Should male/male - female/female - couples be allowed to have children?

[StitchInTime]

". . . you're all going to hell"' date='[/quote']

Actually, sometimes I feel like that's where I'm posting from ;)

 

Edit: Wow, y'all are fast, there were three posts before I could finish this response.

Yes, but all it takes is hours of practice, twitchy trigger fingers, and nerves of steel. ;)

[GhostShadow]

I dont mind as long as they are honest, and teach their children to be open about options, i would just be digusted if the child was only taught to grow up gay. That would diminish the Society of which we live. Children need to know that their are other ways then they ways that their gaurdians are.

 

the Guardians should also have to take classes to learn how to rais a child in that sort of enviroment.

 

I dont think that it is safe for a child to be rasied only being taught gay, b/c that might offend other kids at lets say a school and then that kid would get shjt kicked. I have seen it b 4.

 

 

[philly]

the Guardians should also have to take classes to learn how to rais a child in that sort of enviroment.

 

So what ur sayin is that ud want non-hetro parents to take classes to raise a child??? I can pretty much guarentee that a helluva lot of parents regardless of sexual orientation HAVN'T taken classes in order to raise a child. As well you believe that "that sort of environment" would be a bad thing for a child? The worst thing they could teach a child would be to respect other people for what they are.

[str82u]

Well, in defense of some opinions, we all know too much of a good thing isn't aways good and balance isn't always achievable, but probably best for general living (WHAT DID I JUST SAY???)

What I really mean is this;

While my Ex-Wife is hetero and married, goes to church and doesn't smoke, my feeling is that she goes overboard with church and her religion and teaches my daughter to hate (that's Christian, right?) things I love...like halloween. The same holds true for all things, but in my house I try to support balance and respect. Doesn't work out often, but we keep it between the lines more often than not. They can form thier own beliefs just like everyone else.

[GhostShadow]

the Guardians should also have to take classes to learn how to rais a child in that sort of enviroment.

 

So what ur sayin is that ud want non-hetro parents to take classes to raise a child??? I can pretty much guarentee that a helluva lot of parents regardless of sexual orientation HAVN'T taken classes in order to raise a child. As well you believe that "that sort of environment" would be a bad thing for a child? The worst thing they could teach a child would be to respect other people for what they are.

 

I dont know about you but i have seen some shick shjt in my time. There was this kid in my school who thought that it was cool to be sooo friggin differnet. Now its America you are supposed to ba able to be deiffernet. But this kid... he was out there... He was flaming gay.... and these Nazi beat the living crap out of him, they broke ribs, dislocated his shoulder, and basicly broke him... Now i found out that this kids parents where gay.... he was raised like that. his parents thought they could "stick it to the man" and teach their child to be gay.... they taught him sex-ed. they taught him what they wanted. their was so much gay conditioning, it was sick, at least to me it was since i dont swing that way.

 

And no, the worst thing they could teach their kid was not to keep an open mind, to make them think that they are the only kid in teh world. B/C sick shit like what i said happens... this is not a perfect world, as much as we hope it would be... its not. This is not a "happy fowlery, nothing can bring us down" type of world. Look around humans are not Nice ppl.

 

I know now in one of the states about abortion, that if you get an abortion, that you HAVE to listen to your Doctor explain the entire procedure, explain risks, and explain other options. You have to at least talk for 90 min BY LAW.

 

Now guardians, if the adopt, should take a class like that.

 

maybe something like this should be imposed upon any couple that adopts, not just gay.

[philly]

Well it was their parents choice to teach them that way, but the parents should have known that if they threw him/her out to a school yard where there are Neo-Nazis, punkers etc (kinda like me but i have my own opinions, i dont follow the crowd) that they were gonna get their @sses royally and i mean ROYALLY kicked. As parents they should have realized this.

[Beawulf]

I dont mind as long as they are honest, and teach their children to be open about options, i would just be digusted if the child was only taught to grow up gay. That would diminish the Society of which we live. Children need to know that their are other ways then they ways that their gaurdians are.

 

snip

 

I dont think that it is safe for a child to be rasied only being taught gay...

 

I agree, parents should be teaching tolerence and understanding of people who are different to them. No parent should force their way of life (whatever it may be, sexuality etc) onto their children but let them develop their own identity.

 

I find it distressing hetrosexual families that teach their kids to hate gay people, or in the unfortunate situation where it is their kid that is gay, to hate themselves. These sorts of attitude leads to violence/intolerance, and in the later part of the example, suicide.

 

 

There was this kid in my school who thought that it was cool to be sooo friggin differnet. Now its America you are supposed to ba able to be deiffernet. But this kid... he was out there... He was flaming gay.... [snip]... Now i found out that this kids parents where gay.... he was raised like that. his parents thought they could "stick it to the man" and teach their child to be gay.... they taught him sex-ed. they taught him what they wanted. their was so much gay conditioning

 

I dont think it is right for a parent to "teach their kid to be gay", noone can justify that under any circumstances. It is completely hypocritical considering the gay community's fight for freedom in the past.

 

With your example above GhostShadow, I'm curious if you you actually witnessed any of this conditioning or if you only heard hear-say? If not perhaps the couple adopted a gay child so he could get the support he needs (to put up with ridicule, beatings), or even if they adopted him as a baby, perhaps the child happened to be born gay and they are letting him express himself (plenty of flamboyant people with heterosexual parents).

[TetsuoShima]

Well, now that the discussion is on its way, I'll state my personal opinion. Then you'll immediately know who made that 'strange' vote. :)

 

 

I voted can only adopt, not their own. I would add that this, for me, applies to all people who can't naturally have kids for one reason or the other. I would also not have them artificially have kids, only adopted ones. But that isn't what this discussion was about, so I'll not go into that further. :)

 

 

 

EDIT: Aaaah, cr*p. I voted wrong I see now. It should be adoption allways, of their own never. STUPID ME! LOL

[Ruk]

Thats a very interesting point of view TetsuoShima. I'd really like you to expand upon your reasoning.

 

So are you basically you are only for "natural" pregnancies I take it? Does this mean you likewise are against birth control and other methods that aren't natural?

 

No, I'm stating my personal belief, which was asked for in the poll. ... All I wrote in my original post was what's right for me.

 

However the question asked if gays should be *allowed* to have kids. Thats not quite the same question as asking if you feel them having kids is right or wrong. But no point arguing over semantics, as I see your point.

 

I dont think it is right for a parent to "teach their kid to be gay"

 

I don't think its even possible. The case of John/Joan seems to have proven that sexual identity isn't something that is simply taught.

 

http://www.infocirc.org/rollston.htm

[GhostShadow]

Well it was their parents choice to teach them that way' date=' but the parents should have known that if they threw him/her out to a school yard where there are Neo-Nazis, punkers etc (kinda like me but i have my own opinions, i dont follow the crowd) that they were gonna get their @sses royally and i mean ROYALLY kicked. As parents they should have realized this.[/quote']

 

Aye, you see. But they didnt realize it. and that is why i tink that classes should not be a choice but rather a forced requirment to foce parents to realize that an adopted child needs to have open options.

 

and there are not a few Neo-Nazi, there are dozens of them. So the school cant really do shjt about it.

[GhostShadow]

I dont mind as long as they are honest, and teach their children to be open about options, i would just be digusted if the child was only taught to grow up gay. That would diminish the Society of which we live. Children need to know that their are other ways then they ways that their gaurdians are.

 

snip

 

I dont think that it is safe for a child to be rasied only being taught gay...

 

I agree, parents should be teaching tolerence and understanding of people who are different to them. No parent should force their way of life (whatever it may be, sexuality etc) onto their children but let them develop their own identity.

 

I find it distressing hetrosexual families that teach their kids to hate gay people, or in the unfortunate situation where it is their kid that is gay, to hate themselves. These sorts of attitude leads to violence/intolerance, and in the later part of the example, suicide.

 

 

There was this kid in my school who thought that it was cool to be sooo friggin differnet. Now its America you are supposed to ba able to be deiffernet. But this kid... he was out there... He was flaming gay.... [snip]... Now i found out that this kids parents where gay.... he was raised like that. his parents thought they could "stick it to the man" and teach their child to be gay.... they taught him sex-ed. they taught him what they wanted. their was so much gay conditioning

 

I dont think it is right for a parent to "teach their kid to be gay", noone can justify that under any circumstances. It is completely hypocritical considering the gay community's fight for freedom in the past.

 

With your example above GhostShadow, I'm curious if you you actually witnessed any of this conditioning or if you only heard hear-say? If not perhaps the couple adopted a gay child so he could get the support he needs (to put up with ridicule, beatings), or even if they adopted him as a baby, perhaps the child happened to be born gay and they are letting him express himself (plenty of flamboyant people with heterosexual parents).

 

No, i saw the beating w/ my one eyes, and this kid was adopted when he was a child (says him).

 

 

[Ruk]

No, i saw the beating w/ my one eyes

 

Are you saying the parents beat their kid if he didn't act "gay"? I think we can all agree that qualifies as abuse.

 

But lets not stereotype these folks as representing all gays. After all, its far more likely for a drunken father to beat a daughter for acting "slutty" too. A lot of bad parents out there of all varieties.

 

[GhostShadow]

Can i change my vote, i want to vote to adoption only.

[str82u]

Can i change my vote' date=' i want to vote to adoption only. [/quote']

I'm not sure you can go back to Kansas now Dorothy, or Toto either, but your ideas are clear enough. I do detect that someone posting to this thread is trying to pick a fight though and if you haven't already noticed it, look closer to see if that's right or if I'm just reading more into it than that.

I appreciate the topic, it's a social discussion, if not slightly moral, which is another reason to love being a member here, we aren't just talking about sci-fi constantly, but holding ADULT conversations, albiet one post at a time.

[subspatial]

Yes for me...

 

... but i think that all or any person or persons who want to have a child,

should have to have a license.

Or at least a certificate of adequate care or something.

....and maybe everyone would have to re-new their license evey 5

years or so.... and maybe have to take re-newel classes if they don't pass the

test.

....or so on...

...could make a whole new topic on this..... :)

[subspatial]

BTW:

The recent SouthPark episode "ep9x10 - Follow that Egg "

has a wacky way of sorting out the same debate......

[StitchInTime]

I dont think it is right for a parent to "teach their kid to be gay"

 

I don't think its even possible. The case of John/Joan seems to have proven that sexual identity isn't something that is simply taught.

I think it is possible, in certain cases, that there's more than one way to become gay. From what I know, however, it's extremely unlikely that any gay couple would try to interfere with their child's development, one way or the other. I certainly do not believe that simply having gay parents is going to make a child gay.

[mcant]

Yes for me...

 

... but i think that all or any person or persons who want to have a child,

should have to have a license.

Or at least a certificate of adequate care or something.

....and maybe everyone would have to re-new their license evey 5

years or so.... and maybe have to take re-newel classes if they don't pass the

test.

....or so on...

...could make a whole new topic on this..... :)

 

 

Years ago as a joke I said all chikdren should be reversibly sterilized shortly before puberty. This should only be reversed after they had undergone courses in childcare child psychology etc and passed an exam

 

 

now I'm starting to think it might not be a bad idea

 

(if nothing else it will massively reduce the worlds population within two generations)

 

[synexo]

Continue discussion here

[Beawulf]

I think the discussion is going just fine in here :P

 

 

 

I dont think it is right for a parent to "teach their kid to be gay"

 

I don't think its even possible. The case of John/Joan seems to have proven that sexual identity isn't something that is simply taught.

I think it is possible, in certain cases, that there's more than one way to become gay. From what I know, however, it's extremely unlikely that any gay couple would try to interfere with their child's development, one way or the other. I certainly do not believe that simply having gay parents is going to make a child gay.

 

 

I agree with both of you, I dont think it is something that is or can be taught, or that results from the environment you grow up in. Which is why I was questioning GhostShadow's example.