mic Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Interesting question, and one that I've asked myself a million times... I once read an article about the history of man before the Ice Age. 200.000! years of generally the same circumstances as current day... be it a little warmer. We are supposedly in a short period within a large-scale Ice Age, a period of warmth and glacial melting before another freezing. If so, we are currently in a transitional climate. Humans can survive Ice Ages. Proven fact, since bones and near complete skeletons older then 24000 years have been found both in ice and in the ground. So if all this is true, we have a historical "gap" of 200.000 years wherein humans lived in their current being as homo sapiens sapiens, thus capable of every advance we have made. Since this is very likely to be the case, mankind may have reached far further in science then WE have at this moment, after 20.000 years. Maybe even traveled into space... maybe even faster than light?? But here, in the last line we passed from hypothetical history into wishful thinking, haven't we??? With the greatest respect, Elladan On a personal note, I would love to believe the theory that JRR Tolkien has launched, being that Elves existed alongside men. Since Elves were (as he put it) not exactly fit for cold temperatures (which is why some Men were friends of Elves, to guard the northern part of an evil fortress, on the northern tundra) it would be reasonable to assume that they would either die out or leave for someplace hot (maybe not on this planet). That would be fun in my opinion... ;) Sorry to jump on your parde modern homesapins (whith ability to use spoken words and comunication) only existed for past 50 000 years, the homosapines is only old about 125-150 000 years and its earlier form humans wern't able to talk but had simmuilar communication abilities as monkeys and other primates but more advanced. Homo-erectus from which we evolved is about 1.5 million years old but this where primitive hummans in comparison to us, and this would not be candidtes for space exploration :cyclops: But to make this conjecture more certain you can find more on the net, look at antrroplogical studied done by British and canadian scientist in africa and Britihs Mesuem - well look on the net to get more educated... Unfortunelty we are most advanced versions of humsn and we are evolving constantly. Humans are geting more intelegent and more able , live longer this are just few indicators of our genetical improvemnts and evolution thast we can ce directly... hopw this helps, dont you love science :cyclops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elladan Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Homo Sapiens Sapiens, "modern man": oldest finding dated 130.000 years old Check in the thread "Are we alone..." I wrote about a website where it was said... Also the gap was reduced to about 100.000 years in the follow-up... With the greatest respect, Elladan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ResidentNice Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 Just thought i would put in my thoughts...... No one here in this thread seems to have even entertained the idea that humans create such ideas (of aliens from other worlds coming to earth; or that civilisations existed before recorded history that could have been space faring - the list could go on) because we fear, above all else, that we are alone in the universe. Nobody even considers it. It is too damn depressing to think that we, the human race, are alone. It would be nice, that we werent alone, but i suspect that if humans do become space faring, it wont be as diplomatic as star trek or as fantastic as star wars; but dirty, nasty and the first species we meet may end up destroying us. Also, evolution is somewhat trickier a subject because evolution takes an almost inconveivable amount of time to 'happen' and anything significant, that would benefit a species as a whole, can only be properly identified retrospectively - we can only see how we humans evolved thousands of years after the fact. -=ReZ=- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killbenau Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 this is a most interesteing thread, this site is great. Full of thinkers and freedom of thought. That is something humanity will always have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 Hey! Maverick I think you mixed our names up as well... ;) I'll respond l8er. K? yeh, sorry boys laters :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elladan Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 i like your theory on heavy elements. Thx for that. but how would propulsion occur inside the mantle? magma is pretty viscous and travels at cmyr-1 in some cases. crustal and mantle processes was second year so the figures are a bit vague but if you move that stuff around too vigourously it could have adverse effects in the earths surface. I knew someone was going to say things like that... Let's take a look at quicksand. Quicksand is pretty viscous as well... though nowhere near as viscous as magma, if you wish. I could go nitpicking about the injection of a needle in quicksand, or even the fall of a drop of water in an ocean... But this is not about such things. In air, we use aerodynamic forms for aeroplanes and rockets. In water, we use hydrodynamic forms for submarines. Even though the shape of modern submarines is still miles away from being 99% hydrodynamic, we ARE working on it. In magma, we could use magmadynamic things? Nope. Magma behaves like a liquid in all circumstances, so hydrodynamic forms and shapes would be fine for a magmatic vehicle. The resistance would be very small for a vehicle of such shape... it would require not much power for a propulsion device to propel it through the magma. Take for example the hydromagnetic propulsion system known as "caterpillar" that uses the magnetic abilities of water to create some sort of marine jet engine... isn't the magnetic ability of hot magma much greater than this mere water? Could we not use the caterpillar friction drive unit for our LITTLE vehicle? Current calculations on magma movement and the effects of internal movement are a little more refined as: Push a brick in a bathtub and the waterlevel rises. Aristotle would be satisfied with such calculations, but we are not. You say "if you move that stuff around too vigourously it could have adverse effects in the earths surface". Yes, you're right. IF we were talking about injecting an object the size of 10 cubic kilometer, it would definitely affect the surface, and it would matter for our vehicle's journey. Since our vehicle cannot be 1 cubic kilometer in size, but is huge enough with a size of 125.000 cubic meters (100*50*25 in rectangular shape, because the calculation of a hydrodynamic shape would be too complex to make here) which equals 0.000125 cubic kilometer, there would be no significant movement in the magma surrounding our vehicle, so no go for the tectonic problem. Secondly, this entire discussion about the influence on the magma and the velocity of magma is irrelevant, since IF we have created a vehicle with an independent life support system, WHY would we not travel at a little above magma velocity if necessary? I know, it'll take a lot of time before we reach our desired level of depth, but we'll get there (at least the children of the children of ... of our children) in time. We do have time aplenty, don't we? No threats lurk deep inside the earth as far as we know... There is no life in the void, nor in the mantle of the earth. Our pod will be safe forever. moving on, i like the idea that man had a more spiritual or ethereal understanding of the nature of the universe in ancient times, but the idea of a prior civilisation is unlikely. Why? Because we cannot stand the idea we might be degenerate descendants of a superior human breed long forgotten? Because WE are the SUPERIOR ones?? Because History, repeating itself, only improves us over time? Because evolutionism does not support the degeneration of a species? Ha. :) 1. The degeneration of man is proven in the assimilation of degenerates among humans in present day society. I am not preaching the cleansing of the human genepool as some think, but I am stating the fact that humanity is weakening itself by willingly accepting weaker genes in their genome. Now don't go around slaughtering weaker humans, because I told you to, right? I DID NOT. Let's have that clear. My ideas may have roots in semi nationalsocialist ideas, but this makes not that my entire reasoning is nazistic and as such disgusting, does it? I am not calling for a genecleansing, I merely await the next Ragnarok or Apocalypse. 2. SUPERIOR? Even more "ha". Humans have, with all their technological advances, dulled their 7 senses. We cannot comprehend anything unless some extremely powerful stimulus hits their senses. Isn't it obvious? All animals have things in which they excel. Humans have the hatred of nature as their strength. Their idea of superiority is blinding their perception, and yet it makes them strong... for without reservation humanity destroys genetic information (stored in the animals humans murder) with which mankind could enhance itself. If only there was one man realising the effects of this foolish thought pattern... But there is none. 3. Three words: The Dark Ages. Can mankind not be in such a transitional phase? Maybe indeed are humans being improved. But only through degeneration can there be advance. Can you replace a computer's processor without taking it out first? 4. Degeneration flows from the non-evolutionistic ways of present day Man. They accept and even encourage the assimilation and implementation of flawed genes in their own and then start wailing that so many people die of god-knows-what disease. This is only a logical consequence of keeping genes that cause immunological failures... is it not? Enhance those genes. Find out who carries the faulty genome and repair their children's before they are even inseminated. Genetic enhancement? No, says mankind. Genetic repairs? Yes, I shout. i will ahve to do some checking but around 100ky ago climate near the equator may have been pretty similar to now. the break up of pangaea was well underway and the continents had a shape recognisable as their present day form. i think global ocean circulation may have established itself in the atlantic so the planet wouldnt have thrown up any great reason around then to scarper. Assuming that this 'scarper' means leaving this earth or at least it's surface... Does THIS earth give us any reason to leave? Yes, it sure does, overpopulation, famine, you name it. You have a good point there, I must admit. I cannot argue with it. I will however seek out arguments against it, for I do believe there is something wrong with it. Besides, I cannot just surrender to human reasoning... without exceeding the rules and sharing knowledge with you none of you could ever comprehend. rackin my brains here but got my dissertation on so am not focussed on anything else. You are giving a good argument. I like this. You think further and more serious than most humans I know... but still you are stuck in the thought pattern set for you, biologically. Exceed that and you may yet find wisdom beyond comprehension. I realise I sound very radical at times. I am not intending to overthrow all human ideas of reality and psychology though. At times I may sound a little bit out of reality, by using the term 'humans' instead of 'us'/'we'. I realise this. I am using the terminology on purpose, since we must realise that humans are not the superior species we think ourselves. What does our beloved mr. Spock say? "It is typical human arrogance to believe that any message sent would be meant for them. There are and were more sentient species on Earth." I'll end this post here... but I will keep responding to all your comments... ;) With the greatest respect, Elladan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 More and more TV shows and books are starting to work on the premise that their was an earlier' date=' more advanced race that evolved here on Earth before current day man. Do you think that in the millions of years before recorded history, that this is possible?[/quote'] The ancient cities of the Inca, Toltec, Aztec, etc are built so precise, you can't fit a human hair between the stones. .....How could mere "savages" build buildings like that?? :stare: Yes, I believe we are the "second batch". :thinking: I'm leaving you my entire Eric von Doniken collection in my will! B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 this is all well and good. unless you are a creationist! ;) Don't they call it "intelligent design" now? :cyclops: :cyclops: :cyclops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkusSVK Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 Lett me say that evolution works on the principe of chaotical mutations and theire results in practical life of a subject.It can make you more adaptable(advantage in reproduction). And homo sapiens sapien recensis(WE) exists for the last 20-24 000 years. An advanced predecessor before humandkind? Why not. :) The only thing that the next ice age brings is a decimation of population. There was someone before us and there will be someone after us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thanatos355 Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 hell i dont know elder. they can call it everything but what it is.....crazy! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 I'm leaving you my entire Eric von Doniken collection in my will! I'd be delighted! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 I'm leaving you my entire Eric von Doniken collection in my will! I'd be delighted! :D My executor won't have to spend much on shipping ... B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 No one here in this thread seems to have even entertained the idea that humans create such ideas (of aliens from other worlds coming to earth; or that civilisations existed before recorded history that could have been space faring - the list could go on) because we fear' date=' above all else, that we are alone in the universe.[/quote'] Sorta like Freud's conjectures about how humans invented god. (not that I take Freud seriously) It requires existential bravery to consider that we are alone. Also' date=' evolution is somewhat trickier a subject because evolution takes an almost inconveivable amount of time to 'happen' and anything significant, that would benefit a species as a whole, can only be properly identified retrospectively - we can only see how we humans evolved thousands of years after the fact.[/quote'] Fortunately, we don't have to evolve with the huge leaps between species. Dogs have "evolved" since paleolithic times. One of my mutts is a dachshund/terrier mix. He's a cute little guy and a great retriever. Very difficult to see the wolf in him much of the time. Yet, 40,000 years ago, his ancestors were wolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 hell i dont know elder. they can call it everything but what it is.....crazy! ;) But, there's no refuting the argument that "God created it to look this way to test our faith ... the universe really is 6,000 years old!" I suppose one could venture into philosophy and theology to discuss the possible existence of such a Trickster - Creator - Destroyer Being. But life is too short to waste energy on such imponderables ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRenegade Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 The only thing I have to say, is where's the proof. If man was once as advanced as we are today, where are the cities? The rocket launch pads? and all that stuff? Thats all for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 The only thing I have to say, is where's the proof. If man was once as advanced as we are today, where are the cities? The rocket launch pads? and all that stuff? Thats all for now. http://www.rense.com/general61/vaman.htm http://www.earthmatrix.com/serie26/pakal.htm Enjoy! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daffydk Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 The only thing I have to say, is where's the proof. If man was once as advanced as we are today, where are the cities? The rocket launch pads? and all that stuff? Thats all for now. http://www.rense.com/general61/vaman.htm http://www.earthmatrix.com/serie26/pakal.htm Enjoy! :D I must say, alot of speculation and imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 I must say' date=' alot of speculation and imagination.[/quote'] The writings have been confirmed as genuine. The Aztec temples can be visited. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 I must say' date=' alot of speculation and imagination.[/quote'] The writings have been confirmed as genuine. The Aztec temples can be visited. :) so youre saying that what theyre saying is true? that its not speculated on and is irrefutable fact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonHelton Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 so youre saying that what theyre saying is true? that its not speculated on and is irrefutable fact? What I'm saying is that something impacted their lives enough that they had to write it down and/or build fantastic buildings. :thinking: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now