The previous "40 years"?

[Mav]

In the new BSG series, it kicks off having been over 40 years since humans have even seen a Cylon.

 

Our ambassador still sits waiting to meet and possibly talk peace, as we saw in the Mini Series right?

 

But all through season 1 (and a few in season 2) they make these little references to thing's in the past.

 

In the episode, The Hand of God, when Apollo is awake and nervous before the mission he talks with his father. Before his father gives him his grandfathers lighter for good luck, Commander Adama makes a comment about the Viper Mark II (they were in the hangar bay).

 

"Mark II. Good ship. Got me out of alot of tough scrapes."

 

We know C. Adama was a pilot before he moved up the ranks of the Colonial Fleet. We assume Apollo is in his mid-to-late 20's, his father can't be much older than his late 40's early 50's. 40 years ago, we'll take a guess and say he was 18 or close to it (Making him roughyl 58 now, which I doubt). Now based on his current appearance, I think it's safe to say Adama, isn't almost 60 years old. He looks old, in his facial features, but unless he had Zak and Lee when he was around 35..I mean let's not forget in Kobol's Last Gleaming he is boxing (sparing) with Lee. Not fake stuff either a full on spar match. Maybe it's just me but I can't see someone like Lee willing to hit a man in his 60s'

 

The point of that example is, what kind of action did Commander Adama see in the last 40 years? I highly doubt in those 40 year's he fought Cylons. It's confirmed we have not seen them in 40 years, and safe to say Adama isn't that old. Plus I doubt the Colonial Fleet recruits at 16 or younger (I'd guess 18). So unless some routine missions or something went wrong, maybe a flying accident, he saw no war-time action.

 

We know the Viper that Adama flew was old and used. Chief even mentions in the Mini Series how they found it just laying around an old junkyard. But it obviously wasn't used for combat, and the wear n tear was just age.

 

Also 40 year's is a large number.

 

The Mini Series showed how, by 40 years the average human was putting the war behind them and most Battlestars were being decommisioned for various reasons right? Yet the military personal all still trained and stayed alert as if any moment the Cylons could show up. Obviously the Cylons did show up and it was obviously a good thing the Colonial Fleet had the training to handle it (yea they got wiped out but the element of surprise was aganist them). The point is, don't you think after 20 some years they woulda, I dunno, relaxed a little?

 

It just seems odd that an entire race (humans) would go 40 years living their lives in such a way. I wouldn't say they lived in "Fear" but definitely over cautious. Yes, again the Cylons did eventually stage their stealth attack, but it just always seemed odd that way.

 

And another thing is, all the nuclear devices don't emitte EMP's?

 

Think about it. The Viper Mark VII's were taken down, easily cause it was simple just to auto power them all down since their systems were all interlinked. Whereas like Galactica, the Mark II's have their systems not networked right? So why make something like the Mark VII? If Galactica's technology was a proven defense, as well as the Mark II's, why go create something that can be taken over?

 

Which at the same time relates to the EMP. I'm not saying the cylons used EMP's aganist the Mark VII's but when you saw how they could just infect a Mark VII's systems, you had to think for a moment. I mean Galactica's been hit dead on by a nuke before, with little to no consequence. Where's the EMP?

 

I got offtopic some but there are other examples in season 1 of people talking about past experience in combat, yet either they didnt appear to be around back then or they simply weren't old enough. Discuss

[bones2097]

em shielding.......

not attackin 40 years, couldn't resist the benifits of networking....

maybe it was cheaper??????? :)

 

i'm pretty sure they had a few tiffs in those 40 years...

[snackx]

Well about the age thing :

 

There is no indication in the episodes on the age of the people.(at least not to my knowledge) So it is easily possible that the average age and ageing rate is different due to better healthcare and technology.for al we know adama could be 80...

 

it's just an idea.

 

and for the shutdowns on the ships wilst they encounter the cylons:

 

the navigation program by balthar allowed the implemention of the cylon virus and shutdown of the ships. ( mentioned in an episode in S1). So maybe the colonials are advanced enough in computer technology to block the cylon virusses.(and galactica is just to old to resist their hacking attempts)

[hutchim]

In the original BSG Adama is over 100 "jahrens" old.

[daro]

In the original BSG Adama is over 100 "jahrens" old.

 

IIRC He was about 120 "jahrens" old, it was in the ep "Lost Planet Of The Gods" Pt 1.

[Mav]

So a "jahren" is BSG jargon for "year"?

[daro]

Yep...

[Mav]

So how do they live to be so old? On one hand if they live to be that age, their medical technology must be far ahead than anything we have in reality, but at the same time if you look at new BSG the President is dying of cancer, and she's not even that old.

[MrEvil]

Remember, President Roslyn didn't get diagnosed with breast cancer until it was waaaaaay too late. (Doc Cottle mentions this, she hadn't been to a doctor in 5 or 6 years) Even with the best medical technology, I don't think they can just magically cure a body RIDDLED with cancer. You're pretty good at guessing ages though, Edward James Olmos turns 59 in February. Entirely possible that Bill did in fact fight the Cylons 40 years ago. Remember, the reason he isn't any higher ranked than Commander is that time that Tigh briefly flashed back to where they were on a civilian ship. I think the time frame falls in quite well. Adama could be older than 58, several years older.

[BastardFox]

In the new BSG series, it kicks off having been over 40 years since humans have even seen a Cylon.

(and a few in season 2) they make these little references to thing's in the past.

 

And another thing is, all the nuclear devices don't emitte EMP's?

 

Think about it. The Viper Mark VII's were taken down, easily cause it was simple just to auto power them all down since their systems were all interlinked. Whereas like Galactica, the Mark II's have their systems not networked right? So why make something like the Mark VII? If Galactica's technology was a proven defense, as well as the Mark II's, why go create something that can be taken over?

 

Which at the same time relates to the EMP. I'm not saying the cylons used EMP's aganist the Mark VII's but when you saw how they could just infect a Mark VII's systems, you had to think for a moment. I mean Galactica's been hit dead on by a nuke before, with little to no consequence. Where's the EMP?

 

Discuss

 

“the Mark II's have their systems not networked right? So why make something like the Mark VII?â€ÂÂ

 

That’s a good question, BSG seems to emulate our current military to some extent, with that having been said, I think it’s logical to assume that they were following some kind of “network-centric†warfare idea. This has many benefits, including but not limited too..

 

Total battle field awareness, if every vehicle, and every soldier is linked via some kind of information network, you can get data on enemy strength, number, and tactic from multiple angles, that information can even be relayed to .. air superiority craft for example, any jets flying sorties at that time, could redirect to offer air support, or, armor could roll in and suppress the enemy, or you could upload that information to another squad and team up almost instantaneously.

 

How would network-centric warfare benefit aero-space fighters in BSG? I believe, pretty much the same way they wish to handle fighters today, one tactic I know of, is to pain a target, and have your wingman switch off his radar, using an information feed from your systems instead. While the enemy thinks he simply has one hostile, quite some distance away, the wingman is actually sneaking up onto him, nearly undetectable.

 

So, in summary, I think the legislators, and even some of (if not most of) the military felt that either their technology wasn’t vulnerable, or superior to Cylon attack. Or, that they felt the Cylons were no longer a threat. I think that’s actually pretty sound reasoning, looking from their prospective, the last thing they knew about the Cylons, was, what they designed .. or observed in the last war. They probably designed their “defense mainframe†to include lots of security measures, uber encryption ect. ect. don’t forget number 6 was actually allowed into the mainframe, with unlimited access, that’s probably what made the Colonials vulnerable (Not to say Cylons wouldn’t have figured out a way, but, Cylons are most likely all about efficiency)

 

Alternately, They felt the Cylon threat was over, and geared their military towards killing each other once again ^^,

 

“Galactica's been hit dead on by a nuke before, with little to no consequence. Where's the EMPâ€ÂÂ

 

In real world fighter vehicles, including but not limited to ships and fighter aircraft, they’re shielded against EMP’s, I think Allied forces use some kind of grounding system coupled with some kind of electronics “cageâ€ÂÂ, the Russians just used vacuum tubes :3, I think it’s reasonable to believe that Battle star’s and fighters would have some kind of shielding. (They are even more technologically advanced then we are, yet seem to share the same technology tree to an extent, kinetic energy weapons, thermonuclear device.)

 

[Mav]

In real world fighter vehicles, including but not limited to ships and fighter aircraft, they’re shielded against EMP’s, I think Allied forces use some kind of grounding system coupled with some kind of electronics “cageâ€ÂÂ, the Russians just used vacuum tubes :3, I think it’s reasonable to believe that Battle star’s and fighters would have some kind of shielding. (They are even more technologically advanced then we are, yet seem to share the same technology tree to an extent, kinetic energy weapons, thermonuclear device.)

 

So let me go out on a limb here, since we don't have full information at hand:

 

Let's say Battlestars and Vipers (both Mark VII and Mark II) are shield aganist EMP blasts. So while a nuke can physically damage or destroy both, it's EMP shockwave really has no effect. Ok, makes sense.

 

Then how does the Cylon "attack" on Mark VII's work? The first thing that springs to mind probably is, it's a Cylon virus, similar to the "logic bomb" Baltar and Geita (spelling?) discover aboard the Galactica, interfering with systems, power, etc. Makes sense right? If Geita was able to tell it was a virus (later Baltar going into detail about it) then wouldn't it be logical to assume other more technically minded people would have spotted it? Look at the Miniseries, the Viper Mark VII's go down without a fight cause of it right. And in the meantime the "fleet" of civilans is being formed, which leads to Galactica protecting them and whatnot. You'd think someone would have examined what happened to those Mark VII's that try to defend other ships, and eventually come across something, maybe the "Cylon virus", but they didnt.

 

And it wasn't an EMP, despite having all the same effects as an EMP, the Mark VII"s just like Battlestars and Mark II's are shielded aganist EMP.

 

It's not a huge plothole but it's one I wondered about. Especially since Pegasus's Mark VII's were operational aganist the Cylon Raiders.

 

 

[MrEvil]

Mav, I beleive in either the Pilot or the first couple episodes Baltar figured out that certain lines of his code in the Viper Mark VIIs' operating software had some level of vulnerability to cylon attacks built-in (since he was using code provided him by Number Six). Galactica herself obviously has older and isolated computer systems that didn't get this software, but her Mark VII's did.

 

Regarding Pegasus, Remember that Admiral Cain said Pegasus was in for an overhaul when the attack began, so it would be safe to assume that the Vipers and the Pegasus herself didn't receive Baltar's software updates complete with Trojans. I'm basing this on the fact that Galactica is an older vessel and would probably be low on the list of vessels to receive new fighters. Pegasus being a flagship commanded by an Admiral probably got one of the first batches of Mark VII Vipers. Heck, for all we know Lt. Thorne might have found out about the Mark VIIs' software flaw via their prisoner.

[Mav]

Hmmm good points. As many times as I've seen "33" and the Mini, I shoulda remembered Baltar's code. I remember him and Geita going over it and such. Totally went out of my mind. I wonder, somewhat related, if his original programming was vulnerable to Cylon viruses, did he have a part to play in some of Galactica's older software? The small virus that got through Geita's network, seemed to really frak the ship over pretty fast, even though it lay dormant for a few weeks.

[MaestroUK]

I'm more puzzled as to why the mk2 vipers can stay with a new cylon raider, much less shoot one down. Infact you could ask how can they even detect them. Same goes for the Galactica cannons. Even if those are still powerful enough to do that, I'm surprised they can still lock or even locate, a target. Also, they still cause damage to a new basestar! In addition to those, the smallarms, while maybe newer, wouldn't necessarily be effective either, yet they can waste a new centurian guard with a couple of shots. I wouldn't have expected to even make a dent, never mind take one out.

[magestorm]

It's not all that puzzling. Here's what I understand from watching the show.

 

The vipers all are similar, just like the f-18 hornet, and the f-18 superhornet. Both are the same basic plane, but one is modernized and souped up. As far as I can tell, this is similar to the Mk 2 and Mk 7 viper models.

 

As far as EMP hardening and or shielding, we have this already. Mostly for space and military use, we have electronics that are hardened to withstand EMP. Also, the use of a Faraday cage can easily protect non hardened electronics against EMP.

 

As far as armaments, remember we're talking 40 years, not 400 or 4000. There are World War 2 weapons that can still sink ships today. A World War 2 fighter plane could definitely shoot a modern aircraft out of the sky, if the person flying it is skilled enough. Now, is it likely that a P-52 Mustang be able to shoot down an F-18? No. But possible? Yes.

 

Now, the virus. In the miniseries, there was a ton of confusion going on. No one really had a lot of time to sit around thinking up why some fighters were going poof while others were just fine. All they knew was it was happening. We figured out that the Cylons got their hands on the code for the updated defense network, and used it to crash systems.

 

Now, the logic bomb used on Galactica was a different beast. While the original virus was possibly just a trigger for a trojan horse, the logic bomb was a learning virus, which modified its own code to affect the systems it inhabited. Nothing abnormal about either of these, as we have similar programs now.

[Hilander72]

In the original BSG they mentions that the average life expectancy is ~200 'jahrens'.

 

Problem is, is a 'jahren' = a year?. Our year is based on the time it takes for Earths to complete one orbit around the sun and I can only assume that a 'jahren' is something similar...

[magestorm]

Well, this is assuming that they based the yaren off of Kobol, since the colonies would most definitely have differences. If Kobol ran a similar 24 hour rotation, and a similar 365.4 rotation orbit, then yes, a Yaren is a year.

 

Though for all we know, it could be totally different. They never really explained it in the original series, and they dropped the use of it in the remake.

[Anonyman]

.

 

Because the writers wanted it that way. Viper 7 versus 2 is like Joint Strike Fighter versus F-14 Tomcat--- not much difference in capability.

[Tenebrae]

Observation:

 

WW2 happened about 60 years ago but you didn't see - despite occasional tabloid sentiment - Britain waiting for them to come fight us again and military tactics have changed.

[magestorm]

And remember, we are talking about a threat that happened 40 years ago. If you had no war at all in 40 years, you'd see the first decade or so have major changes, only for the designs to slow down, only making internal modifications, such as engines, weapons, avionics, and the like. When you use the same basic design, but make internal modifications, it is the same ship, only given a new designator, to diferentiate it from the older design. The US Military does this already by giving the plane a subdesignator, a letter telling you if it is original or a newer variant.