Aragon666 Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 I think this is bad, very bad!!! Hamas is a militant organization and they will not stop the suicidal attacks. In my opinion ther is no chane for peace in the near future, only war!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 maybe bin laden is winning after all. he has stirred up enough people all over the world. he has the middle east thinkn g that the west is out to get them and they are reacting by voting in a government who will represent their anger not their best interests. war at some point may be inevitable, i wonder how it would begin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDad Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 The Likud party was once the Irgun. Perhaps this will force Hamas to make that transition also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
str82u Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 I actually paid attention to this, but I don't know what I may have missed so bear with me if I sound ignorant. Right now the iminant threat the world assumes is the Hamas dropping right in on Isreal full force, but the rest of the world has only been affected through Isreal. HAMAS has not yet directly targeted US interests, although the group makes little or no effort to avoid targets frequented by foreigners. HAMAS continues to confine its attacks to Israelis inside Israel and the occupied territories. - From: Country Reports on Terrorism, 2004. United States Department of State, April 2005 Publicly Hamas leaders have said they would recognize Ireal's status as a country if only they clearly define thier borders. So far today it seems they are heading down a peaceful road, you never know, all the violence for power and now they have it, maybe they will find something better to do with this rather than continue with worthless pursuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mateya Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 he has the middle east thinkn g that the west is out to get them and they are reacting by voting in a government who will represent their anger not their best interests. but the west is out to get them. israel was artificialy made in the first place, and people in the east are working for peanuts so to speak for corporations like adidas, nike, gap..; not to metion oil etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synexo Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Eventually the Jews are just going to kill the rest of the Palestinians wholesale. They'll just slaughter every last one. And then America will roll into Saudi Arabia and Iran and slaughter all those people wholesale and become an oil exporter. And no other country will do anything about it, because they'll also need the oil, and China will have our back in return for a good deal on the OIL, and also because they want to cash the $500,000,000,000 in treasury bonds they've bought from the US someday. And the europeans need oil too and they won't use their nukes on America, and what does Russia care anyway? India will be happy for all the dead muslims, and the most we'll have to do is put one of our small nukes to good use and wipe pakistan off the map and... viola! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 he has the middle east thinkn g that the west is out to get them and they are reacting by voting in a government who will represent their anger not their best interests. but the west is out to get them. israel was artificialy made in the first place, and people in the east are working for peanuts so to speak for corporations like adidas, nike, gap..; not to metion oil etc. got my political groups mixed up, thought they were muslim. oops!! my bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipodean Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 Fatah - the guys who lost were once the political wing of the PLO, which committed terrorist acts. And Sinn Fein are of course the political wing of the IRA, once a very active terrorist organization. So yeah, Hamas will find that if it wants to maintain a mainstream political presence and if it wants to attain real political outcomes... well it will have to distance itslelf from its terrorist past. I think its safe to say that Hamas most likely will do just that, just like Likud - as MrDad said. But I think it's a great pity that Fatah has been displaced. Because at least Fatah held as its goal the creation of an independant secular Palestinian state. Hamas however rejects secularism in favor of Islam. Separation of Church and State is, I believe, an important fundament of democracy, and it is one, as Turkey has proven, that is as applicable in Islamic societies as Western ones. The reason the Palestinians backed Hamas over Fatah is obvious. Little has been accomplished out of the past decade of moderate political attempts by Fatah to bring about a Palestinian state. Palestinians still face rampant unemployment and until recently, rapidly shrinking territories. By not giving enough to the moderates, Israel has opened the doors for extremism to take hold amoungst the Palestinian people. It's a great pity that Yitzak Rabin was assasinated by one of his own Israeli citizens... I reckon had he lived, he would have seen the Peace process to its conclusion in an independant Palestinian State. If that had been accomplished, one of the major grievances of Palestinians and Muslims worldwide would no longer be an issue. I even suspect that Al-Queda might not me the household name it has become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyCell Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 i think i have an advantage in this topic i am an egyptian/canadian muslim liberal so i think i have a limb in each of the 4 camps first let me explain what mateya said about israel: but the west is out to get them. israel was artificialy made in the first place, and people in the east are working for peanuts so to speak for corporations like adidas, nike, gap..; not to metion oil etc. israel was artificially made we do not at all dent the exestence of the anciant soloman empire, but that doesnot mean that itis israeli land. this piece of the world was inhabitied a veeeeeery long time ago by what is known as the cananian tribes. they were niether jews not muslims nor christians, they were propably were beleivers of ancient relegions. the rest of the story later cause i really wanna sleep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilander72 Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 The Palestinian ppl felt that they needed new leadership with new ideas to continue their struggle with higher set goals. And obviously Israel won't give in to any demands. I'd be surprised if thing don't get worse anytime soon... Hamas leader: "We want..." Israeli leader: "Fire!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEAT84 Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 Let the apocalypse commence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyran Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 What can i say thats democracy in action Thats what bush wants ...oh not THAT democracy only the sort thats on his side Ooops naughty people voted for the wrong people stop the charity cos they dun like us no more if the usa dumped a load of people in the middle of aussie and said this is your land now would the aussies like it? if tony blair gave texas to all our assylum seekers and said this is your land now would bush like it? come on people the isrealies are in palestine and taking all the good bits and leaving all the bad bits look at the wall they are building it meanders all over the place fencing in all the water on the isrealie side not that i have a real opinion i'm british and we did worse in out commonwealth days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyran Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 Wow the one topic that makes me mad so i'll shut up now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 kyran has a point... Israel has been annexing land ever since it was formed, and it's only natural that people afraid of losing yet another home to Israeli settlers would try to save their homes by whatever means they could find. I seriously doubt the original inhabitants of what is now Israel were asked if they minded having their land cut up and given to Jewish settlers. Annexation always leads to bad feelings (if not outright hostility). ... I'm not saying suicide bombing is anything less than abhorrent, but I -do- think it's understandable. Desperate people take desperate measures, and if they can rationalize those measures into being acceptable they are something to be feared. Also, given that the forming of Israel was done with the blessing of the world community, it's very understandable that feelings of resentment against ALL non-arabs would skyrocket. This whole situation was pretty much inevitable... but after all this time, it's way too late to do anything about it other than to hope that Israel and Palestine work out an equitable arrangement at some point, preferrably soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightopian Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 For my part I'm kinda proud of the the way the vote turned out. The Fatah was about as corrupt as any government going. So much so that from what I understand, rather than present a united front at the ballot box, the party actually supported two or more candidates in some areas. (Splitting the vote is rarely a good idea.) On the downside, the only party that seems to have been united was Hamas. While they have done a lot to supply/maintain services that should have been handled by the government, they also are an armed militant group... Who didn't think they'd be able to win a solid majority. It's going to be interesting to see the government Hamas forms. Had they won a minority, they could have been influencial as an opposition party and still had some deniability for what their militant wing was up to. Now though, they're going to be forced (not so much by outside forces as by the people who brought them to power) to completely rethink their approach. They can't really have attacks and bombings being commited in their name any more as since they are the legitimate government and such activities would be tantamount to a formal declaration of war. As bad off as the Palistine government is (The Fatah was skimming the pot at a heinous rate), just supplying/maintaining basic services to the people and trying to build up their economy is going to require that they do what they can to stop not only their own terrorist activities, but other palestinian(sp?) groups that are in their borders. Granted, down the road aways going to war with Isreal again might look tempting, but despite whatever bluster Hamas may currently be spinning to keep from looking intimidated by other countries, I think (hope) their plate is gonna be too full just making their country as-is work (not to mention being turned out of office themselves if they try to pick up where Fatah left off corruption-wise) to be doing anything but trying to come to an agreement with Isreal that they can live with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyran Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 armed militant group ? some of them are armed some not! some americans are armed some are not using the argument that they are an armed group is misleading. on that basis bush and blair each are leaders of armed groups ........ or is it ok for us to have an army but not them? not being picky just observing Isreal don't want them to have an army either. that way they and their armed group can get in their tanks and helicopters and bomb the poor sods with very little risk i wonder when was the last time palestine drove into an isrealie settlement and blew up lots of buildings not for a long long time they dun have no tanks do they but isreal does it all the time and they get NO condemnation from the rest of the world everyones scared of being thought anti-semetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boris01 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 kyran has a point... Israel has been annexing land ever since it was formed, and it's only natural that people afraid of losing yet another home to Israeli settlers would try to save their homes by whatever means they could find. I seriously doubt the original inhabitants of what is now Israel were asked if they minded having their land cut up and given to Jewish settlers. Annexation always leads to bad feelings (if not outright hostility). First it was suppose to be TWO states, one for ARABS (There were not such nation as Palestinians) and one for Jews, this was the decision of the UN at 29 Nov 1947. But when in 14 May 1948 the British troops leaved these region and Israeli Prime Minister declared an Independence of Israel (the part of the land that was approved by the UN and where Jews lived ) ALL ARABS countries that surround Israel and the Arabs who lived in Israel it self lunched an attack against newborn state that didn't have even regular Army! And against all odds the Jews won this war and expand their territory. Then was another several war that all were start by Arabs and all were loosed by them. When Israel and Egypt signed a peace treaty Israel returned to Egypt the Sinai AND GAZA STRIP but Egypt didn't want Gaza and it stayed under Israeli control the same was with peace treaty between Israel and Jordan, but Jordan didn't want the WEST BANK and it also stay under Israel control, I want to remind you that Gaza strip and West Bank was captured by Israel during the wars from Egypt and Jordan there were not such thing as Palestinians LAND! After Oslo agreements when Israel gave control of Palestinians cities in Gaza and West bank to Palestinian Authority did they stopped their terrorist attacks on Israel civilians as was agreed - NO they even escalated their attacks and after that naturally Israel response was clear and justified not to mention that Israel forces try and most of the time successed in killing only terrorists. And these who says that Israel using too much power with Palestinians are wrong because even a simple rock can kill not to mention RPG, Mine and other weapons that Palestinian terrorist have, what did you expect if Palestinian shooting with AK-47 so the IDF must to shoot back only automatic fire and to put his soldiers at risk being killed, of course the will use a helicopter or tank cause it more effective and there are little risk for IDF troops. By the way IDF use smart guided missiles to kill only terrorists, they can easily use bombs as US and British army use in Iraq and Afghanistan but the don't, and terrorist know this and use civil population as human live shield. And the HAMAS are the leaders of the terrorist they did most of the terrorists acts against Israel so when they were elected it is clear what the Palestinians want they don't want peace with Israel they want that this conflict will continue. I want you all to see this short movie (15 minutes) and then reply. http://seconddraft.org/streaming/pallywood.wmv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightopian Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 armed militant group ? some of them are armed some not! some americans are armed some are not using the argument that they are an armed group is misleading. on that basis bush and blair each are leaders of armed groups ........ or is it ok for us to have an army but not them? I don't think my argument is misleading though. I do not (and wouldn't) deny the legit government of any country from having a standing army. My point was that since Hamas now holds the reigns of the government, any action they take carries by implication government approval. (Unless you concede that they can't control their own members, which then calls into question their ability to govern in the first place. *shrug*) Previously, because they did not have political control of the region and the government could claim the group was outside their direct control. Now Hamas does have direct control of both sides of the coin. How they manage that power is their affair of course, but their very position of power makes them much more immediately accountable for how they exercise that power, In much the same way that Bush, Blair or any other leader of a nation is accountable. As for Isreal, I can't think of many actions they've taken in my lifetime (ugh, four decades now :o ), that doesn't get roundly thrashed by the UN. For my part, no I don't agree with everything they've done, but on the whole, I don't think they've behaved even a tenth as badly as many nation-states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilander72 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 ...When Israel and Egypt signed a peace treaty Israel returned to Egypt the Sinai AND GAZA STRIP but Egypt didn't want Gaza and it stayed under Israeli control the same was with peace treaty between Israel and Jordan' date=' but Jordan didn't want the WEST BANK and it also stay under Israel control, I want to remind you that Gaza strip and West Bank was captured by Israel during the wars from Egypt and Jordan there were not such thing as Palestinians LAND!...[/quote'] Who won those wars, who had the 'power' during those peace-negotiations? I might be wrong but Jordan and Egypt had lost the war and the Israeli demanded land (strategic/tactical) to create a 'buffer' zone to prevent future conflicts. There's still a lot of 'claims' made by all nations surrounding Israel; Golan. I belive that both Egypt and Jordan wanted all the Israeli lands. Why else start a war in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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