Second Age of Man

[guyver12]

More and more TV shows and books are starting to work on the premise that their was an earlier, more advanced race that evolved here on Earth before current day man. Do you think that in the millions of years before recorded history, that this is possible?

[zgamesforu]

Yea there are some pretty advanced ancient civilizations, and they might just be the ones that survive. Anything is possible

[yelluh]

Yea there are some pretty advanced ancient civilizations' date=' and they might just be the ones that survive. Anything is possible[/quote']

 

Ofcourse anything is possible Bryan ;) ... but what ever happened to the inca´s ?

And what happened to the knowledge the egyptions ones had ?

[psheldrake1]

 

 

No. Where still in our impudence

[Elladan]

Interesting question, and one that I've asked myself a million times... I once read an article about the history of man before the Ice Age. 200.000! years of generally the same circumstances as current day... be it a little warmer.

 

We are supposedly in a short period within a large-scale Ice Age, a period of warmth and glacial melting before another freezing. If so, we are currently in a transitional climate.

 

Humans can survive Ice Ages. Proven fact, since bones and near complete skeletons older then 24000 years have been found both in ice and in the ground.

 

So if all this is true, we have a historical "gap" of 200.000 years wherein humans lived in their current being as homo sapiens sapiens, thus capable of every advance we have made. Since this is very likely to be the case, mankind may have reached far further in science then WE have at this moment, after 20.000 years. Maybe even traveled into space... maybe even faster than light??

 

But here, in the last line we passed from hypothetical history into wishful thinking, haven't we???

 

With the greatest respect,

Elladan

 

On a personal note, I would love to believe the theory that JRR Tolkien has launched, being that Elves existed alongside men. Since Elves were (as he put it) not exactly fit for cold temperatures (which is why some Men were friends of Elves, to guard the northern part of an evil fortress, on the northern tundra) it would be reasonable to assume that they would either die out or leave for someplace hot (maybe not on this planet). That would be fun in my opinion... ;)

[maverick]

...... we have a historical "gap" of 200.000 years wherein humans lived in their current being as homo sapiens sapiens, thus capable of every advance we have made. Since this is very likely to be the case, mankind may have reached far further in science then WE have at this moment, after 20.000 years.

 

With thequote]

 

LIKE it elladan, especially the bit about palaeoclimate.

your theory doesnt take into account evolution, unless ther was a previous race of superior beings before us. but that would make them something other than human.

which could be quite exciting.

on the other hand 200,000yrs of evolution of our brains and understanding have got us this far.....

 

but i like the theory man

 

laters dudes

[maverick]

 

.....we have a historical "gap" of 200.000 years wherein humans lived in their current being as homo sapiens sapiens, thus capable of every advance we have made. Since this is very likely to be the case, mankind may have reached far further in science then WE have at this moment, after 20.000 years.

 

LIKE it elladan, especially the bit about palaeoclimate.

your theory doesnt take into account evolution, unless ther was a previous race of superior beings before us. but that would make them something other than human.

which could be quite exciting.

on the other hand 200,000yrs of evolution of our brains and understanding have got us this far.....

 

but i like the theory man

 

laters dudes

[xtremeskiing]

no, all were missing is atlantis, which was nothing more, if it existed, then a civilization slightly more advanced then the egyptions and greeks of the times. We would have proof if their was a spraling civilization more advanced then our own.

 

someone tried to make their point to me the other day about this, they said is buied under thousands of miles of earth, ice and water. I hated to break their bubble, but you go down that deep and your in the mantle. anyway, its just us here, no stargates, no antartic borg, just us and mayby a few martian bacteria fossils.

 

i wont however dismiss the possibility that extraterrestrials may have visited ancient times as we still dont have any good explinations to the pyramids.

[VonHelton]

More and more TV shows and books are starting to work on the premise that their was an earlier' date=' more advanced race that evolved here on Earth before current day man. Do you think that in the millions of years before recorded history, that this is possible?[/quote']

 

The ancient cities of the Inca, Toltec, Aztec, etc are built so precise, you can't fit a human hair between the stones.

 

.....How could mere "savages" build buildings like that??

 

:stare:

 

Yes, I believe we are the "second batch".

 

:thinking:

 

 

[quosego]

 

 

if i'm correct the entire 200,000 year gap thingie is not entirely correct... it is really a 100,000 year gap.... in that time we did already have the brains we have now. so it could be possible that a few (smart) people builded a nice civilization and died again. it took us 2000 years to get to something... (including the middle-ages which can be seen as a total waste of time). so building starships and stuff in an earlier period could have been possible.

[thanatos355]

this is all well and good. unless you are a creationist! ;)

[Elladan]

someone tried to make their point to me the other day about this' date=' they said is buied under thousands of miles of earth, ice and water. I hated to break their bubble, but you go down that deep and your in the mantle. anyway, its just us here, no stargates, no antartic borg, just us and mayby a few martian bacteria fossils.[/quote']

 

I would like to theorise and comment on what you state.

 

Is there a known material, capable of withstanding mantle-temperature and -pressure? No. Not at the moment, that is... but we DO have a theory that an "isle of stable superheavy atoms" exists (look it up, it's on this URL: http://www.phschool.com/science/science_news/articles/new_elements_pop.html).

If these superheavy atoms (like 118 and up) are combined and integrated into steel or something, they can hold entire clusters of matter with them. Their enormous mass gives them an exceptionally powerful atomic bond. A bond that cannot be broken, but by ultimately high temperature and pressure.

 

Let's assume these new metals can withstand the pressure and temperature of the mantle of this planet.

Would we not have achieved this in, let's say 1000 years from now most certainly? I know, it's a VERY long time, but I am now playing the pessimist. We are now on the verge of discovering these new elements already, so in 1000 years we most definitely will have them applicable for plating.

Let's suggest that we use the new plating for equipping a pod, a life-supporting pod. 1000 years from now we should be able to create an independent life-support system, shouldn't we?

 

Good. Now that we have our pod, we use it to travel 1000 miles downward. We will be deep inside the Earth's mantle, indeed. Temperature will rise, pressure will exponentially increase, but, since we use the new metals, our pod will hold.

Life support will hold as well, since it is independent. WE will hold as well, cause the life support does.

Isn't this a rational idea? Sure, lots of wishful thinking... but nevertheless. And to make this post worth your reading let's go on...

 

Now that we are safely settled at a depth of 1000 miles, we survive. We get children and stuff and everything, in short, we survive, our species survives.

 

Anyone can understand that the presence of a small pod or some clusters of pods will not be noticed by any sensor as of yet.. The presence of metal is based on fluctuations in Earth magnetic field, sure... but only when either the mass is huge or the distance is virtually none compared to our pod's, will the metal be detected.

By the way, we do not even know of the superheavy metal! How, for Heavens sake, how can we then succesfully find such a pod unless the inhabitants (if still alive) will allow us to find them?? Not. Unless we make the proper advances.

 

There is no proof FOR my theory, but neither is there proof AGAINST it.

There are however suggestions, and they strongly point in the direction of this theory. The metals are on their way, other planets seem uninhabitable or unreachable, etc.

 

Decide for yourselves.

 

 

quosego, the 200.000 year gap may indeed be incorrect. I took the time from a rather general timetable... so I may be mistaken. Still, you can reach a great lot of things in 100.000 years, can't you?

:)

 

your theory doesnt take into account evolution, unless ther was a previous race of superior beings before us. but that would make them something other than human.

which could be quite exciting.

on the other hand 200,000yrs of evolution of our brains and understanding have got us this far.....

 

My opinion is this: Evolution of sentient creatures itself is, as a concept, flawed. Non-sentient creatures indeed follow every law and instinct set in their genes, but sentients seem to have "another way of thinking" (yes, nonsentients don't think, you can think so.. it matters not for the following). For example, take a look at the next. It may be a bit radical, but it is the idea that I want you to take a look at.

 

The further the human species progresses, the more they wish to embrace the weaker parts of their society, their pack.

By allowing "weak-of-genes" to live among the pack, their strength is increased and they will be able to survive. The very effort and time spent on saving them, even allowing them to spread their disrupted genes is ultimately degenerating the human species, until they come to their senses. That usually takes a war or three and the collapse of some Empires or Powers... but they will come to their senses and save their race. Their genes however will still be affected by the linear heritage of disrupted genomes.

 

Summarising this: Humans are, as an organism, degenerating. We had our peak, aeons ago, and now we are slowly but steadily degenerating.

 

Aside from the fact that 100.000 years of evolution according to the modern theory cannot have such profound effects on a species, WE may have been superior to what we are now. Take a look around! Don't you see, people with disrupted genes, having kids aplenty through new insemination technology? Can you not see, can you not foretell the end?

 

I for one am not about to ask for a change in the course of history, but I am appealing to your common sense. I am not asking you to go out and eliminate all disrupted genes from our midst, for that would be against all rules of my own mind.

I DO ask that you consider my theory... check it with what you think yourself, with what you see... and then decide.

 

With the greatest respect,

Elladan

[thanatos355]

it's a scary damn thought ell. i think we've all ponderd something along these lines before. at one time or another.

[elderbear]

Yea there are some pretty advanced ancient civilizations' date=' and they might just be the ones that survive. Anything is possible[/quote']

 

Ofcourse anything is possible Bryan ;) ... but what ever happened to the inca´s ?

And what happened to the knowledge the egyptions ones had?

 

The Spanish happened to the Incas. Jared Diamond devotes an entire chapter of his Pullitzer Prize winning Guns, Germs, and Steel to the reasons why they were conquered by the Spanish instead of vice versa.

 

Egyptian knowledge? Burned up in the Library of Alexandria. While quite sophisticated, there is little evidence to suggest that the Egyptians knew more than the ancient Greeks, much of whose mathematical esoterica has survived.

 

And before anybody responds with a lot of rehashed Eric von Doniken, answer this question first: "If the ancients were so advanced or had contact with advanced, space-faring races, where are the artifacts which can unambiguously be attributed to higher technology? Where is the stainless steel? The titanium? The residues of lubricants and advanced organics?" There aren't any.

 

While "primitive" civilizations have very sophisticated survival technologies (for example, to live as a New Gunieau highlander, one requires the equivalent of a college degree in order to farm successfully in that environment ... although education in their complex farming technology is much less formal), they do not exhibit evidence of having developed modern technologies, nor having used them in the past.

[quosego]

Elladan,

 

As a response to your semi national socialist theorie, (no disrespect intended but it does resemble it a bit) I have to agree, we are doomed. But we also can not start purging our gene pool, we can only hope science will bring us a solution before we will have a de-evolution, but what goes down must go up. as we will fall down natural selection will occur again and bring us back to what we are again... Maybe this is the cycle that we are going trough. And this is indeed the second age of man.

[Elessar]

You're all forgetting the things Star Trek has tought us about intergalactic colonization...There could have been a race of some kind living here at one time who had interstellar capability but rejected its use (see Baku, Insurrection).

 

Or in any case what if they rejected their technology? Or there was some gargantuan natural disaster...naturally I can't say "what if *THIS* happened, that'd destroy all their steel and etc" b/c we don't know about all the various technological and natural disasters which can befall a race. We don't have any idea about their cultural organization, what if they had ONE of what we might call a city, they didnt' spread out, and one terrible thing happened in that whole area.

 

When he said "What happened to the Incas" I don't think he meant the eventual conquering by the Spanish, I'm not completely polished on my history but can someone refresh me, wasn't there like a 500 yr period where the Incas just dissappeared from history? And then suddenly traces of them sprout up again...Sorta like the Roanoke Island thing. Anyway idk, but there was some spooky shit goin on.

[Elessar]

If there was a spacefaring race and they were part of some galactic community (like the Alpha Quadrant) that we don't know about, it'd sure as hell be hilarious if in like 300 yrs when we get out there somebody's like "Well Goddamn it sure as fuck took you long enough, we've been waiting for you for 80,000 years!"

 

Or that could be the UFO encounters we hear about....Our long-lost galactic neighbors coming to see where we went off to.... :stare:

[Elessar]

Many of these "what-if's" are put down by the scientifically based observation that we are able to accumulate of the things around us, "why don't we find relics" and if you were to ask somebody "Could there have been another solar system nearby like Alpha Centauri that's now gone, moved by some natural or aritificial mechanism?" the answer would naturally be from a scientific standpoint that "We see no evidence of that nor have any models which project such a thing occuring".

 

But the point at which a race, any race, humanity or an alien race, becomes capable of manipulating things like molecular and atomic structures, the fabric of space, harnessing gravitational forces, manipulating the live cycle or processes in stars, etc - once you've got those possibilities, those are essentially science-killers when you talk about what you can and can't prove. If you wanted to say "But somebody could have moved the solar system with technology beyond our comprehension right now", that's definitely true, but it's a self-sustaining argument, it can't be argued against.

 

HOWEVER, I'm not actually attacking these types of arguments, rather I'm saying we have to be aware that those concepts exist, that in the path of unpredictable future or alien technology, if you concieve the possibility of there being infinite possibilities to manipulating the physics of our universe, then it's a forced-admittance that we really have no completely accurate way to prove or disprove things about the cosmos by pure observation. We can say "This is the most likely natural process by which *X* occured outside of aritificial influence" which when said that way is kind of obvious sounding, but I think it's often forgotten.

[maverick]

hey elessar

would quote you directly but i keep messin up. i like your theory on heavy elements. but how would propulsion occur inside the mantle?

magma is pretty viscous and travels at cmyr-1 in some cases. crustal and mantle processes was second year so the figures are a bit vague but if you move that stuff around too vigourously it could have adverse effects in the earths surface.

 

moving on, i like the idea that man had a more spiritual or ethereal understanding of the nature of the universe in ancient times, but the idea of a prior civilisation is unlikely.

 

i will ahve to do some checking but around 100ky ago climate near the equator may have been pretty similar to now. the break up of pangaea was well underway and the continents had a shape recognisable as their present day form. i think global ocean circulation may have established itself in the atlantic so the planet wouldnt have thrown up any great reason around then to scarper.

 

rackin my brains here but got my dissertation on so am not focussed on anything else.

hmmm

[Elladan]

Hey! Maverick I think you mixed our names up as well... ;)

 

I'll respond l8er. K?