Star Trek - Fight or Flight

[hayden]

....

 

In recent years i have noticed a rapid decline of the Star Trek franchise. Yes i know the new film is coming out which i can't wait for, but alot is rested firmly on the shoulders of the outcome of this film. But this is not what i am referring to, i am, however, referring to Star Trek as a television series. I thought Enterprise was going to get the franchise back on track, it had so much potential, but due to poor ratings, off a system which hardly works, the show was lobotomized and thrown out to the wolves with an ending that gives 'Bold and the Beautiful' a fighting chance in the golden globes.

To the point, will J.J. Abrams be able to pull the Star Trek Franchise out of the unbelievably spectacular rut in is so firmly situated in at the moment.

 

This brings me to my stance of flight or flight, if Abrams is not able to pull Star Trek from its current position this will most defiantly be the end of the greatest scifi series ever conceived. However if the film does draw in a new generation of Trek fans i have the canny feeling that a fresh string of Trek episodes will be produced and if maintained will stage a come back of Goliath proportions for the Star Trek franchise.

 

Will J.J. Abrams be able to save the franchise or will this be the end of show which i hold so dear along with many others.

 

 

Hayden

[Chiggy]

As Ive said before the idea of bringing on a new fan base to begin with is ill concieved. If Star Trek is to be remade then attention must be drawn back to the early days of TNG and into bringing all the original fans back. Only then will Star Trek be great again.

 

Re-hire all the two technical researchers who worked on TNG and show a few familiar from TNG, DS9 or Voyager. I havent got a clue what the new series would consist of, I dont think most fans have. Maybe the Federation now uses another drive technology which allows them to explore even further in space or perhaps a new step in evolution for the Federation?

[Tenebrae]

Ah, the tireless epithet now seems to be - WHERE should the new show happen? Maybe the beta quadrant or another galaxy etc. Quite how the locale of a show can be considered the most important aspect really just goes to show the wrong headedness of the approach of fans and producers after TNG.

 

I fail to see how Enterprise was really ever going to be a salvation... it's a matter of public record that it pretty much alienated half the Trek hardcore from the get go and then put off a lot more - and the casual viewer - by having two seasons that were (even by the standards of previous Trek series) pretty piss poor. Sure, the Nielsen ratings system isn't exactly the most amazing way to monitor viewership but I think it's fair to say that with Brannon and Braga at the helm, the show was going to be still born.

 

In much the same way, I'm not entirely sure how going back to the Kirk era, bending it over a table and raping continuity, injecting hip and sexy teen ethos etc. etc. is going to be anymore of a step forward than Enterprise was.

 

I suppose that they might just go "Oh, it's an alternate timeline" or something to get fans off their backs... so, then they're basically just doing a reboot. Not that a reboot would be a bad thing but making it time travel... eh. Just seems like an excuse to rehash the same idea again but YOUNGER AND EDGIER (see the 200th episode of SG-1 for an idea of how cringeworth it might be).

 

Of course, a reboot could work... but only if Star Trek actually had some sense of vision beyond a bunch of writers all going off to their separate corners every week and coming up with something that pisses all over the continuity from last week... oh and maybe a galaxy that didn't have aliens on EVERY planet, spacial anomalies every five space miles and god-like entities coming out of every orifice. There seems precious little point in having a restart - again - if the sins of the past are ignored.

 

Anyway, while I find the notion that Star Trek is the greatest sci-fi franchise ever (Voyager alone pretty much takes the bottom out of that argument) laughable... it's certainly been broadly enjoyable and for the likes of Paramount - profitable.

 

In the event of the film failing to be a commercial success of any note, they'll likely shelf it again for a number of years until they come up with another half-baked idea for a relaunch.

 

In the event of the film being a box office hit - doubtless they'll get the cookie cutter out and make a new show.

[hayden]

Anyway, while I find the notion that Star Trek is the greatest sci-fi franchise ever (Voyager alone pretty much takes the bottom out of that argument) laughable...

 

What, every new sci-fi is practically a spin off of trek... same stories, same problems.. different people. I do rate stargate a whole lot better but if it wasn't for trek i seriously doubt sg1 would have spawned itself into existence.

I don't see them coming up with a new idea, like u said, they would just re-incarnate some old crap and throw time travel in and it would flake out quicker than enterprise.

 

I still wanna see some new trek but, and this new movie better go off haha.

[Tenebrae]

Uhuh, that's such an incredible flawed and blinkered view of sci-fi, I'll just move on.

 

All I can really do is reiterate my opinion that, the only reason to revisit the franchise is to attempt to do it right... but we all know there's a snowball in hells chance of it.

[Ulysses]

I seriously doubt that this new trek film will relaunch star trek, for star trek to be successful it has to attract not only the trek fans but also the non-trek fans, which in the last few years it hasn’t. 

 

Enterprise was a foolish attempt at keeping trek on TV for the sake of keeping it on TV, what they should of done is to finish voyager and then give the franchise a break for afew years (bearing in mind Star Trek TNG/DS9 and Voyager kept Trek on TV for many years).

 

Star Trek has been done to death, and maybe they over used this format, it was bound to happen that the viewers would start losing interest.

 

Look at BSG, as much as I love this show apart of me is glad that they are only doing 4 seasons then it wont face the same humiliation in being cancelled due to over using the format of the show.

 

The best thing for Trek is to leave it afew years then attempt bringing it back, but like what has already been said “as long as they do it right”, a good example of what has happened to trek is Dr Who, the BBC also over did this and ended up with a lengthly break, they then brought it back and its been very successful for the BBC (I think ive said this before afew months ago)

 

I had to laugh at the comment about stargate being better than Trek! You must be joking!!  But your right without trek I doubt that there would have been shows like stargate.

 

[Tenebrae]

Yeah, it by the time Voyager finished, it was getting toward 15 years... and while it was in 3 different shows - there was a lot of similarity...

 

Enterprise always struck me as borne of a conversation between Brannon Braga and Rick Berman as Voyager drew to a close...

 

RB: So... Voyager ends this year...

 

BB: Yeah, this ending is bound to piss people off!

 

RB: Yes, BB but what happens when Voyager finishes... sure, we've created the most irritating and inconsistent captain yet... had a bunch of episodes that blatantly ignored the rules of common sense and good writing and took every opportunity to wind up the fans... but what next?

 

BB: Uh... I dunno boss.

 

RB: Foolish BB... I have conceived of a diabolical plan to rape the very ROOTS of Star Trek and I call it ENTERPRISE!

 

 

I think the real problem with Star Trek is that it never really took any risks... Ok, DS9 wasn't QUITE the same (boldly staying in the same place) but in the final analysis, even it was only a minor variation on the theme... In fact, I think that if you watch Voyager, you can SEE the formula being refined to a matter of almost precise mathematical precision... they seemed to lose that a bit in Enterprise but even in the third season... it was still pretty much piecemeal until the final act of the Xindi war. It's not hard to see how Manny Cotto couldn't turn things around.

 

I agree with you on BSG... to be honest... I think it would have been better if RDM had come up with a more coherent idea of it from the start. Everyone - including him - agrees that the second half of season 2 flagged. The same thing happened in season 3.

 

Dr. Who is pretty much entirely different. It was a long running show, yes but it's demise was more to do with Greg Dyke - who had a deep seated dislike of the show and conspired to cut its budget and eventually cancel it. Though, it being off the air helped in some respects...

 

Stargate is BECOMING Star Trek. Jetting around in spaceships and such... the old days were better. Of course, at least you can't say Stargate takes itself as seriously.

[Chiggy]

Its like re-inventing the wheel.....it cannot be done. Thats why the film will flop.

 

I once had a crazy idea about a James Bond undercover operative based in the TNG universe. Sort of like Daniels with out the time travel but more like Star Fleet Intelligence. There would be great potential to write scripts around any alien race or discovery in the history of Star Trek. Stealth ships with experimental technology. Anything really to take the theme away from big ships discovering stuff. The pilot would be set on Romulas and follow Federation agents, basically start where Nemesis left off. BY having shows based on an alien planets we would learn more about different races and the technologies could be developed further which were only discussed briefly in other series.

[Tenebrae]

I'd agree with that... Trek is pretty much a case of, the more it changes, the more it stays the same.

 

I honestly think that people are just too scared to try and take it away from the Starfleet vessel, flying around meeting the alien or spacial anomaly of the week. Which is what led to stagnation... But then, at the same time I think that if you don't have people flying around then a lot of Trek fans would probably be turned off... after all, what's the point in being able to fly around space if you don't?

[dr_strekge]

Tenebrae wrote:

In much the same way, I'm not entirely sure how going back to the Kirk era, bending it over a table and raping continuity, injecting hip and sexy teen ethos etc. etc. is going to be anymore of a step forward than Enterprise was.

 

I agree, what they would imagine next? swimsuits and commercials of the 50s and kirk traveling to stop  WW2 ! . I accept the new fresh faces and young talents, but is not a movie of that nerd super spy, that one, called Collin Powells, is Star Trek or wut? your mesage is fiction=stupidity for stupids :?:(a bit insulting because it's not a comedy series but sci-fi with some moderated humour)

 

Another thing is Andromeda, nobody says nothing about it, maybe because it's perfection, the omega stabilized to the star trek universe,  :D  they did it well, I liked the new collective helping and assembling a new warship and protecting andromeda. Star trek has potential, how about first contact of even a second contact tv-series to start?.

 

Maybe promoting  local festivals of star trek writers contest or short film festivals (including fan short tales or resumes of the main new ideas) could help to create some really new materials, even a european radio series could get some attention. As Riker said "use your big positronic brain Data". These is becoming urgent to the trek franchaise because that parasite greedy symbiot thing of TNGs1 has entered into the brains of star trek movies makers/writers, the Mel Gibson's hit-movie formula directive don't apply here for resurrecting Star Trek. We need to fuse the best of the best sci-fi space travel series, elements into a new trek "trilogy" or better: seven movies with a great story and in the seventh movie the great end. in other words we need other 7 seasons of ST, to have something to criticize  ;)

 

They made fredy vs. jason, why they can't make star trek meets  stargate aliens and fry them all. ;) That's the real issue, and only S.S. Andromeda in the trek alternate franchise universe overcame it. 

[Tenebrae]

You've yet to write a post that I can read through and decide upon the meaning of, old chap.

 

Andromeda isn't talked about because most people just laughed at Hercules in space and then switched off.

[dr_strekge]

Hey yIDoghQo' man!, the world is big enough! so this forum,  maybe you laughed that's what you mean, don't you?. But here was the contrary I was laughing of wimp Hercules american-tv stereotype and yes I was switching it off always. Capt. Hunt was different sort kind of Flash Gordon or Buck Rogers series in the 90's.

 

In any case I would never tell anyone or imply in my posts "you must read this and understand every damn word of it": some ppl read it, some don't, some understand it better some less but that's ok to me. If I would want to write to one person, why would I need to enter to a forum like this? You are being 'e-logical' Tenebrae  :cyclops: 

 

Long life to the Drago Kattza!  :)

 

( I like other stereotypes of anglosaxon characters Thor from Marvel comics is one of them :D) OOODINN!!! #$%&/()!!! PrOwWl!!!!  ;) hes more like a god considering it's only a comic book also Jhonny Blaze/Ghost Rider :)  I would like to see a movie of Thor! but not a wimp in blue pants like new superman, they filmakers  made that each time more wimp stereotypes because of the weakening of the race over the ages. but manhood to man is never outdated like 13 warriors, that was a good movie too.

 

(but zi-ndi "sharonas" who foolish tv and the media and anglosaxon countries promote into them all gay and degeneration to empower over them so you have "beliar" and "bullsh" constantly giving blowjobs to the "zi-ndi" leaders and believing they are something as nations, shame of shames to the noble arian-nordic trunk of their common ancestors,  the hammer of Thor is missed for that parias) I don't like to talk this way about it, but don't tell me a wimp stereotyped hercules has to ruin a good sci-fi series.

 

 

 

[Chiggy]

Thor Vs Conan that was a great comic................but anyway I think Hercules in space is a dumn idea what will they think of next. Zena the clone in space? That'll never catch on.

[dr_strekge]

Yes I see your point Chiggy, (I read that comic once and other of conan in this century :).....) but in my point of view of that tv series timeline  that doesn't matter because I never liked that Hercules in the first place. However I enjoyed andromeda's modern space sci-fi concept, okudagrams, variety and other special fx's. I never liked those stupid "futuristic" controls of ST-TOS and sirens and objects from a ferret store, nothing futuristic and the worst inside the vessel, that sucks and nothing is gonna change it let's face it! :p. That's why I consider myself mostly a trekker without a doubt. I would prefer a mute film of the 30's than that. Sorry if some us and maybe uk fans flamed Hercules for appearing in space but, hey where they do that thing with Mel Gibson? he's is in every movie also! :),  so many ppl were also (from the rest of the world) who disliked exactly in that same way that Hercules, but liked Captain Hunt character.

 

And about that thing of TOS I don't precisely want to see another trek movie with non futuristic objects around the vessel (bad taste in my opinion).  It was funny to watch Sisko and Dax helping Kirk and the turbo lift joke of bashir and o'brian, but that's one thing, the other is to disgustingly mantain  the classic trek unchanged or without a re-evolution forever, something like "birdman" cartoon is going to happen to star trek someday, if they never leave that crap alone  to the sake of good but gone times of the beginnings of StarTtrek. this is a new century just leave it, so it can rest in peace meanwhile  a new reborn is prepared. ::) 

[HEAT84]

The pilot would be set on Romulas and follow Federation agents, basically start where Nemesis left off. BY having shows based on an alien planets we would learn more about different races and the technologies could be developed further which were only discussed briefly in other series.

 

A Start Trek series from a non-Starfleet perspective. That would be awesome.  How about Star Trek: Romulus?

 

 

And how about letting fans do the writing? That could work couldn't it? It couldn't be worse than ENT.

[Chiggy]

I was thinking along the lines of a special intelligece branch of the Federation. A whole department with specialised skills. One episode on Romulas, the next on the Klingon homeworld, the next on Vulcan, another infilitrating the Borg, the next on Earth at Starfleet Command. The agents would have missions, stop an assassination, gather intel on new alien technology, survey a new world requesting to join the federation, stop a traitor from revealing federations secrets, stop a Romulan spy, solve a murder, stop a radical leader from taking over a planet, break a smuggling ring, infiltrate the marque, an episode on enterprise...........the plot lines are endless. We learn that these special agents are situated all over the Federation with mundane jobs until they are activated.

 

I know its sound cheesy, the 007 of Star Trek, but special agents are what the masses want. Just look at the popularity of Bond? The show would also serve to improve the shows street cred with a new slick designs and more gritty stories. There would be new technologies developed from Voyagers discoveries and minature more advanced versions of standard issue feredertion equipment. Uniforms which re-semble more like the black suit which Daniels wore in Enterprise, with grey trimmings. Small stealth ships with cloaks that can look like any other ship...I know thats been done.....i`m just brain storming.

 

The secret would be to add variety to the show (which Trek is famous for) and move the timeline along from Nemesis.

 

Yes I know this idea needs work but you have to admit its not as bad as re-inventing the lore or time travel for that matter.

[Tenebrae]

Somehow, I think grafting one cliché onto another isn't exactly going to bring the praise or crowds. For which reason I'd not cite Bond... I see where you're coming from and the idea is interesting but you probably want to parse it in different terms.

 

As to fan writing - I've mentioned it several times. Paramount DID accept fanscripts, they just mangled them beyond recognition and never acknowledged them... or at least, I read that somewhere...

[Chiggy]

I read that at the height of TNG they were recieving hundreds upon hundreds of scripts per week and they didnt bother to read 99 percent of them.........into file 13 they went! They cannot of all been total balls ups.

 

Bond I have to admit is a cliche as you have said and I do need to word the idea differently. I think you know what I mean, I wasnt thinking of cheesy one liners as a Federation spy kills 5 klingons by knocking them down into a lava pit. You never know someone at Paramount might read my idea, steal it and use it. I hope so! I`m told Nimoy likes Sc-Fi forums!

 

One plus is that we know Starfleet Intelligence exists and Tuvok was a member of that organisation. Its not a concept totally new that would screw around with the lore that is already in place.

 

Another downside of my idea would be the cost to produce, one great thing about having a show based on a Starship is that you can use the same set week after week. Then again what price can you put on getting a franchise rolling again? As Quark would say..."think of the merchandising"..... and the resale of the other older shows!

 

What do you think Tenebrae, should I sign up to startrek.com post the idea there and get laughed at?

[Tenebrae]

I can imagine most of them being pretty awful but for legal reasons, they couldn't use them... probably. What with the scripts being written by people who weren't part of the screen writers guild etc.

 

Oh, sure - we know there is Starfleet intelligence. It's mentioned plenty in the show, especially DS9. I think the problem with espionage in the 24th century is it's going to be a lot more technical and gadgety... beyond the infiltration that Chief O'Brien and Tuvok took part in.

 

I agree about the sets... That's how B5 managed to scrape along on about half the budget per episode of TNG... You could always go for an all CGI show... things have come a long way since Roughneck Chronicles... just look at Aurora Trek.

 

Posting it up, well... who knows.

[bbbb]

To resurrect Star Trek at this point is extremely difficult for pretty much all the reasons mentioned above. It was done continuously for nearly 20 years with really very little change at the top. Rick Berman ran the show for so long that he could not keep it fresh for that long. DS9 was a good show and surprisingly did boldy go while being based off of the space station.

 

Some say Voyager started out good and only fell apart as the show's top producers took a stranglehold on the show in season 3. Memory Alpha has an article on Micheal Piller and how he says that the show would have picked up in season 3 just as TNG did in season 3. He was unfortunately booted from the show and Voyager never picked up. I myself noticed a change in the show in say season 3 or 4. By season 5 it was apparent that the show had stagnated never picked up for the rest of the series. Every time I watch the show on reruns this is certainly the case.

 

Season 3 was different from season 1, 2 in more ways than one. The Kazon were no longer in the picture, which many felt (myself included) was good for the show. The Kazon were good to a point but could not develop any further than they did in 'Basics, part 1'. Season 3 brought some fresh air to the show, which was really good for the series in my opinion. I never liked Seven of Nine really, she was more interesting than Kes (who figured much less prominently as season 3 closed) but was a little too one-dimensional for my taste. The writers put so much time and effort on Seven only to produce a character that choked the show of any character development for the other characters. Then came Enterprise...

 

Can Star Trek bounce back? Not with another Nemesis that's for sure. I liked that movie but I understand completely why some would not like it and why it failed at the box office.

 

To be honest I am surprised that they are coming up with a new trek production so quickly. Star Trek is still on the air in reruns fairly often and the movies themselves are repeated often as one big marathon from 5am to midnight the next day. There's so much trek that some must be asking themselves, really what more is there to tell? I am concerned with the new movie's plot, with the recasting of all the TOS cast. The first captain of the Enterprise is known to be Captain April, who from what I've seen so far won't be in the movie. Even if Cristopher Pike is the captain of the famous ship then how do they intend to explain the drastic change in Spock's appearance from Quinto's Spock to Nimoy's Spock from 'The Cage'? His looks could not have changed that much in just ten or 15 years. Same with the other TOS characters. The new actor playing Sulu is actually older than George Takei was when he started on star trek back in the 60s. This poses a huge challenge for the new movie, even as a reboot. Even the task of linking Nimoy to young Spock will be challenging and bringing back William Shatner is a daunting task for this skilled production team led by J.J. Abrams. I'm sure he'll make the film great but whether it resonates well with fans is hard to tell until more about the new movie is known.

 

A new star trek must get back to the idea of space exploration and not big wars as we have seen plenty of that on tv for some time now. A new Trek must introduce new blood to the franchise both on and behind the scenes. A new ship reflecting current advances in technology as well as showing some new future technology not yet thought of will bring back audiences wowed by the little diskettes of TOS and the holodecks of TNG. With space being so big there is plenty of possible storylines to consider. Some new space phenomena not yet discovered perhaps? That would probably get the space scientists pondering. New technology would inspire the creation of similar technologies in the real world. A new Star Trek must present a bold new vision for the future, and as we all know, Roddenberry wanted the future to be optimistic and full of potential for ever greater progress and exploration of space and the human condition.

 

The human adventure is just beginning...