WAR: Vulcan vs Klingon - Who wins?

[TetsuoShima]

Well the premise is easy enough, Vulcans and Klingons, both are powerfull. However unlikely this may seem during certain erra's in the Star Trek timeline. Suppose it did come from it, who would win, why, when, .... If you think there are different outcomes for different centuries, feel free to state (and explain). If another scenario comes to mind, share. :)

 

 

(Been so long since the last vs topic, I couldn't resist)

[Ulysses]

The klingons naked aggression would over come the vulcans, the only way the vulcans could win a war  against them would be through technological breakthroughs

[Sloane31]

I have to agree with the above. While Vulcans cane be very good hand to hand fighters, Klingons have the edge. Vulcans may have better technology as a general but comparing ships also, the average Klingon ship has superior firepower.

[USWhoFan]

I'd tend to agree that the Klingon's would win, unless the Vulcan's had some sort of technological break through in weaponry.

[Tenebrae]

War isn't just about technology or numbers or strategy.

 

It's about the will to power.

 

That said - it's not really fair. The Klingons are an Empire and I think that you'd have to be pre-Enterprise for it to be a meaningful question...

 

People need to QUALIFY, these questions. Klingons were never going to be a REAL power for long, they - as DS9 explained - totally lucked into their technology... I suppose that makes Yesterday's Enterprise a little more unlikely... but then the Federation never did "real" war. Just jammin'.

 

In short, I can't vote on something which isn't quantified.

[bbbb]

I think this is a good question that made me think about the vulcans vs the klingons. It can be hard to say who would win. I'll have to reflect more on this before I give my usual thorough analysis and commentary about yet another part of the Star Trek universe. Those of you who remember I have a habit of making long replies to such questions. I am in a bit of a hurry at the moment so I'll get back to you with what will hopefully be an insightful and interesting reply.

[Commander Data]

(long time since i've been on)

 

Hey, the klingons would have won i think, but if the vulcanes allies joined in (the federatioN) then they would prob. win.

 

[Tenebrae]

As I said - these questions are meaningless unless qualified.

 

If I asked who would win a war between France and Germany... well, choose a time period and take your pick of results.

[TetsuoShima]

Let expand on a line of the original post for you then:

 

Suppose it did come from it, who would win, why, when, ....

 

In other words, the premise is up to you to decide, within the Star Trek universe. You can pick your own timeperiod, give different results for different times, reasons, think freely, set up your own reasonable 'qualifications'... ;p

[QUEENSPOCK]

didn't the klingons have trouble with tribbles

 

i mean i have my money on the vulcans on this one

[Tenebrae]

There's no point in asking such an open question. Just tell people to go off and write an essay on why X would beat Y if you want that.

[TetsuoShima]

Look, this thread isn't a debate on whether there is a point to the question or not, there is a point if someone is interested in the reply, looking at the situation from different timeperiods, opinions on how races might conduct themselves (keeping in mind their stereotypical racial traits), what people think about this. If you don't have an opinion or don't want to express it, or simply feel this thread is too silly for your involvement, don't give a reply (or at least don't give the same statement 3 times, we heard you the first time). Coming in a thread, saying multiple times the same thing with purpose to discourage the discussion is not acceptable.

 

Look beyond mere fact and make reasonable assumptions, if they are reasonable to you, then that's fine, and let others be the judge whether or not they are reasonable to them, in the sense, would Vulcans be able to outsmart the pure muscle of the Klingons, would they (Vulcans) lose their cool and go barbaric in their struggle for survival? I'm interested in opinions, not facts, as this is speculation about fiction. With that (personal speculation/fantasy on a scifi show) in mind, it should be clear to anybody reading this thread, that writing your own opinion on how you think this might turn out (call it a brief essay if you like, call it whatever), was the exact purpose of this thread.

 

It's basically about mind over muscle or the other way around, which is a more philosophical question placed in a Star Trek environment than anything else. For me the philosophy behind some of the ideas in Star Trek, is what makes it interesting. Though with the rise of mind-numbing shows since the late 90's, it's clear most people don't want to be reminded of the philosophy of their actions and instead simply want to be entertained by shows without much substance.

 

I lately have a tendency to try to overcome this by not writing full explanations about my questions and instead place them in a simple (be it silly) context instead and let the reader decide for himself how to respond to it, instead of pointing him in the direction I am thinking, so hereby I've distilled the core question out of the 'silly' context and with that partly ruined the fun of the situation, but at least you now no longer have to go look for 'the point'. Though given the size of this reply, I doubt anybody will ever bother to read it. If I wasn't in the mood for it, I wouldn't either.

 

Now, let's stop discussing the purpose of the thread and go back on topic.

[The Underscore]

    This doesn't make sense. Vulcans don't make war. Besides, anything's possible, beyond numbers. The Dominion had the upper hand, and the Feds won. The Romulans had cloaking technology in the 22nd century, but Earth won the war with them before the founding of the Federation. Vulcans are tactical geniuses and their logic and calm makes them impossible to stare down. But their logic can make them predictable. Klingons are ambitious and hearty, not to mention unpredictable. But they're not all that bright.

 

   It's a toss up, despite the whole "Vulcans make peace" thing. I'll also have to submit that there isn't enough background information to make a real judgment. Maybe in one century the Vulcans have the best chance, and the Klingons have it in another time.

 

    I will have to protest the vagueness, TetsuoShima, though you have a good thing going. A little detail would better drive this. All we have so far is an open field with a Vulcan on one side and a Klingon on the other. It's like asking whether Kirk can defeat Picard. We know that Picard has a better ship, but that Kirk was one helluva fighter mano-a-mano. Since we don't know where they are, when, or what kind of "war" is being fought, the best answers are going to be "I don't know" and "Maybe this, maybe that". Everyone who's rooting for the Klingons are forgetting that strength isn't everything. A faster ship, or a better shield system etc etc etc can make a difference. Those who are voting Vulcan may be neglecting the fact that Klingons aren't completely stupid and barbaric -after all, they did build those ships and the weapons.

 

      You may want to keep the stroke broad and the topic wide open; it's obviously up to you. I'm only stating how robust the conversation could be by giving everyone more than a blank canvas and saying "go nuts."

[Tenebrae]

Either side could win - given any context.

 

Happy now?

[J-NUKE]

I say Vulcans.  They seem to easily defeat opponents in hand-to-hand combat with no more than a couple of fingers.  Their ability to study and act objectively should also be a tactical advantage.  It seems to me more like caveman (Klingon) vs. ninja (Vulcan) just no challenge really.

[Killeravocado]

I say Vulcans.  They seem to easily defeat opponents in hand-to-hand combat with no more than a couple of fingers.  Their ability to study and act objectively should also be a tactical advantage.  It seems to me more like caveman (Klingon) vs. ninja (Vulcan) just no challenge really.

 

I agree/disagree with you. It'd be more like Priate vs Ninja... But I don't want to start that...

 

Klingons use shear strength and power to defeat their enemy. Vulcans, depending upon the time, would use Logic and Tech to defeat their enemy.

 

Both races really don't use emotions.

 

Klingons find honor in death. So IMHO, they would put more at stake and go after the prize. Whereas the Vulcans would make a 'tatical retreat' regroup, repair, rearm and go after them stinky Klingons agian.

 

I'm going to go off of my favorite era, TNG, for my ideas for who would win.

 

In space, it's pretty much a dead heat. I could imagine the start of a major war between the klingons and the vulcans, the Klingons would win hands down in the start.

 

They (Klingons), IMO, would use their cloak, sneek, and blow up ship after ship.

 

The Vulcans would eventually figure out how to see right through their cloak, and be able to fend off attacks.

 

Klingons would then use shear strength to try to deafeat the Vulcans... I can see 3 or 4 Klingon ships on one vulcan ship at a time, like pack hunting.

 

I can then see the Vulcans doing something to mess up the Klingon supply lines, and starving them from the inside out.

 

So, IMHO, the Vulcans would win the space war with great loss of ships, officers, personal, and resources.

 

Hand to hand combat on the other hand would be really interesting to see.

 

Vulcans running around like mongooses (sp) attacking the cobras (klingons).

 

Though vulcans have a more logical sense to battle, but there isn't any logic in battle, so IMHO the Klingons would win hand to hand.

 

So a total war between the two races, to me, would keep going indefinatly.

[Tenebrae]

As I've belaboured, it's pretty hard to answer the question without establishing a time period... Basically, then the Klingons show up, they're pretty hot stuff because of the technology they (somehow magically reverse engineered) got from the abortive invasion of the Herc... which was totally implausible but... slightly LESS implausible than Klingons managing to develop the wheel - let alone the warp drive - of their own volition.

 

Enterprise kind of made it more plausible with the Klingons lording it over everyone... But then, it was a mess too. They bemoan the fact that Klingons aren't what they used to be and that they're a bunch of barbarians running around smashing people over the head... guess the whole "stop being idiots" thing went out of fashion around the early years of TNG. Where you may recall the Klingons that appeared were pointed out to be backward and dinosaurs by all standards... and yet, that went on to become the norm. It makes the situation of Yesterday's Enterprise somewhat infeasible.

 

There can't be any doubt that the Vulcans are smarter, stronger and more technically proficient but it remains to be seen as to whether they'd really pursue the Klingons or pursue a peaceful resolution... of course, I suppose if they reasoned that the Klingons were a persistent threat that it might be best to wipe them out... makes sense.

[Guest]

As much as i like Chancellor Mar'tok, VULCAN LOGIC WILL REIGN SUPREME!!

 

But really if it did come to war, the only people to die would be the actual warriors. Vulcan's would see no logic in attacking civilians, while the Klingon's would find it dishonorable. I would actually think this is a pointless war as both sides don't have the balls, are to civilised for such an attack.

 

But still, VULCAN LOGIC WILL REIGN SUPREME!! :P

[Tenebrae]

Uh, Klingon "honour" is a crock. They run around in cloaked ships and consider blowing up anyone "honourable". As I've said before - honour doesn't mean anything if a Klingon says it... They just care about the body count.

[MrDad]

Everyone seems to have forgotten that the Vulcans were a vicious and ultraviolent people for most of their history, and only in the last few thousand years have learned to consciously control that aggression.  Think about it.