queenhank Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Actually, he says that he knows he won't die, because he has always known that when he dies, he will be alone. It fits very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhug666 Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 i think the reason why people diddn't like nemasis to much was that the rammnig sequence was similer to the ep VOY year of hell. and because it was the end of the TNG movies, personally i think it was great although the fact that data achieves at the end what he has always aspired to i.e he truely became human (by demonstrating humanities finsist quality) good film , don't rubbish it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 I can see how Nemesis being the last time for Data, and the last movie for the TNG crew (most likely for ever) could be a downside - but if you focus on the film - it's actually really good :) ....in my opinion :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashfox Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 In my opinion i liked the film although i was sad to see data go. i can understand why some people critisise it but overall i think its good. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 My big issues with Nemesis? It was totally and completely inconsistant with the setting. 1) Didn't Data get emotions in some earlier movie? What happened to them? 2) The Romulans are greedy and power-loving, but they're also intelligent and confident in their own racial superiority. There's no way in hell that a takeover by a human clone and a bunch of Remans would be accepted as leaders for ANY reason whatsoever... it would have been civil war for decades where most Romulans would probably prefer death to Reman rule and NOT a nice, demur turning over of power to Shinzon. When the core groundwork for a story is so seriously flawed, the rest is sure to collapse. ;p Anyone who claims to like the Romulans should HATE this movie with a passion just for this! ;p 2 1/2) Remans? Were these guys introduced somewhere other than in this movie as a plot device? You would think that an entire race of slaves and shock troops would have shown up somewhere other than here... there were enough Romulan-based stories throughout TNG and the others. It's obvious when Riker (was it Riker?) mentioned that the Romulans DID use them as shock troops that you would have seen at least one in earlier shows unless it was totally made up for this movie as a plot device. 3) Shallowness. Most of the Star Trek I've watched AND many of the movies give a reflection of a greater universe at work outside of the main story. Nemesis... doesn't. The Enterprise could have been manned only by 15 people and the entire universe outside of Romulus and the Enterprise frozen in time for all it would do to the story. The whole thing felt like it was a veneer spread thin over a big hollow nothing. 4) Bad script. The characters were cliche'd or flat most of the time, and did things that you wouldn't expect from them even in the worst of shows in the actual series. The only one that was at all consistant with character was Data. Is it just me, or did Picard seem to flip-flop a lot, and NOT in a 'oh, geez, this is a hard choice' sort of way... a sort of arbitrariness in behavior, as if someone were flipping a coin to pick what he would do next? Some of the dialogue in general just made me wince as I watched... 5) The jokes... were kind of lame. I find it hard to believe that Picard would have THAT much trouble celebrating something in the nude when that was the custom of the people, among other things... On the other hand, given B-4's intelligence levels, I seriously doubt he would be considered 'working' even as he was in the movie, especially given that Dr. Soong was trying to make something along the lines of Data. The Romulans did NOT build him... they repaired him, maybe tweaked him into a functioning state, but they didn't build him. I have no beef with B-4. As for the buggy... if you believe the movies, they had personal hoverboots way back in the days of Kirk and Spock. Having to boot around in a buggy seems a bit... retro, and seems a deliberate 'action chase' plot device. This wasn't Star Trek spreading it's wings... it is Star Trek folding it's wings for a high speed nosedive. The only merit I see in the movie is as a straight-out action flick, where the story is secondary to action scenes (which were plenty). I would have preferred a more stable, solid story for a 'swan song'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavey1991 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Well.. lets see.. Riker fights a Reman on an imaginary deck 36 ( Picard says there are 22 decks in First Contact. ) then there is a huge chasm in the bottom of said deck, where the reman falls into it as if its a black hole. There's also the fact, that Picard knew beverly before she was born, the fact his acadamy uniform was different in the photo to how it was in other episodes + the fact he wasn't bald in the acadamy.. So.. where do i begin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDad Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 This is the reason it was made and it shows. It was a product of those who see Star Trek as a franchise opportunity rather than a story opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jounin Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Whatever, you guys are too picky. It was not the greatest trek movie I've seen, but I liked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 It really depends on how much of Star Trek you've seen. I mean by the time i had seen Nemesis i had only seen small sections of TNG - i never really got to know the characters before Data died - i saw the end before i saw the beginning.... :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjfoster Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 While I don't think that Nemesis was the worst ST movie (3 wins that contest, or maybe 5 for sheer silliness), it certainly lacked something. The bit with the Argo was a bit silly, and almost certainly broke the prime directive, but ok I'll accept that it was needed to build up the plot. The next section between Picard and Shinzon was ok, but dragged on a bit. Then the action/battle scenes at the end were quite good. I think that the main thing that it was missing was a strong lead character. In STII:The Wrath of Kahn, even though Kirk is blindsided by Kahn, he still remains a strong lead character. In this film, Picard loses that strength (see scene where he just stops after killing Shinzon), and so does the film. Even in St3, Kirk doesn't lose his strength, and he loses his son, not just a random clone that inesplicably seems to have jumped from being the lowest of the low as an outcast on Remus to being Praetor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 The whole "Picard clone" thing did feel rather forced. Straight out of the bag of sci-fi cliches really. Plus - while it's obvious that he should resent Picard and might feel curiosity - you'd think that he'd have taken action as needed, not played with his food. For someone supposedly so hardened by a life of brutality, he acted far too capriciously. The Remans were a rather pointless aside - it seemed like it was (yawn) another "let my people go" type issue, with the exclusive purpose of making Shinzon more sympathetic. As pointed out though, all it did was make this seem all the more preposterous. While I can certainly see the Romulan military wanting to get rid of a senate that didn't support its agenda, the notion of them letting a bunch of slaves and a failed clone take over is nonsensical. A double-cross? That would have been very Romulan. Let Shinzon wipe out the senate and then kill him, that I can see but letting him become Praetor was just rather silly. And honestly... I think that dune buggy was just a concession to the big ol' lack of action in the film as a whole. I mean, we had what... that, Picard escaping the Schimitar and the fight at the end. Just a lot of pacing problems really and I think I'd go beyond saying that it seemed the rest of the universe was uninvolved - this film was very much Data/Picard orientated. Things like the wedding and Troi being psychically raped (again) felt almost like after thoughts. It was long and drawn out and never really reached any kind of climax for me and no climax means no satisfaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ressurrector Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 I never hated nemesis and love the action scenes but thought the story could have been alot better. And sorta fell into the cookie cutter mold we seen in some of the last trek movies. 1.Maniac in a ship that can fire while cloaked. Undiscovered country?? 2.The whole B-4 thing I felt was just a cheap attempt to have a way to cover their back for SPOILER ALERT!! Data's demise and B-4 which like the other guy said had no way of tying together with Lore. 3.The offical screen debut of the sovereign enterprise only to be crippled and almost destroyed by the Schimitar (but hey it could fire while cloaked. hehe I doubt a borg cube could deal with that for long.) Would have been cooler if shinzon would have fought them with scimitar earlier in movie and they had a remade enterprise-d galaxy class and he destoryed that but the crew escapes to return later with sovereign enterprise and kick his ass!!!. With or without romulan aid. Overall not a bad film. But nothing really original other then the whole clone thing and the weopon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavey1991 Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 Okay, 'cause we've all said how bad the film was.. lets come up with some better ideas.. What would of happened if i'd rote Nemesis : - Picard should of been killed, Shinzon should be made his full strength, gone after earth as normal, ready for genocide, and creating a huge war ( War not over at end of movie ) . Romulans are likely to join the federation, and Remans just begin the Reman empire. - A now pissed off Captain Riker takes command of the enterprise. - Data shouldn't have died, but should of been made Riker's first officer. - Most of the other Senior Crew would of done their career choices. Then we could of had a new series on the Ent-E, with Riker as Captain, during a big 7 Season war. Anyone have any problems with that? ... I have an urge to write fan-fiction now... Stay tuned! XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavey1991 Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 Okay, 'cause we've all said how bad the film was.. lets come up with some better ideas.. What would of happened if i'd rote Nemesis : - Picard should of been killed, Shinzon should be made his full strength, gone after earth as normal, ready for genocide, and creating a huge war ( War not over at end of movie ) . Romulans are likely to join the federation, and Remans just begin the Reman empire. - A now pissed off Captain Riker takes command of the enterprise. - Data shouldn't have died, but should of been made Riker's first officer. - Most of the other Senior Crew would of done their career choices. Then we could of had a new series on the Ent-E, with Riker as Captain, during a big 7 Season war. Anyone have any problems with that? ... I have an urge to write fan-fiction now... Stay tuned! XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjfoster Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 Okay, 'cause we've all said how bad the film was.. lets come up with some better ideas.. What would of happened if i'd rote Nemesis : - Picard should of been killed, Shinzon should be made his full strength, gone after earth as normal, ready for genocide, and creating a huge war ( War not over at end of movie ) . Romulans are likely to join the federation, and Remans just begin the Reman empire. - A now pissed off Captain Riker takes command of the enterprise. - Data shouldn't have died, but should of been made Riker's first officer. - Most of the other Senior Crew would of done their career choices. Then we could of had a new series on the Ent-E, with Riker as Captain, during a big 7 Season war. Anyone have any problems with that? ... I have an urge to write fan-fiction now... Stay tuned! XD You just want another war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjfoster Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 And Picard/Patrick Stewart was made TNG great. Typical Yorkshireman -goes in, gets the job done and is particularly bloody good at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ressurrector Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 And Picard/Patrick Stewart was made TNG great. Typical Yorkshireman -goes in' date=' gets the job done and is particularly bloody good at it.[/quote'] I agree. he basically made that show hiself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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