Here's a picture of me with scissor feet (hard to get proper fitting shoes where I come from). Seriously though...yes. I believe in alternate realities. Anything is possible. c4 B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolcat13 Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 my view of an alternate reality is quite probably different from everyone elses .I believe that man is given a scope of existence to live in . the decisions that he makes are free willed .those decisions are permenant but the future holds an array of possiabilities based on decisions that we have yet to make in that aspect there is an alternate reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 I dislike the All Possible Universes theory on asthetic grounds. It implies that there really are no choices. Whatever choice I make in this universe, I make a different one in another universe. My experience of me is merely the me who has navigated a particular set of junctions. But there are me's who have made every other possible choice at every other junction. And vast numbers of universes where I don't exist. And vast numbers of universes where people don't exist. Etc. But "alternate realities?" Could be. Just like the shaman visit the Other World ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Ah, but you can never know WHICH you does what, meaning that even though it's all predetermined... the effect is the same as if you had free choice (i.e. nobody knows what they will do beyond a certain amount of probability, no matter how much data is collected because some info is mutually exclusive ^^... the uncertainty principle strikes again! :D) It's all set in stone, yet still random... the best of both worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frodoxxx Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 dosent matter what i decide, if there are alternate universes and i say no, then somewhere i else i said yes, and if i say yes and there are no alternate universes then what does it matter anyway. Besides my head hurts thinking about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Yeah, but it's more complicated than that... This is oversimplification but an astronomically large number of you said yes in many variations, another astronomically large number said no in many variations, another astronomically large number times another astronomically large number of you said an astronomically large number of other things... and so on, with none of them able to tell which of them did what. The slightly smaller astronomically large subset of each of those that represents those that said the exact same thing in the exact same wouldn't be able to tell which is in what universe, and thus the future is unknown for all of them... ... Did I make your headache worse? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Ah, but you can never know WHICH you does what, meaning that even though it's all predetermined... the effect is the same as if you had free choice (i.e. nobody knows what they will do beyond a certain amount of probability, no matter how much data is collected because some info is mutually exclusive ^^... the uncertainty principle strikes again! :D) It's all set in stone, yet still random... the best of both worlds. Perhaps why there is so much of the vulgar and the banal around - in other universes, these were great works of art or astounding crystalline formations - here they're just the ugly mediocrity of life. I agree, the me of any particular path appears (to himself) to have free choice. But all the me's stacked up don't. I find that aesthetically displeasing. It means that even if I make a good choice when faced with a complex decision or a difficult moral crux, that "forces" another me to make a bad one. "Forces" is a lousy word and misleading. I spawn another universe with another self which takes the other path. Or perhaps that other self spawns this universe ... :o :o :o :o I'm going back to the brain in the bottle theory! I've become an anarcho-solipsist. "Woe unto him who gaineth the world but loseth his solipsism!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Yeah' date=' but it's more complicated than that... This is oversimplification but an astronomically large number of you said yes in many variations, another astronomically large number said no in many variations, [i']another[/i] astronomically large number times another astronomically large number of you said an astronomically large number of other things... and so on, with none of them able to tell which of them did what. The slightly smaller astronomically large subset of each of those that represents those that said the exact same thing in the exact same wouldn't be able to tell which is in what universe, and thus the future is unknown for all of them... ... Did I make your headache worse? ;) Not in an astronomically large number of universes ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juhan Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Assumption: My answer is "yes". but in infinitessimal alternate realities, My answer could be "no" "maybe" "I don't know", or I may not have joined this board, or NiteShdw may be interested in Barbie dolls and not Star Trek. Since the result of this assumption is that there are varied answers which challenge the original assumption, thus the original assumption is false. Try new assumption: my answer is "No." There are no other answers because there are no alternate realities. Hence, and also by Acoms theory (that the simplest answer is usually the right one), there is no alternate reality. So choose your paths well. And don't smoke. =p =Han= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralLee Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 I voted YES, as I have experienced alternative realities and "Universes," if you will, first hand. Besides, even Quantum Mechanics is pointing us into this direction, via things such as String Therory, and others. I'm not sure how "God" fits into all this (I prefer to use a different non-religiously toned "word"), but, it all certainly does seem to indicate that we live in an incredibly profound Cosmos, whether or not the Cosmos that we seem to perceive as the reality we know is all there is or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 I find that aesthetically displeasing. It means that even if I make a good choice when faced with a complex decision or a difficult moral crux, that "forces" another me to make a bad one. "Forces" is a lousy word and misleading. I spawn another universe with another self which takes the other path. Or perhaps that other self spawns this universe ... Not really... all making a good decision means is that you made a good decision... the version of you that would make a bad decision would make that decision regardles of what -you- do. Also, what's this thing about spawning? It's all already there, in an enormous sea of probabilities... not only does nobody spawn any other version of themselves, but other than the cases where there's crossover they don't affect each other in any way either... so don't worry about it! No evil you is making you do good ;) Edit: ... unless he's crossed over and is threatening the lives of your loved ones to make you be good? Naah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pella Posted September 8, 2005 Author Share Posted September 8, 2005 For those who do believe in alternate realities, how do get around the paradox I mentioned in the opening post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZaphodiLe Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 I personally have not seen or read anything indicating or giving any proof that there is multiple universes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 Simply put, if your grandfather didn't get killed when you were young by someone looking like your older self, then no you went back into your past and killed gramps, because a living gramps (or one killed by someone other than your future self) happens to be one of an infinite number of properties uniquely identifying your universe, at least, according to the model I was juggling around. Your particular past and future is set in stone among all the realities, but thanks to the impossibility of getting enough information to isolate your own reality (thank you, uncertainty principle!), it has the effective result of a static past and unknown (or only foggily predictable) future from your perspective. ... also, (another thank you to the uncertainty principle), you only can isolate your past foggily and by the recordings of past events in writing, memory, or other media... meaning that it's pretty much guaranteed that you could travel back to -a- past, even a past virtually identical to your own past, but not your own past. The only way to truly visit your own past would require circumventing the uncertainty principle and calculate the proper universe by means of a snapshot of it's state... including simultaneous momentums and positions, which is why it can't be done while bound by the uncertainty principle. Edit: The only way you could possibly get back to the universe you came from is if the transferrence happened in the form of some sort of gate... as long as it is kept open, return is still possible. The moment it closes, you'd have to isolate your own universe again, and that can't be done without circumventing the uncertainty principle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pella Posted September 8, 2005 Author Share Posted September 8, 2005 Your particular past and future is set in stone among all the realities, but thanks to the impossibility of getting enough information to isolate your own reality (thank you, uncertainty principle!), it has the effective result of a static past and unknown (or only foggily predictable) future from your perspective. ... also, (another thank you to the uncertainty principle), you only can isolate your past foggily and by the recordings of past events in writing, memory, or other media... meaning that it's pretty much guaranteed that you could travel back to -a- past, even a past virtually identical to your own past, but not your own past. But in a multiverse with infinite realities, there are infinite possiblities. Therefore in one those realities (or more accurately an infinite number of them), you would be able to figure away to time travel back to your own past and negate the uncertainty principle (and thus enter your own acutal past not a facsmilie of your past) and in the same way, because we have infintie possiblility, in an infinite amount of those realities i have destroyed the entire multiverse and in more infinite realities I have prevented myself from destroying the multiverse,but in a further infinity of realities, not only have I destroyed the entire multiverse, but I come up with a way of preventing anyone travelling from an alternate universe from stopping me from blowing up the multiverse - ad infinitum. Thus we have an infinite amount of paradoxes. And since I'm here typing this, nobody can have blown up the multiverse. This why I can't accept that there are alterate realities. I can except other planes of existance, but not an infinite number because again we would have the same paradox. I really hope that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted September 8, 2005 Share Posted September 8, 2005 That's the thing... you can't negate the uncertainty principle... you can only determine exact momentum or exact position, but not both... it's a central point of quantum mechanics. Also, could you imagine what it would take to calculate every single existance/nonexistance state of every possible (not existing, possible) particle in an entire universe, plus the exact physical laws, and so on... to still hit the wrong universe because that universe differs in only the fact that it isn't the universe you were trying to reach? Edit: ... also, if your own universe has a living grandpa, going back in time and killing that grandpa is like trying to get to your own past whilre deliberately picking another one... you just chose -not- to go to your own past, so therefore you didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pella Posted September 8, 2005 Author Share Posted September 8, 2005 That's the thing... you can't negate the uncertainty principle... you can only determine exact momentum or exact position' date=' but not both... it's a central point of quantum mechanics.[/quote'] But surely if there is infinite possiblities, all laws of quantum mechanics/physics/time travel can be broken and or warped? or at least the possiblity exists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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