Projectiles or Energy Weapons

[elderbear]

Energy or projectile...it seems Americans are favouring both at the moment...check this little nugget...

 

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/mech-tech/mg18524894.500

 

I actually felt sick when I read it...

 

I remember the police riots at the Democratic convention in 2000 (yeah, I hear Chicago in '68 was worse, but I wasn't there). Police were firing rubber bullets directly into the backs of fleeing protesters. Rubber bullets are allegedly non-lethal ordinance - but people have been killed by direct hits. For safe operation they must be bounced off of the pavement and into a person. LAPD completely ignored this as they went on a rampage with tear gas, riot sticks, rubber bullets, and other needless "non-lethal" force.

 

I watched Ted Hayes, an elderly black homeless organizer, beaten to the ground with nightsticks while he tried to show the police his permit to march. They didn't care. They were just trying to maximize body count.

 

I would not trust these people with high-tech weaponry, not even "non-lethal" weaponry. They have already proven unworthy of even the simple sticks that they carry. I shudder to think what might happen if they were armed with beam/laser/microwave/ultrasonic weapons.

 

[VonHelton]

You don't have enough money for him.

 

Now wait a minute........Let's not be too hastey!

 

How much money are we talking about?

 

:p

 

 

[psheldrake1]

Energy or projectile...it seems Americans are favouring both at the moment...check this little nugget...

 

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/mech-tech/mg18524894.500

 

I actually felt sick when I read it...

 

I remember the police riots at the Democratic convention in 2000 (yeah, I hear Chicago in '68 was worse, but I wasn't there). Police were firing rubber bullets directly into the backs of fleeing protesters. Rubber bullets are allegedly non-lethal ordinance - but people have been killed by direct hits. For safe operation they must be bounced off of the pavement and into a person. LAPD completely ignored this as they went on a rampage with tear gas, riot sticks, rubber bullets, and other needless "non-lethal" force.

 

I watched Ted Hayes, an elderly black homeless organizer, beaten to the ground with nightsticks while he tried to show the police his permit to march. They didn't care. They were just trying to maximize body count.

 

I would not trust these people with high-tech weaponry, not even "non-lethal" weaponry. They have already proven unworthy of even the simple sticks that they carry. I shudder to think what might happen if they were armed with beam/laser/microwave/ultrasonic weapons.

 

 

That would cure my hemorrhoids

[thanatos355]

I remember the police riots at the Democratic convention in 2000 (yeah, I hear Chicago in '68 was worse, but I wasn't there). Police were firing rubber bullets directly into the backs of fleeing protesters. Rubber bullets are allegedly non-lethal ordinance - but people have been killed by direct hits. For safe operation they must be bounced off of the pavement and into a person. LAPD completely ignored this as they went on a rampage with tear gas, riot sticks, rubber bullets, and other needless "non-lethal" force.

 

I watched Ted Hayes, an elderly black homeless organizer, beaten to the ground with nightsticks while he tried to show the police his permit to march. They didn't care. They were just trying to maximize body count.

 

I would not trust these people with high-tech weaponry, not even "non-lethal" weaponry. They have already proven unworthy of even the simple sticks that they carry. I shudder to think what might happen if they were armed with beam/laser/microwave/ultrasonic weapons.

 

 

one of my commanding, and training, officers at the prison i worked at a while back said something about cops that is more true and would be more helpfull then anything else i have ever heard. he said 'all cops should have to be C/Os first." meaning they should have to work at a prison for a certain ammount of time and go through all the training correctional officers do. c/os, as one i know, get trained in talk down before take down. we get trained in how to defuse a situation. we get trained in how to defend ourselves, the inmates we are responsible for, and fellow officers, using nothing but our minds and our hands. every time i see a citizen nearly beaten to death by a police officer, i think of this and of my training which would have allowed me, or a similarly trained person, to end the conflict within seconds with minimal force and no legal liability for the dept. it sickens me to see how little training the police have in such measures. what's worse is that i've been trying to become a cop for a couple years now and have not even had a single interview.

[mcant]

Inverse Square Law causes me a lot of problems with the whole concept of beam energy weapons,

 

Also while recently watching First Contact, as the borg where adapting to phasers but still vulnerable to knife attacks, it struck me that a crate full of 45s would have come in handy l :rolleyes:

 

After all the problems they've had with the Borg you think the idea of good old fashioned slug throwers would have occured to someone! especially as it was picards eventual saviour, why wasn't the ships armoury stocked with firearms?

[elderbear]

one of my commanding, and training, officers at the prison i worked at a while back said something about cops that is more true and would be more helpfull then anything else i have ever heard. he said 'all cops should have to be C/Os first." meaning they should have to work at a prison for a certain ammount of time and go through all the training correctional officers do. c/os, as one i know, get trained in talk down before take down. we get trained in how to defuse a situation. we get trained in how to defend ourselves, the inmates we are responsible for, and fellow officers, using nothing but our minds and our hands. every time i see a citizen nearly beaten to death by a police officer, i think of this and of my training which would have allowed me, or a similarly trained person, to end the conflict within seconds with minimal force and no legal liability for the dept. it sickens me to see how little training the police have in such measures. what's worse is that i've been trying to become a cop for a couple years now and have not even had a single interview.

 

Elderbear bows, honoring Thanatos355

 

There, you've confirmed it. The best weapon is not an energy beam weapon, it is not a kinetic energy (slug thrower) weapon, it is between your ears.

 

Just finished reading the book Blink. One of the interesting things the author mentions is that police departments who send out individual officers on patrol have significantly lower complaints, violence, injury, weapons drawn, shots fired, etc. Why? Because a lone officer feals vulnerable and uses that weapon between his ears before he uses the weapons on his belt.

 

Another interesting book I recently read was Verbal Judo: The Gentle Art of Persuasion, written by a police officer who had a PhD in English Lit and a decade or so of martial arts training. When his CO told him that he'd be fired if another complaint against him was filed, he applied what he'd learned in martial arts to verbal interaction - he used that weapon between his ears to diffuse tension and obtain desired results.

[mic]

Phasers on stun, :cyclops:

[Soulreaper]

Very good posts around this topic!

 

I did vote for Energy weapons but as you guys just heavily discussed; both have their up and down sides and I guess both are equally good but have their best strenghts in different areas and/or situations. As most things....*

 

Something that would be quite nasty is to use a huge asteroid and then equip it with the "Footprint Magnification System" they have in Andromeda (which works both ways - being capable of making an object big OR small physically appear like something else to sensor / scans.) - that could inflict major pain :D

 

 

[mcant]

damn I just re read a novel on that theme, "Footfall"?? something like that, a first contact situation with a herd species. anyone remember it?

[thanatos355]

one of my commanding, and training, officers at the prison i worked at a while back said something about cops that is more true and would be more helpfull then anything else i have ever heard. he said 'all cops should have to be C/Os first." meaning they should have to work at a prison for a certain ammount of time and go through all the training correctional officers do. c/os, as one i know, get trained in talk down before take down. we get trained in how to defuse a situation. we get trained in how to defend ourselves, the inmates we are responsible for, and fellow officers, using nothing but our minds and our hands. every time i see a citizen nearly beaten to death by a police officer, i think of this and of my training which would have allowed me, or a similarly trained person, to end the conflict within seconds with minimal force and no legal liability for the dept. it sickens me to see how little training the police have in such measures. what's worse is that i've been trying to become a cop for a couple years now and have not even had a single interview.

 

Elderbear bows, honoring Thanatos355

 

There, you've confirmed it. The best weapon is not an energy beam weapon, it is not a kinetic energy (slug thrower) weapon, it is between your ears.

 

Just finished reading the book Blink. One of the interesting things the author mentions is that police departments who send out individual officers on patrol have significantly lower complaints, violence, injury, weapons drawn, shots fired, etc. Why? Because a lone officer feals vulnerable and uses that weapon between his ears before he uses the weapons on his belt.

 

Another interesting book I recently read was Verbal Judo: The Gentle Art of Persuasion, written by a police officer who had a PhD in English Lit and a decade or so of martial arts training. When his CO told him that he'd be fired if another complaint against him was filed, he applied what he'd learned in martial arts to verbal interaction - he used that weapon between his ears to diffuse tension and obtain desired results.

 

 

aww shucks elder, you're gonna make me blush. ;)

 

it's amazing the things you can learn on the other side of the razor wire.

[Soulreaper]

Hehehe, very interesting Than!

 

Yes indeed; if properly harnessed the powers of the mind are incredible.

 

Great awarenesscheck to add that into this post.

 

Can't do anything more proper but to join the honoring fold and Bow!

[elderbear]

damn I just re read a novel on that theme' date=' "Footfall"?? something like that, a first contact situation with a herd species. anyone remember it?[/quote']

 

Yes. By Jerry Pournelle - one of those writers who didn't get any votes. I found it pretty derivative from Lucifer's Hammer, another Pournelle book that I enjoyed much more.

[ghostwolf357]

I'm really impressed that this thread has lasted this long, still energy weapons are cool. Nothing says loving like vaporizing. :p

[mic]

Energy or projectile...it seems Americans are favouring both at the moment...check this little nugget...

 

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/mech-tech/mg18524894.500

 

I actually felt sick when I read it...

 

I remember the police riots at the Democratic convention in 2000 (yeah, I hear Chicago in '68 was worse, but I wasn't there). Police were firing rubber bullets directly into the backs of fleeing protesters. Rubber bullets are allegedly non-lethal ordinance - but people have been killed by direct hits. For safe operation they must be bounced off of the pavement and into a person. LAPD completely ignored this as they went on a rampage with tear gas, riot sticks, rubber bullets, and other needless "non-lethal" force.

 

I watched Ted Hayes, an elderly black homeless organizer, beaten to the ground with nightsticks while he tried to show the police his permit to march. They didn't care. They were just trying to maximize body count.

 

I would not trust these people with high-tech weaponry, not even "non-lethal" weaponry. They have already proven unworthy of even the simple sticks that they carry. I shudder to think what might happen if they were armed with beam/laser/microwave/ultrasonic weapons.

 

 

I am with you on this, I think many of US police forces are full of sadist and culture of Gestapo like techniques is fully integrating in to mind of some forces or extreme elements.

 

there was one a joke about police, what's the Paradise in the World

- answer was British Police, French trains, Italian Culture and Food, German Technology and US Organisational skills, what's the on hell on earth response was, German Police, British Food and Culture, French Technology, Italian Organisational skills and US Trains. lol, I would say US police too, lol...

[Soulreaper]

Well, even Swedish police used to be like that up until 1970 or so

[r0xx]

I still want a FN Five-SeveN and a P90.

Nothing rapes an evil jem'hadar or borg as good as a P90.

or M4 SOCOM. with C-mag.

 

And it works on sadist police forces too.

[S0V13T]

Nothing rapes a guy using a P90, as an evil jem'hadar or borg (drone).

[czernyman]

Only problem with a P90 that I can think of is that I don't see how they'd work in space :)

[Engineer101]

i like the new XM8s they are being created once the Military Approves.

and the picture below i got from Heckler and Koch's site

[piepie]

GRAVITY GUN!