Last season of Enterprise?

[VonHelton]

The Harry Kim career stagnation talk is right. Harry should have been promoted to LtJG by the end of the series. Janeway was right when she said that she needed him where he was' date=' but did he have to stay an ensign for so long?[/quote']

 

Would you have an ensign on the "Senior officer staff" in the first place??

 

Would you have an ensign in command of the whole ship on 3rd shift??

 

.......I think his remaining an ensign was a goof........A mistake.

 

:stare:

[feluxe]

I agree, kim should've been promoted! :thinking:

[Centurion]

Poor Kim... Can't have a normal girlfriend, no promotion. :D

[feluxe]

Topic was:

Re: Last season of Enterprise?

So what do you think, which season is better enterprise 3 or 4?

[Ulysses]

Topic was:

Re: Last season of Enterprise?

So what do you think, which season is better enterprise 3 or 4?

 

season 3, 4 was pants in my view, only good thing was the xindi arc the rest of ENT was pants

[feluxe]

so you like season 1 and 2 better than 3 and 4?

[Tenebrae]

The Xindi arc wasn't that great... it was really just the last few episodes of season 3 and really, the Xindi were such a bunch of squabbling idiots that they weren't really a particularly intimidating enemy. Not to mention the whole fact they managed to get along by the end. Also, did I mention the Xindi are the most idiotic race ever? You're building your giant secret superweapon to ensure that you can take out your enemy... so, how do you test it? Well, you take a prototype, fly it straight to the heart of your enemy's territory and pretty much give away the fact you're intent on destroying them.

 

Season 4 was pretty hit and miss with the story arcs... The Augments? Great. The Vulcan mini-arc? Mediocre... The Klingon virus and Nazi time travel? Horrible. Terra Prime? Good. Finale? AIDS.

 

I suppose that the occasional good episodes in 3 and 4 made a nice change from the generally bland and boring episodes in seasons 1 and 2.

[Ulysses]

I suppose that the occasional good episodes in 3 and 4 made a nice change from the generally bland and boring episodes in seasons 1 and 2.

 

I actually think the boring season 1 & 2 are what actually killed the show, by the end of season 2 I was really going off the show, Like ive said many times Enterprise was one to many trek shows.

 

In general Tenebrae comments are mostly true about ENT.  I think what should of happened after the end of Voyager is Paramount to give ST a rest instead of making what I think was the biggest mistake in trek history, in time ENT will be always remembered as being a massive failure.

[Mav]

I think Enterprise was both a failure and a success. Strange eh?

 

Seasons 1 and 2 had great moments, and really bad moments. Watching humans venture out as Starfleet in Warp 5 ship was great. Watching Trip get "pregnant" was not so great.

 

Basically seasons 1 and 2 were very hit and miss. I think however Seasons 3 and 4 were...even further strange.

 

Season 3 was very politically charged. Enterprise premiered shortly after the events of 9/11, by the time season 3 came out the "War on Terrorism" was in swing, so hey they write in an alien attack on Earth ;\

 

Season 4 was far better than season 3. I chalk this up to Manny Coto taking the helm so to speak, rather than Berman or Braga doing most of it. There were some real gems in season 4. Great stuff.

 

Honestly, I think if they hadn't of done a Pre-Kirk Enterprise it would have been better. Look at it this way, if the first major warp based Starfleet ship wasn't the "Enterprise" and it wasn't all hyped up as "Before Kirk there was..." it probably would have done better. That way, the character of Archer wouldn't be measured up nearly as much to the character of Kirk, nor would we have some preconceived notions of what the starship "Enterprise" should be like in the 22nd Century.

 

If they had named it as a different ship and just left it as the first major Starfleet vessel, it wouldn't be so bad. I also think for Season 3, they should have went with an alien race we knew of from one of the other series. The Xindi were kinda cool in their own right, but completely inventing species that have never been mentioned in other series as a major "villain" was a waste of a season+

 

Just the little things like that could have made it better. I also think the ratings were still good enough for another season easily. Sure they only had around 2 million viewers by the end of season 4 but even that's in the 2.0 Nielson range which is easily good enough for a prime time show, look at all the other shows networks have kept on with similar ratings. I just think UPN was a bad choice for airing it. While Paramount owns the UPN network, they were more geared towards "urban" shows, a completely different demographic than what Star Trek usually draws in.

 

Paramound should have cut a deal with NBC, to air it on NBC and rerun it on SciFi much earlier than they started with this year. That might have helped them some.

[Ulysses]

To be honest a country the size of the USA only managing 2 million viewers is really bad, when you consider shows like Dr Who which was pulling in viewers between 5 - 9 million in a country that only has 60 odd million population shows how badly ENT did.

 

Accepted that the BBC is available to the whole country and that it was put on at prime time on a saturday evening, but just shows the lack of planning in paramount which leads me to think the following :-

 

a) paramount where not really behind this show in the first place

 

b) the lack of marketing of the show/bad planning of when and where it was being shown

 

c) lack of ideas, rushed scripts and poorly thought out stories (basically ENT was a remake of the orginal Star Trek with its 5 year mission), which also leads me to think that running a show over 20 odd episodes per season is a mistake, I would far better prefer 12 better episodes than 20 odd episodes with afew good ones and alot of bad ones.

 

d) failure to evolve the show (new shows like BSG comeing out with a totally new formula to present sci-fi to the public)

[Mav]

 

c) lack of ideas, rushed scripts and poorly thought out stories (basically ENT was a remake of the orginal Star Trek with its 5 year mission), which also leads me to think that running a show over 20 odd episodes per season is a mistake, I would far better prefer 12 better episodes than 20 odd episodes with afew good ones and alot of bad ones.

 

d) failure to evolve the show (new shows like BSG comeing out with a totally new formula to present sci-fi to the public)

 

I disagree with these two points.

 

While some series are good at 12 or 13 episodes, content wise as a viewer we generally want more. Look at Doctor Who, or the Sopranos. Both are 12/13 episodes long right? DW is around 45 minutes of content, Sopranos around 50ish. Now while both shows have plenty of viewers, they also could have many more. Why? lack of content. If you look at the average network show (something on NBC, CBS, ABC, etc) that is a 1-hour show (aka 44 minutes content, 16 minutes commercials) which runs over 20 episodes a season, they have more content for their time spent than the 13 episode shows.

 

So while you may eliminate a few "bad" episodes in the smaller show formula you also risk alienating some viewers just cause, honestly 13 episodes is a "tease". Every year since I started watching Doctor Who for example, it goes by too quickly. No reruns some weeks, just 13 episodes back to back (just over 3 months of content) and it's over. You are left craving more content. You must then wait 9 more months for a new season (not counting the 1 hour Christmas specials).  Same thing with Enterprise. If we had 13 episodes, we'd want more. Especially since it's more sought after science fiction (aka people love Star Trek).

 

As for evolving the show, this one is harder to wrap your head around. While I agree the 5th series of Trek shouldn't have been a prequel style show, it also had a lot of room to work without needing to evolve. Case in point, Ent ended in what, 2005? BSG was barely into it's 2nd season by then. Ent started in 01', not a lot of scifi shows were still going back then or starting out that broke new ground. SG-Atlantis came a few years later, with a fresh updated take on the SG universe, iirc Farscape wasn't going on much longer by that point, stuff like 4400 and Heroes were just a gling in their writer's eyes. At the time, Enterprise was doing just fine as being Enterprise. It didn't need to evolve to compete cause there wasn't a lot at the time (in 2001) that was ground breaking or fresh to the science fiction genre of tv.

[Ulysses]

lol Mav nice reply mate...

 

however, ENT was like I said in my orginal post the same as TOS, TNG, Voyager in many ways but just with a different cast, I dont think it would of mattered if it been a prequel or something different after over a decade of star trek people where starting to get bored with the same old trek formula (about the only ones that didnt where die hard fans of the series).

 

Look at Ronald D Moore when he left, he decided to make a show which was not really like anything else and making it alot more dramatic, by doing so the show got alot more attention than Ent.

 

Out of all the ex-trek producers/writers RDM has proven he has the ability in evolving sci-fi, sadly the creators/writers and producers of ENT didnt and they paid the price is over using the same formula.

 

Dont get me wrong I still watched ENT but I cant say I was gripped by it in the same way as other show like TNG, DS9, VOY, BSG or DW.

 

Right at the begining of season 1 with the opening titles I always recall thinking "oh nooo this does not feel right"

[Tenebrae]

Actually, an hour show is a lot more like 40 minutes of content now.

 

I'd agree that seasons 1/2 probably effectively destroyed any chance of Enterprise making 7 seasons. I'm not really sure I can say much good about seasons 1/2 - they HAD the chance to show humans taking their first real steps into space, establishing themselves... giving us an idea about how the Star Trek universe actually worked.

 

They made so many errors - typical Star Trek errors... mostly concentrating on aliens/spacial anomaly of the week - rather than building characters or plots or such. Season 4 improved with mini-arcs... season 3... as I said, I felt it was a bit of a cop out and really the thinly veiled allusions to the war on terror were unbecoming... of course, TOS had its own Cold War pastiches but never quite so transparently and persistently. Of course, that said - if the enemies of the West are as much of a kack handed bunch of squabbling bunglers as the Xindi... we're probably safe.

 

Season 3 was really a nail in the coffin, I think. Seasons 1+2 were piss poor.

[Mav]

Ya know what woulda been cool? Reverse the order of seasons.

 

Make Ent Season 4, basically Season 1. You'd have to take out any stuff with Shran to avoid continuity, but imagine this; humans first steps into space, thrust them into these mini arcs of "holy sh!t". They go through the stuff with the Augments, the Klingons, etc the one-shot episodes fit in amazingly, including the Transporter episode.

 

Of course you don't even bother including season 3, at all. Or any mention of Xindi.

 

The only difference is at the end of the season, remove Trip dying obviously. And remove the 6 year gap, so at the end of a year or two, they begin the Federation, then you have seasons 2-whatever showing them taking their first steps even further, as they were supposed to do. You could include some great "season 1 and 2" episodes such as "Minefield" or "Dead Stop" to further the storyline of first contacts and such.

 

 

[feluxe]

Right at the begining of season 1 with the opening titles I always recall thinking "oh nooo this does not feel right"

I hate the opening title its the worst off all trek series. if i didn't know the series and would see the intro i wouldn't think that it was star trek. the song is terrible, too.

 

I'm watching season 4 right now and i think its getting better every season. It was great to see brent spiner again :D

[Chiggy]

Shame you havent got faith of the heart guys! I actually like the theme tune, as it made a change from orchestra jobs which have been done to death. The theme in my opinion represents the optimistic attitude of what Star Trek is all about, sorry you dont agree. What I dont like is the closing credit theme.........there's a cliff hanger at the end of the episode and your hit with a theme worse than Buck Rogers!

 

In my opinion any season of Enterprise beats the last season of Battlestar. Theres just so much interesting stuff going on, it can never be described as boring viewing. I find the new format of Sc-Fi involving lovers triangles and family arguments totaly boring and not at all Sc-Fi. I dont watch soap operas for a reason simply because they are mindless drivel.

 

If there are only 2 million US Star Trek fans then shame on everyone else who calls themselves a Star Trek fan and didnt tune in.  Shows are like football teams, if one is seen to be failing many 'glory hunter' fans switch sides whilst only the truly dedicated fans stick with it to the end.

 

In the UK our problem was that the show was being aired by a new channel that had presenters who didnt know any better, taking the piss out of it when they introduced it. You could tell the presenters werent fans, those dedicated followers of of the masses........more glory hunters.....which sadly is the majority of the public in the UK.

 

Getting back to the thread Season 4 has Bent Spiner for 3 whole episodes............how can you not like that!?!

[Ulysses]

If there are only 2 million US Star Trek fans then shame on everyone else who calls themselves a Star Trek fan and didnt tune in.  Shows are like football teams, if one is seen to be failing many 'glory hunter' fans switch sides whilst only the truly dedicated fans stick with it to the end.

 

lol funny thing is I will always follow my football team as its my local team and have alot more loyalty towards it, as for being a dedicated fan I am until they twist and change the show so its no longer the same show or if they have re-hashed the show and just given us the same basic story but wrapped in a different cover which ENT was, there is a difference between being a fan and being obsessed with a show regardless if its good or just plaining naff

[feluxe]

I like enterprise. But not as much as tng or tos or ds9. Brent Spiner is indeed great appearing in enterprise :)

[Chiggy]

There are other great moments of Season 4...........mirror universe episodes are yet another. I was speaking with a fan the other day and those episodes were his favourite from any series.

 

Enterprise was slow to get started........but so was B5.

 

In various documentaries that have been made concerning the 60th Anniversary it is in fact DS9 that is pointed too as partly to do with the first initial decline. Many thought that DS9 did not have the intelligence of TNG.......so it is really from this point that the fanchise was starting to lose its popularity.

 

To be honest the people who slag Enterprise off are generally the ones who havent seen all the episodes......so in my mind their opinion is not one to be considered valuable. Everyone was so quick to judge.

 

[Ulysses]

There are other great moments of Season 4...........mirror universe episodes are yet another. I was speaking with a fan the other day and those episodes were his favourite from any series.

 

Enterprise was slow to get started........but so was B5.

 

In various documentaries that have been made concerning the 60th Anniversary it is in fact DS9 that is pointed too as partly to do with the first initial decline. Many thought that DS9 did not have the intelligence of TNG.......so it is really from this point that the fanchise was starting to lose its popularity.

 

To be honest the people who slag Enterprise off are generally the ones who havent seen all the episodes......so in my mind their opinion is not one to be considered valuable. Everyone was so quick to judge.

 

 

Well I watched it all and still thought the show was poor, you mention about the mirror universe, now how many times has this theme been used, far more than I can recall.

 

Oh yeah I remember the 60th Anniversary, they actually made one of the more memorable episodes in DS9, Trail & Tribulations.  I actually think that the ones that dont like ENT tend to be us that are 30 plus and the ones that do like it being the younger fans..but thats just my view lol