Guest c4evap Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 I stated that I thought he was. c4 B) Innocent or guilty?? PM if you don't wanna cause another bar fight... :p Guilty. I based that on the fact that he paid 20 million bucks to that first kid who accused him of molestation. I know he has (had?) a ton of money...but paying off somebody (IMHO) just says I'M GUILTY! c4 [of course I could be wrong] ;) Insider (very, very inside - I have only 2 degrees of separation from MJ) info says that the first kid was a genuine shakedown. Just because MJ was shaken down, doesn't make him innocent ... but the shakedown was real. Mayhaps...but I wouldn't pay someone 20 mil. I know some people think that he paid that kid off so it wouldn't hurt his career...but if that's true (that he was worried about his career) then why did he continue sleeping with young boys knowing how it would look to the rest of the world? The whole MJ thing just defies logic. c4 :thinking: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippincp Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 Has the guilty as sin MJ thread started up AGAIN? Sorry guys and girls the prats on the jury found him not guilty. One day I might understand the American justice system. Funnily enough the below explains what I think of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolcat13 Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 look he was found innocent and as an American I respect the decision of every jury .He is innocent or appropriately enough not guilty because 12 jurors said he was .until there is a better way to decide guilt or innocence i am willing to abide by thier decision . Now I know this was off topic and actually I did not know there was a controversial thread with Micheal Jackson in it in the 1st place (I am ussually on top of things in the forum but I missed this one ) back on topic : I think that as stated one can attack the message if done so intelligently with out attacking the messenger .It is an important point in debate .The thing that disturbs me is that the point is becoming less clear as the American mind set in politics especially is to distort the point by attacking the credability of the person making the point and thus muddying up the waters .I fear that this hostile method will spill over to the American public causing greivous rifts in Americas cultural existence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 Now I know this was off topic and actually I did not know there was a controversial thread with Micheal Jackson in it in the 1st place (I am ussually on top of things in the forum but I missed this one ) It was deleted by the creator (of the thread...not by GOD). c4 ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beawulf Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 I agree with pretty much everything has been said on topic, so I'll just say that I voted to keep private. I'm here to chat about star trek, sci fi, and have some thought provoking science debates. If I want to hear abuse I will put on a fish net shirt, tight vinyl pants and camp my way around the local yobbo bar :P hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenriswolf Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 Keep it private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekfreak04 Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 It's best to keep it private... We need to set an example for all members, so all will feel obligated to do the right thing. I for one sure didn't join up to antagonize any other member of this site... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekfreak04 Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 If you get so riled about an issue that you simply have to fire off a reply - consider sending it to me by PM. I'll quote it and send it back to you, perhaps with a few comments on the issue. Then you can choose to reply to the "miscreant" who riled you up - perhaps in a more conscious way - if appropriate, on the forums, if not in compliance with #4 (above), then by private communication. I've never seen an offer made like this one before, Elderbear... Gotta say that's one heck of an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorisP Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 I am going against the flow. What else is new? ;) When people fight, what happens? If there are only a few people around, there is usually a fight and someone gets hurt. If there are lots of people around, what happens? The fight is usually stopped. Because there is a larger pool of people, there is more variety of actions that can be taken to diffuse the fight. If I am fighting with a person, we both get tunnel vision, we can only see our points. If I am fighting, say in these forums, then some outside person can reach in between us and say "Hey, did you ever think of this?". Frequently, all that has to be done is offer a differing viewpoint to the combatants. They are fighting because they see no other choices. Someone only has to provide them with one and the fight is over. I wanted to fight publicly in the MJ thread because I really have no idea why C4 got mad. I think that it would be good training for people. They could see what I wrote, understand the way that C4 interpreted it, then see why we had a problem. Maybe someone could have reached in and said "Boris, C4 means this and that is the problem". Or someone could say "C4, Boris means this and that is the problem". Right now I have no idea what happened. I wrote my opinion, the thread disappeared and someone is really mad at me. I don't like personal messages. It feels weird to me. I got someone using private message in an attempt to psychologically undercut me. If I say that here, people can say "oh you are imagining it". If we were having the discussion publicly, another person could reach in and say "yes that man is trying to undercut your confidence". Or they could say "You are wrong. He is just talking and you have jumped to the wrong conclusions". People learn from others mistakes. I think that watching others fight teaches people. It makes them learn what makes people made and it makes them learn how to calm people down. They learn what thought processes and what verbal cues can be used to calm a person down or to reach thru their emotion to the thinking person currently buried underneath those emotions. Dealing with people is an art. That is why there is sociology and psychology. How can you learn the art of dealing with people if all the examples go off by themselves in the corner where they hide how they resolved the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psheldrake1 Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 I see Boris:p dosen't get the picture at all. The forum is for all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolcat13 Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 The point bieng made is that there are acceptable ways to argue a point and unacceptable ways . when an attack on ones character is made that is flaming and does nothing but provoke retaliation.this leads to a flame war and is ussually nothing more than just childish mudslinging .If you disagree with a point just state your point , why you disagree with thier point and if part of thier point has some validity it never hurts to point out the positives of thier point either . attacking a person for thier beliefs only serves to infuriate that person and does nothing to convince the undecideds that you have a good point .after all it is the undecideds that benefit from a diametrically opposed debate by thier bieng able to evaluate both sides .It is seldom that you will get a person who is firmly entrenxhed in thier beliefs to switch thier philosophy regardless of what you say .For those people simply agree to disagree.If we all had the same philosophy we would all be mindless drones and likely be republican LOL << Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 Has the guilty as sin MJ thread started up AGAIN? Sorry guys and girls the prats on the jury found him not guilty. One day I might understand the American justice system. Funnily enough the below explains what I think of it. Another juror goes undercover... EDIT: If anyone wants to re-start the MJ thread...please, be my guest. c4 ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 Mayhaps...but I wouldn't pay someone 20 mil. I know some people think that he paid that kid off so it wouldn't hurt his career...but if that's true (that he was worried about his career) then why did he continue sleeping with young boys knowing how it would look to the rest of the world? The whole MJ thing just defies logic. c4 :thinking: I've got no information about that - I think it's stupid. I think the parents who let their kids go to Neverland were unwise. I didn't sit on the jury and I did my best to avoid watching the salacious news coverage - so my opinion of guilt or innocence is useless. I do feel sorry for the kid who got caught in the middle, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 If you get so riled about an issue that you simply have to fire off a reply - consider sending it to me by PM. I'll quote it and send it back to you, perhaps with a few comments on the issue. Then you can choose to reply to the "miscreant" who riled you up - perhaps in a more conscious way - if appropriate, on the forums, if not in compliance with #4 (above), then by private communication. I've never seen an offer made like this one before, Elderbear... Gotta say that's one heck of an idea. And if somebody is riled about me - well, vent to Niteshdw or anybody else that is willing to receive your private vents - or confront me directly on PM or (appropriately) on the forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 I am going against the flow. What else is new? ;) When people fight, what happens? If there are only a few people around, there is usually a fight and someone gets hurt. If there are lots of people around, what happens? The fight is usually stopped. Because there is a larger pool of people, there is more variety of actions that can be taken to diffuse the fight. If I am fighting with a person, we both get tunnel vision, we can only see our points. If I am fighting, say in these forums, then some outside person can reach in between us and say "Hey, did you ever think of this?". Frequently, all that has to be done is offer a differing viewpoint to the combatants. They are fighting because they see no other choices. Someone only has to provide them with one and the fight is over. I wanted to fight publicly in the MJ thread because I really have no idea why C4 got mad. I think that it would be good training for people. They could see what I wrote, understand the way that C4 interpreted it, then see why we had a problem. Maybe someone could have reached in and said "Boris, C4 means this and that is the problem". Or someone could say "C4, Boris means this and that is the problem". Right now I have no idea what happened. I wrote my opinion, the thread disappeared and someone is really mad at me. ... snip ... Learning to practice courteous, respectful, and civil disagreements is a good thing. Such are welcome on the forums. Failing to disagree in that way will leave a person in violation of Posting Rule #4. And that's likely to get you a moderator note and your post edited/deleted. BTW, that's the group "you," not the singular BorisP "you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 I've kinda been silent on this subject since I really don't want to be involved in any more bs...but my (logon) name has been mentioned several times in this thread and I thought it time I responded. I wanted to fight publicly in the MJ thread because I really have no idea why C4 got mad. The above quote pretty much sums it up. I didn't come to this forum to fight. My original complaint was being referred to as a man (I am not) by another poster. This may not seem like much of a complaint to some but it's important to me. I PM'ed (private messaged) another member with my concerns. This turned a small problem into a rather large one as the PM was made public. Next thing I'm being flamed in the MJ thread (which I never got to see-it was deleted by a moderator) for a reason I still don't know. I thought I was doing the right thing by using a private message rather than posting it to these forums. I thought the other member would appreciate that and respond in kind. Unfortunately, things didn't work out that way. I decided to delete the MJ thread because I don't wish to bring any stress to this wonderful group of people here. Maybe I should have left it intact and just locked it for a while (as had been suggested) and let things cool for a while. It's a moot point now. Anyway, I wish this would all just go away...hopefully, this will be the first and last time I'll have to comment on this subject. EDIT: I'm fairly sure everything has been said on the subject so I'm locking this thread. EDIT: Thread in now unlocked. c4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c4evap Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Since this thread is now unlocked...thought I'd ask if there are any new opinions on the subject. It's OK to mention MJ in this thread if you want/need to. C'mon peeps...let's here from ya...this is the place to blow off some steam... c4 B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorisP Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 I've kinda been silent on this subject since I really don't want to be involved in any more bs...but my (logon) name has been mentioned several times in this thread and I thought it time I responded. I wanted to fight publicly in the MJ thread because I really have no idea why C4 got mad. The above quote pretty much sums it up. I didn't come to this forum to fight. c4 You must be kidding. See one of the zombie threads where C4 says she hopes Martha does violence to me for something I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S0V13T Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 She did? Must be becuase she's straight ballin' outta Compton, G. Yo, They call her C4, becuase she did 20 in the pen for blowin' up rival gang members houses with C4 charges, ya know what I'm sayin'? *scratches turn table, and makes a "C4" gang hand symbol* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 She did? Must be becuase she's straight ballin' outta Compton, G. Yo, They call her C4, becuase she did 20 in the pen for blowin' up rival gang members houses with C4 charges, ya know what I'm sayin'? *scratches turn table, and makes a "C4" gang hand symbol* Yo, dawg, don't be flashin no signs befo the man! Where yo C4 colors at? I flauntin mine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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