Symok Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 im not so sure that the dominion would won because in the middle of the dominion war then the federation designed combat vessals like the soverign class. I've seen this mentioned once or twice before... Star Trek: First Contact was done in 1996, which is mid season 5. Tensions with the dominion are certainly mounting, but it is hardly the "middle of the war". I also don't remember hearing it mentioned anywhere that the Sovereign class is a combat class... If it were, you'd think that Starfleet would have wanted the Enterprise E to help out against the borg regardless of their worries about Picard... I agree with the others who said the Dominion. Without the alliance and the Prophets keeping the Dominion from getting reinforcements, the Dominion would have overwhelmed any ONE of the other powers in the Alpha Quadrant easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Dominion - remove the deus ex machina and they're going to steam roll the Alpha Quadrant. They've got the technology, the resources and most importantly - the will to power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arktis Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 I protest this topic and everything it stands for. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paniq Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Dominion. The writers making the Federation win everything, and being non-aggressive most of the time in a utopian world made viewers dwindle. The time is right for a dirtier series. ST:Dominion :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arktis Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Yup, I agree that the Dominion would win any day if it weren't for wacky plot devices. I disagree on your point that utopian ideals made viewers dwindle. That was what the success of TOS and TNG was based on. The viewership only started to dwindle with the last three series, which suffered from continually corrupted morality and poor writing/acting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raven3x7 Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 My vote goes to the Borg. That should have been an option. Hmm I never considered the ST universe utopian, more like sterilized but thats just me probably. What made viewers dwindle imo were the plot holes and bad writing in the latter shows. ST always had plot holes here and there but latelly it really went overboard. Also they did the deus ex machina to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Bah, you can't really include the Borg - they're too much of an uber race. Given a lack of scriptwriters to bail those crazy starfleet boys and girls out, they'd just blow them away. The Borg and Species 8472 are pretty much a whole other league to the Federation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazer Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 I vote the Federation but only just over the Dominion. It all depends on how a war is fought, rarely is it an even fight with the greater numbers winning. Eg WWII Germany were easily outnumbered by the allies of France and GB but they had much better tactics and took out the French Army of the same size in a matter of weeks. The Dominion has several weaknesses which were exposed during the war in DS9 there ships aren't very powerful and could only win when they had Breen weapons and effective cloaking. The other is the supply of Ketracel Whitewhich can easily be blocked leaving you with rebellious Jem'Hadar. They do have the advantage of being able to recover large numbers but as the Russians found out early in WWII numbers aren't everything. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 yeah i don't think Dominion Ships are strong but i think the idea is that they can make many ships very quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetsuoShima Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Don't forget that in the beginning the Dominion ships were a lot stronger than the Federation ships. The fact that the Federation could come up with a good 'defence and offence' against those ships (event hough it isn't specifically mentioned how they did it, just they researched blabla) on such short notice, is just another deus ex machina imo. It's like A invents the atomic bomb and half a year later B invents a ranged automatic atomic bomb defuser or whatever. Also, the Borg are not an option, since they are not in the poll. I do believe there was a poll/topic about the Borg <-> the Dominion a while ago. I'm not sure who won in the end, but I 'voted' Borg at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Yeah, the Dominion suffered from the classic Trek "nerf syndrome". They start out with ships that were pretty powerful for their size and managed to rip a Galaxy class ship to shreds in minutes... and naturally, we shouldn't forget the massacre of "the die is cast". After that, by Sacrifice of Angels - they had (as TetsuoShima says) magically managed to develop massive immunity to Dominion weapons. Of course, the Defiant was about the same size as the Jem'Hadar ships but could obviously take about 100 times more damage and deal out about 100 times more. In a similiar situation, the Jem'Hadar would have lasted about 3 minutes in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazer Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 When did Sisko capture that Jem'Hadar ship they would have learnt heap from that. Most wars produce massive innovation when one side gains an advantage. Ie the Germans had no idea how to defeat the first tanks in WWI and were lucky to develop countermesures in time mostly because the allies weren't able to fully use their potential. I agree about sometime "all powerful' enemies in trek are too easily defeated however as genetically bred warriors Jem'Hadar are not known for their innovation. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Tanks weren't exactly pivotal in WWI. Plus, it's strongly implied that a large number of ships from the Alpha Quadrant were captured/destroyed by the Dominion. Also, what are your grounds for saying the Jem'Hadar weren't innovative? Sure they weren't scientists but then, that wasn't their function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Data Posted August 25, 2006 Author Share Posted August 25, 2006 the tanks under WWI was only used sometimes and each time they used them they allways broke down each 10 min. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Please for the love of the gods, learn to write properly. Anyway, as I've always said - the season 7 opener of DS9 establishes quite clearly that the Prophets were the pivotal factor in the war against the Dominion. Even the combined forces of the Federation, Klingons and Romulans were taking a pasting against them until that darned Sisko went and let the Prophets out of the wormhole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Another factor to be considered - the crew I mean a specific episode i can think of is in DS9 season 7 near the end where Kira, Garek, Damar, Odo and someone else managed to steal a Jem Hadar Ship right out of a Dominion Space Dock and take it back to Federation Space so they could find a defence against the Breen Weapon. I mean i don't think there was a single security check conducted. There are other examples of this - like in the last episode Kira and her gang managed to get inside Dominion Headquarters and stop the war.... And i think the Defiant has won more battles than the Federation fleet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nireves1 Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 Why is the borg not in this poll!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFMF Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 As Tenebrae said - the Borg are too much of an Uber race - i think the races we have in the poll are good - Borg would dominate all if it weren't for those writer.... :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted August 28, 2006 Share Posted August 28, 2006 Yes, copied and revised cybermen really DO kick butt, don't they? ;) (would change vote to Borg, but frankly still thinks the Federation would win because Star Trek is entirely script writer created, and the script writers will always have the Federation win.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nireves1 Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 The viewership only started to dwindle with the last three series, which suffered from continually corrupted morality and poor writing/acting. hear hear!! bring the old startrek back!! altough i like the first i have seen from enterprise season 3 way better than seasons 1 and 2 anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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