xtremeskiing Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 Clone away, it don't matter. Certain species have a quirk in DNA replication that makes it virtually impossible to clone them. It's the reason cats don't clone as exact replicas, dogs dont clone at all and the same with humans. Its getting to a point where they say that cloning an entire human being (or dog) is impossible. The Greater The Ability...The Greater The Desire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elderbear Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 OK ppl...input time!!!!! is cloning ok????? is it ok for spare parts???? would they have the same rights as us???? religious opinions?? c'mon i need to know before i start my own clone farm if it is right or not!!!!! and btw i dont think any comments will offend anybody cause i havent started growing any clones yet.... Certain "herbs" are best propogated by cloning ... I've got nothing against that! But if you clone a human ... well, the clone wouldn't be anybody's property, it would be a human, entitled to all the rights and responsibilities that any other human has. I guess, if you believe in souls, you'd have to say that a clone has as much of a soul as a twin does, or demonstrate otherwise. Of course, I seem to remember reading that clones degenerate faster - the genetic clock of an infant clone already has 9 months + the age of the genetic sample it came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkR0 Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 yes, >certain< herbs... |) well, my main point for the legitimation of cloning is historical: every "great" invention in mankind was first oppossed,mainly by people who had no gain in innovation,the powermongers,be it (for all you still-christians out there) Martin Luther abolishing Ablasszahlungen(it's when you pay the church or better the people running church for the atonement of your sins) or the quarrel between Nicola Tesla and Thomas A. Edison about power distribution(edison stuck to a way less efficient Dc-system while Tesla build the fundament for todays AC-network,well in the end edison had no chance and he stole allot of teslas idea for profit,tesla made a couple thousands of dollars while being promised a fortune). Its very easy for me to dismiss any existing moral about cloning (better said the christian way of treating morals, always this boundry of the bible as if there was no own consience/reasoning to be use) since im half atheist half agnostic (if that can be expressed that easily). while i do favour a scientific view of the universe,that is, the universe of mankind, i still believe that there has to be something like a unconceivable constant in the universe,rendering us able to think(and that is our soul, our intellect); while there is a posibility that our brain is just a dynamic chaotic system,reorganising itself to order and structure ,its just that, a possibilty, and it makes one feel small and people don't like that. Humans don't like the thought that the way they are created is not very clean and sacred but a sheer result of physics, we mask it ,christianity tabooed sex because its just too simple for the begining of a sacred being,a godlike image of themselves. so even if we clone a human being, that won't bring us a step closer to knowing if there is god ,there is a soul or anything, were just reproducing nature on a low level (and yes it is since we cannot change atom by atom of the DNA). the result is unknown, the justification is curiosity and the barrier is our own ignorance and prejudice,our clinging to be not only unique but very important to something very meaningful(lets just say god). And of course i didnt want to flame on christianity so dont even try opposing my view aggresivelly,the least i can stand are those fundamentalists claiming they are right and they are right because its christian; if we would follow some of the ten commendments and let away some (from my pov) misguided beliefs we could have paridise on earth or, even better, a Trek like comunity B) sorry if i get off and on topic lenghtly time and again,but that was quite my "stream of conscience" the moment ive read the posts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the6ofpopes Posted April 9, 2005 Share Posted April 9, 2005 Evolution is alive & well people. Mankind evolves on a continuing basis, we evolve every second of every day that we exist. Science is just another tool that contributes to the evolutionary process of mankind. Everything mankind does affects our evolution is some way, from the foods & medicines we use to who we mate with. Evolution is part of nature & is unstoppable, so should we clone & is it right? The answer is simple, if we have the ability to do something, than it can't be wrong. Right & wrong are merely words man created to justify his actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oma Posted April 9, 2005 Share Posted April 9, 2005 Of course, I seem to remember reading that clones degenerate faster - the genetic clock of an infant clone already has 9 months + the age of the genetic sample it came from. Yes! In our cells our DNA-strings have teleomers on the ends - every time a cell divides it has to transkribe the DNA and a teleomer is cut off. When no teleomers are left on the ends cell division is no longer possible. The exception to having teleomers are the tissues that are evergrowing in us; hair follicles, gonads and perhaps the lining of our intestines. Also, finding a way of restoring teleomers have been theorized of as a way of longevity - but it just ends up with cancer. So you could think of teleomers as a safeguard against cancer - but if the mutation happens to be in the part for transcriptase so it doesn't even check for teleomers, then cancer can happen. (cancer isn't one mutation - it's several, knocking out the safeguards) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oma Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I hate it when I kill thread!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werecow Posted April 13, 2005 Author Share Posted April 13, 2005 oma, i fixed the dna problems with my test clones...i just soaked em in vinegar for a lil whole and it fixed en right up!!! the only things i have cloned here so far have been a pair of chuck taylors for my daughter and the family cat after she got ran over....pretty good results so far tho gracie 2 (the cat) kinda looks at me funny during the night time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S0V13T Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I think that cloning is a wonderful idea. I mean how else is the Republic gonna fight off those Droids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 let me try and be as succinct as pos with this. if cloning were legal and worked we could all marry seven of nine :D :D :D i convince anyone yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werecow Posted April 13, 2005 Author Share Posted April 13, 2005 oh i dont know...i might go for a whoopie goldberg clone...i think she is pretty but i dont agree with her politics..... <<<<< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulreaper Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 Well people in order to preserve your clones, just feed them with regular crap (i.e. "normal supermarket food / supplies") and they'll be mumified for life! Hell just eating canned mushrooms or a white bread slice once contains enough preservation fluids/liquids to contain oneself for years! ...but then again, maybe McD will save us all then?? :p :stare: :p :cyclops: :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tisjusme Posted April 13, 2005 Share Posted April 13, 2005 I have been interested in this subject for a long time. And I think the Governments of the world will eventually go for it in some way. I would like to see people who need a new heart - to have one grown. I have researched among other things, evolution which if studied correctly, can show signs that the Human DNA was changed somewhat by unknown means. My theory is that the Black people of the Earth are the original inhabitants and with Alien DNA added by ET's ,thus creating a hybrid white man. If this did happen, then they most probably used a similar process to cloning. I think it is a natural evolutionary effect of any HealthCare system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oma Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 (...) I have researched among other things, evolution which if studied correctly, can show signs that the Human DNA was changed somewhat by unknown means. My theory is that the Black people of the Earth are the original inhabitants and with Alien DNA added by ET's ,thus creating a hybrid white man. (...) So how about asians and the other races - are they made from an alien pet??!? Anyway, If by "unknown means" you mean that there are sudden jumps in the rate of mutations - then that is not uncommon. The shifting rate can be explained by something called "punctuated equllibrium" (stupid name, I know..). In punctuated equillibrium you have a large population from which a much smaller population is isolated for several-many generations. In the small one inbreeding (and other negative effects on the gentic diversity) plays a bigger part - but on the positive side any beneficial mutations will spread more succesful to the entire small population. In a large population a lot of beneficial mutations never spread due to pure chance and dilution. Anywho... imagine that several beneficial mutations occur and the entire small population ends up having them. Then if this small population is reintroduced to the larger population the good mutations will spread quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymity Posted April 14, 2005 Share Posted April 14, 2005 The Asgard seems to have achieved a certain measure of immortality through cloning... Not a bad idea though, clone the body then transfer the mind to a newer younger version of the body. Maybe yes if and only if the duplicate body remains as healthy or healthier than the original body. I wonder when we'll reach this capability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oma Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 I would imagine that we could seperate some cells right after conception and somehow store them so they don't divide....then when you're old you could pay some woman to have you/your identical twin inserted for ...gestalting?. But of course, all this requires that your parents seperate your cells right after cenception. About the transfer of personality....not a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azuro Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 i dunno y... but it just sound silly to me. disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorisP Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 I think clones are a bad idea. We are all a little guilty of optimistic Star Trek thinking. In the real world, what is going to happen? Only rich people will be cloned. Poor people will go ahead and die. People are supposed to die. It is part of life. What if the better world really was on the other side? Earth is a testing ground. If you are good, you go to the better life on the other side. If you fail, you get reincarnated and have to come back to Earth and try again to prove that you deserve to live in the good place. All those cloned animals and stuff. Why? You can have regular animals reproduce naturally. Why bother with cloning? Same with GM foods. There is no good reason for it other than control of seed stocks and control of profits from agriculture. It is about control. The people that do science and politics are all about control. They want to control every aspect of a person's life or the things that happen in nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oma Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 OK, what I'm going to suggest now isn't really cloning: There exists a lot of genetically inherent illnesses such as Huntington's Chorea and dwarfism. If it was possible to replace the genes that are defective with ones from a large array of healthy donors when one with such an illness wishes to have a baby - would you approve or disapprove? (this is to be seen in the utopian light where it would be an option to every layer of society and only be used to avoid ilnesses - not improving look, stamina,stregth, etc.) (I would approve) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbb Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Cloning organs for transplants can be a good thing. Cloning human bodies is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vystral Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 Yes. Agreed. This goes back to that Enterprise episode from season 3 where Trips dies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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