Tenebrae Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 The inherent difference between ID and creationism is that ID TRIES to be scientific. On to Creationism this is interesting if you consider say the taoist view of the universe in this religion the universe is without beginning and without end so essentially has more truth and correlates better than any scientific model of the universe. Well... did you contradict yourself... because really, the concept - as most notably espoused by Stephen Hawking - of a universe with no beginning or end is if not common in physics, it's certainly not uncommon. Additionally - let's assume that there was an alien intelligence from another universe? How did they gain intelligence? But yes, your point is valid - creationism was essentially the beginning of the universe to 6000 years ago. Evolution is the point at which habitable planet Earth to exist all the way to today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberbob Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 I've seen precious little discussion and analysys so far. Perhaps I should insult and belittle those who disagree with me as so many here do. That has been quite effective so far in winning hearts and minds, hasn't it? After all, when logic fails, just call them 'stupid'. None of this has ever helped anyone's cause. 1) The whole point of my posts is that the Christian religion is devoid of logic and I used logic to show how that is the case. 2) Witch hunts, crusades, slavery, the pushing west of and the slaughter of native americans etc... How many horrible things have we done in the name of god? I would not be so adament about my negative feelings towards most Christians except that I see where this country is going. Laws being passed against gays? The made up "war on christmas"? Our president's invasion of Iraq being a "mandate from god"? The list goes on and on. What I think is funniest is our complaint of jobs being outsourced from the US to China and India...where did you think they were going to go? China just announced over the weekend that they would be increasing spending in science and technology this year by 20 PERCENT while we argue about whether or not to teach evolution in our classrooms? Are you kidding me? Our test scores are dropping like stones. Its sad that this trend will not change and our country will just grow weaker and weaker while we drag the rest of the world down with us. I was thinking the other day about the absolute funniest thing about all of this. We do, right now, have about 7 categories of anti-biotics (I would say 8 but Ketek and Omnicef are still debateable). Last year 90,000 people died from resistant strains of diseases. We are to the point now that we have actually got a drug that we are calling our "last hope" anti-biotic (Colistin). Doctors refuse to use it on anybody unless they will def. die from something because if diseases become immune to it - we are screwed. The catch? It destroys your kidneys. Now, every time I go into the doctors I hear these loud Christian mothers yelling about how their child needs to have some medicine and how the church is praying for them. They just have to have some anti-biotics. The doctors tell them no, it is viral and yet the mothers insist. Now dont get me wrong, it is negligent as hell for the doctors to give in but I guess that if you have these people yelling at you for medicine every day that it would get hard. Anyways, they give the kids the anti-biotics when they dont need them and diseases just become more resistant. When there is a major pandemic caused by one of these superbugs I am just going to roll on the floor laughing because the mothers, yea, they will be dieing from diseases that they helped to evolve!!! They will essentially be killing themselves with something that they dont even believe in!!! Why do I seem to take such a hard stance on this and why do I fight so hard against the ignorant Christian ideology? Because people vote with it. They live with it and it affects me. My gay friends can not marry. Why? Because of that damn hypocritical book. I have to fear a plague. Why? Because of the ignorance that the Christian religion helps to create within this society. I get to watch as our government tries in vain to put tarrifs and sanctions on other countries goods so that we can stay in our happy little bubble rather than better ourselves and educate ourselves and in the process we alienate the rest of the world. Why? Because we refuse to face the hard truth that we live and then we die and that is the end. Instead we would rather hold hands and read one or two verses of a book that we are basing our ETERNITY off of (most never even read the whol thing) and pretend that we can ignore everything else in life unless the moddy bible institute and focus on the family say we should and then we can stick our heads back in the sand that is the warm and fuzzy, "god loves me and I love you and love love love everything is ok if we just mindlesly believe". Well guess what, in seing what it is doing to the rest of the world and in seing what it is doing to this country, I am not ok with that and if it takes me being an asshole sometimes, I'll do it. I'd rather people hate me but still have them take a deeper look at what they believe in and ask the tough questions (even though 99/100 still wont after reading this) than sit back and feel guilty that I am letting the world go to hell around me without trying to fight back. Call it tough love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 When thinking of America these days, I do feel there is a certain parallel with the season 4 episode of B5 - Endgame. I do worry about America, why by the time China and India are ruling the world in 40 or so years time - they're likely to be far more liberal and open socities than America is... although, America is a very complicated place. Still, these days it seems like the only think that is going to stop Blacks and Women losing the vote is probably going to be a fall out between conservative christians and neo-cons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDad Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I was thinking the other day about the absolute funniest thing about all of this. We do, right now, have about 7 categories of anti-biotics (I would say 8 but Ketek and Omnicef are still debateable). Last year 90,000 people died from resistant strains of diseases. We are to the point now that we have actually got a drug that we are calling our "last hope" anti-biotic (Colistin). Doctors refuse to use it on anybody unless they will def. die from something because if diseases become immune to it - we are screwed. The catch? It destroys your kidneys. Now, every time I go into the doctors I hear these loud Christian mothers yelling about how their child needs to have some medicine and how the church is praying for them. They just have to have some anti-biotics. The doctors tell them no, it is viral and yet the mothers insist. Now dont get me wrong, it is negligent as hell for the doctors to give in but I guess that if you have these people yelling at you for medicine every day that it would get hard. Anyways, they give the kids the anti-biotics when they dont need them and diseases just become more resistant. When there is a major pandemic caused by one of these superbugs I am just going to roll on the floor laughing because the mothers, yea, they will be dieing from diseases that they helped to evolve!!! They will essentially be killing themselves with something that they dont even believe in!!! So you are saying antibiotic resistance is entirely the fault of Christianity? I'd like to see some statistics to back that one up. It's only logical to expect you to have evidence to back up such a sweeping accusation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steveo Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I think that was implied there, yes. That's won my mrize for the least sense made in a post all day. Blaming christian mothers for superbugs such as MRSA, when it's the medical profession, not the patient, who is to blame for that mone more than anyone else (and dirty hospitals). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Maybe anti-evolution types don't believe in drug resistant strains. They would after all be a tangible proof therein... or at least so much as any scientific theory can ever be proven. But yes - it goes without saying the foolish use of antibiotics by everyone, doctors, patients and pharmacists is much of the reasion for MRSA and similar. When will society accept individuals need to start accepting blame, not passing it on to someone or something... or God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDad Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 That's my point. That was an example of 'logical argument'. It's not helping anyone's cause to make hysterical claims like that. When it gets to the point where you can't tell which side has lost it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exterus Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I can't argue with evolution's evidence and I've yet to see anyone seriously dispute the theory. Please read any post in this thread by wahaha. Biblical creation' date=' like its pseudoscientific counterpart intelligent design, can't be compared to evolution as they are by definition supernatural events which can't be scientifically analyzed nor replicated under laboratory conditions. Neither do they belong in school. I'm sure you wished to imply that I lacked the conviction to stand behind my views. I'm just certain enough of my views that I'm not threatened enough by anyone who questions or disagrees with me to stoop so low. I have many friends and coworkers who are Christians and I would never treat them or any other people with the contempt and disrespect you and others have exhibited, just as they have done with me despite my views.[/quote'] I don't have any respect for creationists. So I don't see why I should plaster on a fake smile and pretend to be respectful. The same goes for fundamentalists. The new kind of liberal christians I can tolerate, since they bend over backwards trying to adapt and thus doesn't cause as much harm as the fundamentalists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I can't argue with evolution's evidence and I've yet to see anyone seriously dispute the theory. Please read any post in this thread by wahaha. Biblical creation' date=' like its pseudoscientific counterpart intelligent design, can't be compared to evolution as they are by definition supernatural events which can't be scientifically analyzed nor replicated under laboratory conditions. Neither do they belong in school. I'm sure you wished to imply that I lacked the conviction to stand behind my views. I'm just certain enough of my views that I'm not threatened enough by anyone who questions or disagrees with me to stoop so low. I have many friends and coworkers who are Christians and I would never treat them or any other people with the contempt and disrespect you and others have exhibited, just as they have done with me despite my views.[/quote'] I don't have any respect for creationists. So I don't see why I should plaster on a fake smile and pretend to be respectful. The same goes for fundamentalists. The new kind of liberal christians I can tolerate, since they bend over backwards trying to adapt and thus doesn't cause as much harm as the fundamentalists. MOD NOTE: Maybe because on this forum it's a rule. To be respectful of each other's views and beliefs. c4 B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exterus Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 MOD NOTE: Maybe because on this forum it's a rule. To be respectful of each other's views and beliefs. c4 B) Alright, I'll stop posting then. :) If anyone needs me my email is in my profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Maybe we should powder your butt and change your diaper before you leave? c4 :thinking: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exterus Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Maybe we should powder your butt and change your diaper before you leave? Now, wasn't that a little disrespectful toward my views and my beliefs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberbob Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 So you are saying antibiotic resistance is entirely the fault of Christianity? I'd like to see some statistics to back that one up. It's only logical to expect you to have evidence to back up such a sweeping accusation. That is NOT to say that Christian mothers are soley responsible. We pre-emptively shoot up livestock with the stuff juts in case they get sick and cows especially end up putting it out in their milk. A recent study showed that milk from all over the country showed traces of the same kind of anti-biotics that we use in these cows. If I say that I am so tired of driving through major cities because of all of the smoke stacks remind me of how bad the companies there are at poluting does that mean that it is all their fault? No. I am driving my car to and I enjoy the electricity that I use and every time that I get sick from bacteria does not mean that I need anti-biotics. I could very well get through most sickness just fine on my own but what I AM saying is that such ignorance spreads out to other areas outside of just anti-biotics. It is the entire mindset that is causing problems. But you know what? I try to get through sickness without anti-biotics(its been over 7 years since ive used them), I drive a hybrid car (not a 400 horsepower earth destroyer SUV), and I dont drink milk or eat red meat. Why? Because I take the time to learn rather than worship so that I can make an informed decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Maybe we should powder your butt and change your diaper before you leave? Now, wasn't that a little disrespectful toward my views and my beliefs? Not at all. You are rude to other people here on this forum and have been warned before. You should re-read (assuming you have read) the posting rules again. You seem to be nasty for no other reason than you want to be. As A MOD and a member, I am asking you for the last time to be nicer to people. If you don't respect their views - don't post. Simple as that. c4 B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exterus Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 As A MOD and a member' date=' I am asking you for the last time to be nicer to people. If you don't respect their views - don't post. Simple as that.[/quote'] That's what I said I would do, wasn't it? Then you cracked that (quite rude, I might add) comment, so I naturally had to stay on and trade jibes with you. If you're going to tell me not to be rude to people and to be respectful, I think it's wise for you to do the same thing. Unless you think I'm not worthy of your respect, that is...but still, that isn't a valid reason for not being respectful, as you said yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 As A MOD and a member' date=' I am asking you for the last time to be nicer to people. If you don't respect their views - don't post. Simple as that.[/quote'] That's what I said I would do, wasn't it? Then you cracked that (quite rude, I might add) comment, so I naturally had to stay on and trade jibes with you. If you're going to tell me not to be rude to people and to be respectful, I think it's wise for you to do the same thing. Unless you think I'm not worthy of your respect, that is...but still, that isn't a valid reason for not being respectful, as you said yourself. I think I've proved my point. You didn't like it either when someone was rude to you...did you. You pitched a bitch just like others have done after your comments to them. Now that we see eye to eye I won't expect anymore of this and we can all be nice and friendly to each other. Have a good day... c4 :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I think his point was that to tell someone to stop making personal attacks against others, and then to follow that up with a personal attack is hypocritical. Don't get me wrong, I like you and don't like Exterus that much... he IS pretty rude at times. ... that is, unless you actually have proof that he wears diapers? (if you do, -please- don't post 'em! There's a rule against indecent, non family material after all! ;)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDad Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I think his point was that to tell someone to stop making personal attacks against others, and then to follow that up with a personal attack is hypocritical. Don't get me wrong, I like you and don't like Exterus that much... he IS pretty rude at times. ... that is, unless you actually have proof that he wears diapers? (if you do, -please- don't post 'em! There's a rule against indecent, non family material after all! ;)) His point was to whine when he was insulted and disrespected while he feels that he does not owe anyone else that same respect. That is hypocrisy. With a little baiting, he made the point himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 In fact, you're all breaking the rule about being off-topic. Me included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostShadow Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I stand up for what I believe in, make no mistake about that. I talk and write to to my elected representatives, I vote, promote and back my causes and organizations that I support with my time and money when possible. I leave the internet schooling and pwning to those foolish enough to think it matters. Here Here, As do I. I stand up for my religion, and I believe we where created by a God. I know ppl are not gonna agree with me on that, its obvious. I spend time in what i find a worthy cause as well. I just want to say that its good to see ppl do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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