bbbb Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 After his second reprimand it was evident that Worf's starfleet career stalled. At the end of DS9 he left to become federation ambassador to the klingon homeworld. In 2002 Berman seemed to forget about this simple oddity and we found Worf serving aboard the Ent-E under Captain Picard. Now that he was no longer doing routine patrols aboard the Defiant, could his posting to the Ent-E be his chance at a rejuvenated starfleet career, one possibly leading to his own command sometime in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiggy Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Its very doubtful that we will see Worf again in Star Trek or anyone else from TNG for that matter......afterall Nemesis was the 'end of a journey', that film in my opinion didnt bring a seconds worth of conclusion to any of the characters. We were conned! The fact that Picard wanted Worf back on the Enterprise for the invasion is no surprise considering his previous experience with the Borg. Worf really enjoyed his time on Enterprise and he makes a point of letting everyone on DS9 know. When the message reached Worf he snatched Picards hand off. Worf could Captain his own Starship one day, perhaps when hes a little older. It seams the best Klingon captains of the Empire were the older ones. I dunno pure speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Yeah, Worf is kind of like the guy that left the party college (TNG) to go to a somewhat unfulfilling job (DS9) and was always looking for excuses to head back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Yeah, Worf is kind of like the guy that left the party college (TNG) to go to a somewhat unfulfilling job (DS9) and was always looking for excuses to head back. I wouldn't say his role in DS9 was unfulfilled seeing as he got to see battle commanding the defiant....surely any klingons wish to fight in a huge war! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 It's a superficial analogy. He kept running back to the Enterprise whenever they called... it was actually pretty funny that they didn't bother explaining it after First Contact... it's as if Worf somehow KNEW when something big was going to go down and just appeared on Enterprise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slug Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I think it damaged the credibility of those films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 To be honest, Nemesis and Insurrection managed to ruin their own credibility without crab head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiggy Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 After First Contact Worf should of made an offical transfer to the Enterprise. A scene explaining his lack of diplomatic skills and the fact that there is no honour in just talking would of made his appearance believable. The fact of the matter Worf is one of the most loved characters of TNG to make a film with out him would not of gone down very well with the fans. The problem was his return(s) were not executed very well. Tenebrae you are of course correct those films are pretty crappy. The fanchise became content that the fans would support any old rubbish...........if anyone wants to know how Star Trek can be rebooted simply look at The Motion Picture. It was bigger, better than dare I say Star Wars and revilitised the fanchise. I admit not as sucessful in regards box office returns but with out it there wouldnt of been The Next Generation. It took some balls to come up with a new Star Trek film after Star Wars. I think what those two films you mentioned lacked in was the feeling of discovery..............if someone can write a film that brings incredible discovery to an audience and executes it well that film will be a success. The Motion picture was the ultimate execution of discovery and Wrath of Khan was the discovery of the genesis device. Ladies, gentlemen the key word is discovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 To be honest, Worf being a diplomat didn't really make any sense... about the only thing that qualified him to be an Ambassador to the Klingon Empire is that he was a Klingon raised by humans and that he handed the leadership of the Empire to Martok... which probably scores you some points. Uh... Star Trek: The Motion Picture is one of the most boring, tedious and dull films ever to grace the silver screen. It may have been a financial success but it was a critical failure... and not just with me. Star Wars may have been derivative but at least it wasn't likely to induce a coma. I'd agree that discovery and exploration are really what Star Trek based itself around but I think that things have changed a lot since then. Hard to see how they can recapture that feeling with a time travel adventure, featuring the Romulans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiggy Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 I think if I am correct the Motion picture cost 42 Million to make when compared to Star Wars meager budget. Some people say that it was in fact Star Wars that triggered the return of Star Trek...........thanks to all things space like being so popular in the early 1970's to mid 1980's. I think that the Motion Picture made so much money because at the time no one had ever seen anything like it on the big screen. Not even Star Wars could live up to its effects, inside that gas cloud for example, it must of been amazing to watch on a big screen back then. For there to be a new successful Star Trek that 'awe factor' must be brought back to the franchise, to dare I say get the general publics interest. The big problem being that everyone is now so used to seeing amazing effects that this new Star Trek must be ground breaking in its appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 See, the problem with the whole shock and awe thing is... it's just very, very hard to do... and a lot of the time you're likely to make it - like The Motion Picture - dull or pretentious. TMP milked it a bit much, really. I think that you'd genuinely struggle to have a contemporary audience wowed by something like a giant space cloud these days... as many have observed, there isn't much "special" left in special effects these days. So... Awe... I just really think you'd struggle to do it. And yes, Star Wars run away success is pretty much what led to the mass of sci-fi in the late 70s/early 80s... much like Spiderman sparked a new round of superhero films... Hollywood loves a bandwagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbb Posted February 11, 2008 Author Share Posted February 11, 2008 Star Wars is a difficult film to surpass in my opinion. It was so so good. TMP brought star trek into the 1980s with better special effects and visuals. It was a somewhat boring film but I think we can say that it worked. That is it worked at bringing back star trek. To bring back star trek now would be difficult for the reasons you all mentioned above. It became old, stale and as has been said before on this site many times, rehashed. They rehashed the same thing over and over again for years and years. I felt Nemesis needed more work before release, Insurrection was a joke of a movie, a slap in the face to us loyal star trek fans all over the world. ENT had stretched itself so thin over four years that I'm sure some of Paramount's executive felt it was time to put ENT out of its misery. Then we watched Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith and all that amazing lightsaber action. That was good vodka to get over the loss of star trek. Now they intend to bring star trek back, and for all I know it will have a giant space cloud in it too. As for Worf, I thought that by returning to the Ent-E as he did in Nemesis might have meant a resurgence in his career, which really stagnated while he was at DS9. If Sisko thought he was that good, why not promote him or make him first officer of the station? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 DS9 was Bajoran... and for reasons that I can't quite remember, they let Starfleet run it... presumably because then the Cardassians would be less likely to come and steal it... hence Kira being the 1st officer. So, I don't think there was really a lot of prospect for advancement. If you're a career officer, you're moving around a lot. As Riker realises halfway through TNG... he'd lost the hunger because realistically, he'd have jumped at a command... Worf wouldn't have stayed on DS9... I guess moving back to the Enterprise was a good sign. Star Wars and Star Trek are fairly hard to compare... Star Wars has always been pretty basic, you've got some fairly straight forward good vs. evil situation on an epic scale and there will either be a giant space battle or a big land battle or a big sabre/force battle - or quite possibly, all three. Star Trek is more... up itself. Nemesis being a prime example of that - and to a lesser extent, Insurrection. They cut a LOT of stuff out of Nemesis... I think the unedited version ran... 2.5 hours? In which they had even more belaboured ponderings on the nature of time... the "predator" vs. the "old friend". That's the kind of pretentious stuff that turns people off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbb Posted February 12, 2008 Author Share Posted February 12, 2008 In a way Worf should have gone back to the Enterprise as soon as it launched in 2372. As for Nemesis being so long, it would have put fans asleep much faster. If I recall correctly when I saw the movie in theatre back in 2002 the theatre was not at all full and I was probably the youngest person in the room. It was very quiet during the film. Not much chatter, cheers or boos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Yeah, they were probably in a coma... I thought they even managed to make the final battle kind of subdued and lacklustre. They left out a bit of horseplay at the end, where Picard is settling into a (yet again) reconstructed Enterprise... which was fairly awful. I think you can find the out takes on Stage 6... I had the link but I seem to have lost it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloane31 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Just my opinion, and I am new to these parts, but I'm not entirely sure that Worf's career was stunted that much in the first place. Yes he got two repremands, but he served well on DS9 having moreorless total control over the USS Defiant. Having command over Starfleet's only official battleship is no small feat. And having served as the Chief of Security of the flagship, under Captain Picard, that will always give him kudos wherever he serves. Worf was always best in a security role. Sure he can command, he has very good authority in the field. But he is good with tactics, and this is where he should stay. If his career were to advance, I'd say it should either be some teaching role of security (although I doubt he would like this). The alternative would be to have a leadership role involving tactical, such as a command role in Starfleet Security/Intelligence. It's not as hands on as he likes but as a general the higher you go up the ranks the less hands on it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Oh, Sloane - I think we're all aware that... pretty much EVERYONE (even Harry Kim during one of his split personality moments) was pretty much courting career ending insubordination that - realistically - would lead to serving on patrols of... nothing important. Worf was good at tactics... but yes, I agree - not a commander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbb Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 Just my opinion, and I am new to these parts, but I'm not entirely sure that Worf's career was stunted that much in the first place. Yes he got two repremands, but he served well on DS9 having moreorless total control over the USS Defiant. Having command over Starfleet's only official battleship is no small feat. And having served as the Chief of Security of the flagship, under Captain Picard, that will always give him kudos wherever he serves. Worf was always best in a security role. Sure he can command, he has very good authority in the field. But he is good with tactics, and this is where he should stay. If his career were to advance, I'd say it should either be some teaching role of security (although I doubt he would like this). The alternative would be to have a leadership role involving tactical, such as a command role in Starfleet Security/Intelligence. It's not as hands on as he likes but as a general the higher you go up the ranks the less hands on it gets. I think you've made some very good points here Sloane31, with this in mind if I was the promotions fellow I'd give Worf just as much praise (and maybe a command to go with!). I think DS9 was a bad posting for him as he was constantly under the heel of Sisko. For as long as he was there he would continue to command the Defiant in place of Sisko. Perhaps he only got the reprimand because he decided to save his wife instead of accomplishing the mission. If Sisko had not put them on the same mission together things may have gone differently. It's what some call conflict of interest. When on a mission with one's wife one will choose his wife in the end. Perhaps this is only natural and to put husband and wife alone on the mission was a mistake. One could say that Sisko was at fault there for trusting them for a mission that sensitive. Naturally Worf was punished but if I were Sisko's CO I'd question his judgement too. Worf had a reprimand under both Picard and Sisko but I think Sisko took it worse than Picard did. Maybe under Picard he will continue to rise up the ranks under more sound leadership. For me it's all a question of leadership. Worf's leadership (or lack of it), Dax's leadership (for letting conflict of interest happen), Sisko's leadership (questionable command decisions) and Picard's leadership (what would he have done?). May I formally welcome you Sloane31 to this site and thank you for your input above. As a longtime member of Nite's site may I say that I think this is one of the better sites out there. I hope you find some good company here on our site. Have a good day all, Fleet Captain bbbb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloane31 Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Thank you for the warm welcome :) I would like to add something that I have only just thought of. Surely the fact he is Klingon would mean Worf's career could move forward. After all, he is the only Klingon in Starfleet, and he has become their "go to guy" somwhat on occasions where they have needed his expertise. This alone means he will always be valued and has chances to move up the career ladder once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxman95 Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 If memory serves more then once there was talk of promoting Worf on the enterprise. In the most toys when they believe data is dead Worf is promoted to head of ship ops and in best of both worlds when picard is gone Riker mentions making worf first officer but decides to keep him at tactical because no one could replace him there. Truth be told, he prob. became first officer on the enterprise after nemesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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