Dont let the UN Control US

[grillguy85]

So again ghostshadow - I feel that some fact checking would perhaps be in order before you mindlessly seize hold of the tirades of some ignorant redneck facing courtmarshall.

I'm wondering if you could define 'redneck' for me? I'm under the impression that the term refers to a negative stereotype that many would say has no place here, or anywhere for that matter.

 

 

So stereotyping is bad? I don't think so, not in all cases. Some people are nothing but walking stereotypes. I don't think you should typecast someone before you know them, but I live in Georgia. Trust me, rednecks exist, and they are all mindless, and this boy seems to fit that description. If they still stereotype in the 24th century, what hope is there for ours?

[bones2097]

opps :)

 

i thought redneck had something to do with inbreeding... lol :)

[MrDad]

In this context I'd define 'redneck' as a crazy ill informed bastard who is trying to carry out an ill thought out legal defence which is based on no principle of law whatsoever, but rather on some crazy notion of a UN conspiracy to violate the sovereignty of nations.

 

If you feel that that collectively describes a negative stereotype, bear in mind that it also describes the facts of his situation.

 

You had a logical, well thought critique of his beliefs and actions, then you had to stoop down to the level of personal attack. What would Spock say?

 

So stereotyping is bad? I don't think so' date=' not in all cases. Some people are nothing but walking stereotypes. I don't think you should typecast someone before you know them, but I live in Georgia. Trust me, rednecks exist, and they are all mindless, and this boy seems to fit that description. If they still stereotype in the 24th century, what hope is there for ours?[/quote']

 

I've heard Klansmen and Skinheads give the exact same excuse for their prejudices and stereotypes and it impresses me no more now than then. If we stop pigeonholing people into groups and treat them as individuals instead, the world will be a better place. You would expect no less for yourself.

 

 

[Antipodean]

MrDad: I'm not sure why you seem to be taking such an antagonistic position with me here. Do you support this soldier with his dubious legal claim? Fair enough if you do, thats your call.

 

In anycase, I'm australian and we perhaps use the word 'bastard' with less bile than other parts of the english speaking world. If that is the word you take issue with... I humbly withdraw it. Everyting else I've said stands. If it still counts in your mind as a personal attack, then so be it. As I said, but for that word, the rest still amounts to the facts of the situation.

 

And MrDad, if you do wish to challenge my arguements and assertions, I welcome it, but please do so in an upfront and honest manner, rather than nitpicking like this. Its petty and suggests a wider ideological opposition to my position, but one that lacks the courage to speak for itself.

 

 

[theaveng]

I think the United States should hand the job of "world policeman" to the European Union. Let the EU go into a few trillion-euro debt fighting terrorists & other madmen.

 

 

Meanwhile the U.S. will just continue importing/exporting & living peacefully with our Mexican/Canadian neighbors.

 

 

[maverick]

 

I've heard Klansmen and Skinheads give the exact same excuse for their prejudices and stereotypes and it impresses me no more now than then. If we stop pigeonholing people into groups and treat them as individuals instead, the world will be a better place. You would expect no less for yourself.

 

 

well then lets all just be ourselves then. how many klansmen or skinheads are truly being individuals? how many join a group and "fit in" with typical behaviour traits. so when people in situations like their are stereotyped its is, perhaps because they are not acting like an individual ut as part of a group.

 

if you dont want people to classify you as a dick, then dont act like one:D

 

:Dpeace, love, empathy

[moomini]

I think the United States should hand the job of "world policeman" to the European Union. Let the EU go into a few trillion-euro debt fighting terrorists & other madmen.

 

 

Meanwhile the U.S. will just continue importing/exporting & living peacefully with our Mexican/Canadian neighbors.

 

 

We dont want the job!! Nice to see an american aspiring to our way of life though.

 

We've already had our turn at ruling the world, if you dont want the job anymore, you just have to wait untill your empire collapses, like all others in history

[TetsuoShima]

I think the United States should hand the job of "world policeman" to the European Union. Let the EU go into a few trillion-euro debt fighting terrorists & other madmen.

 

 

Meanwhile the U.S. will just continue importing/exporting & living peacefully with our Mexican/Canadian neighbors.

 

 

We dont want the job!! Nice to see an american aspiring to our way of life though.

 

We've already had our turn at ruling the world, if you dont want the job anymore, you just have to wait untill your empire collapses, like all others in history

 

Hear, hear! :cyclops:

[Antipodean]

I think the United States should hand the job of "world policeman" to the European Union. Let the EU go into a few trillion-euro debt fighting terrorists & other madmen.

 

I think the whole pretence of "world policeman" is a load of bull anyway. Just ask the good people of Darfur, Sudan, recently victims of a calculated campaign of genocide about how much they'd have appreciated a little world policing.

 

But hey! There's no oil in Darfur - F#CK EM.

 

I think you'll find that certain US interests are making quite a tidy profit from Bush Jnr's little world policing escapades. Just ask the executives of Halliburton how their financials are looking this year!

 

And all it cost was the lives of thousands of loyal US Servicemen and countless Iraqis.

 

 

 

You know, once upon a time war profiteering used to be a crime. Now it seems to be something that even governments embrace.

[Exterus]

I don't like country specific patriotism. It serves no purpose but to separate the nations of the world further. The United Nations and the European Union, while not perfect organizations, are a step in the right direction. They signify a miniscule but undeniable step towards global unification. The people of the world today are unable to concentrate on solving the current and future worldwide crises because of regional squabbling. The US whine about the UN and the UN whine about the US all while the EU whine about the US and the US whine about the EU. Greed, religion and ignorance seem to be the foremost things that are to blame for the childish stupidity of humanity. We let small, trivial issues take on humongous porportions and thus lose sight of what really matters.

 

I'm just sick of all the crap that is going on. Fossil fuels, one of the crutches of the world and its economy, is going to run out soon. And instead of cooperating to find a new, more efficient and ecologically improved alternative power source (which could also be the key to more advanced space travel too), a retard in a cowboy hat that has too much power for his own good is letting himself get manipulated by the corporations to send young men and women to their deaths in waging a bloody war to get a hold of more of this soon-to-be-depleted fuel. Meanwhile, the UN is too busy screwing prostitutes and taking bribes to give a rats ass about what's happening and the brass of the EU cares more about signing paper and clogging down bureaucratic channels than to make an honest effort of uniting Europe. Africa is torn apart by civil wars, aids and poverty while no one except the occasional PR-hungry celebrity gives a shit about it.

 

It's sad, really. I have started to believe that the bright future that Gene Roddenberry dreamed of is never going to happen.

[Antipodean]

It's sad' date=' really. I have started to believe that the bright future that Gene Roddenberry dreamed of is never going to happen.[/quote']

 

 

Look at the Star Trek universe. Look at the world where it was at when Zefram Cochrane invented that warp drive of his.

 

The whole Star Trek vision of a better future is prefaced on a world where Whales are rendered extinct, and where a third world war has wiped out most of the nations of the world.

[theaveng]

I don't like country specific patriotism. It serves no purpose but to separate the nations of the world further.

However, some nations are "freer" than others. I'm sure you don't disagree that the U.S. or EU are better nations than, say, non-free Saudi Arabia.

 

 

As for "policing the world", it would be as simple as saying, "Forget you Arabia" and "Here EU. Free military bases", and then bring the soldiers back to American shores. You see I view current U.S. actions as equivalent to me walking into my neighbors' homes & telling them how to run their lives. Neither I nor the U.S. has any business doing that.

 

 

 

"While one of your leaders runs around mad & the other leaders as though they are half mad themselves, rest assured that we shall live in peace & liberty here in these united states." - George Washington

 

Forget Bin Laden. So he wanders around Afghanistan setting up black tents & digging tunnels. Why should we care? It won't affect us here at home in the U.S. We'll just repel his attacks with our nuclear navy & continue living peacefully.

 

 

 

[TFMF]

This is a post from another forum that i thought MAY be relevent

 

Regardless of what the press and liberals say, Intelligence did not fail in Iraq. The Intelligence community are not a Judge and Jury. Their job was to find INDICATIONS of Iraq possessing or trying to build WMD. I this mission they did their job. Whether there were the WMDs that we believed, or whether they were moved to another country prior to the war, such as Syria, is irrelevant.

The indications were there and they did their job.

 

Fact: Saddam used WMD when he gassed the Kurds. Fact: Saddam purchased precursor chemicals, (it really does not matter what they were really purchased for). Fact: Saddam violated a dozen UN resolutions for over 10 years. Fact: Saddam shot at coalition aircraft over 60 times. Fact: Saddam continuously went out of his way to make it look as though he did have WMD.

If WMD was all a ruse by Saddam, well he lost that game of chicken. I liken Saddam and WMD to this.

 

The police are called to a home where it is reported that the man that lives there is shooting a gun at people. A quick police check reveals that he has shot and murdered a man, years earlier. When the police arrive the man is standing on the porch pointing a gun at the police. They shoot and kill the man. Later they determine that the man had a fake gun. Who is at fault? Had he not pointed the fake gun at the police, he would still be alive.

 

I think you get my point. Had Saddam complied with the UN sanctions and allowed free access to UN inspectors, he would still be in power.

 

IF YOU DO NOT THINK IT IS RELEVENT OR IF YOU ARE JUST GOING TO TEAR MY POST TO PIECES THEN JUST IGNORE IT!!!....or else! :)

[maverick]

what was that TFMF? didnt hear a word

[Rubus]

Cheese and Rice!!!! I was hoping this place was at least ONE place I could "escape" from all this political B.S.! Apparently not. I can only speak for myself, but I have a sci-fi side that likes to come here and read and post about sci-fi, and I have a political side that took my political concerns to the White House back in September and was arrested with about 400 other concerned citizens. I take my political interests to Washington. I take my sci-fi interests to niteshdw.

 

If people want to piss and moan about politics, I'd be more happy if that kind of discussion was taken to a political-based message board (e.g. any of the Air America Radio boards - or any of the Right Wing boards if you're a brain-dead FREAK!).

 

I guess in the "Ten Forward" zone "anything goes", but jeeze, take the "real world" politics B.S. elsewhere. At least get into Romulan vs. Federation politics on THIS site. Good GRIEF! :-(

[elbubsio]

So the UN are an inferior government to the US because they're unwilling to attack a country on flimsy evidence which later and quite obviously turns out to be wrong (got any pictures of those mobile bomb making centres Colin, No, just some nice drawings). But wait - luckily that country happens to have a massive oil reserve that we can plunder in exchange for helping to rebuild a country we helped to destroy. Result!! It doesn't really matter if a few thousand innocent civilians and allied soldiers die in the process of 'liberating' the country - several of them killed in friendly fire incidents, after all we're going to give them a nice new government. Oh did we mention we'll be picking most of it.

 

The USA, like most major world powers have at one time or another, is having it's time at imperialism and has been for several years. It invented the cold war to suit a political agenda and is doing so again with terrrorism (cue ominous thunderclap). It invades anywhere it likes for any reason it chooses. It tells the world how dangerous these terrorists are when America in fact helped train and arm half of them. It gives you news reports that tell you how great everythings going, but virtually no footage of the hundreds of dead US soldiers being unloaded from planes. It uses a media almost totally controlled by the government to tell it's citizens exactly what it wants them to hear. It has a power mad chimp of a president who's been caught on camera saying he'd love America to be a dictatorship, as long as he's the dictator. It's a country that will send thousands of young men and women into a misguided war for 'freedom', yet when someone asserts their freedom by burning the flag they'll likely get beaten or even killed. Brainwashed, naaaah.

 

America is by it's own criteria for terrorists the biggest terrorist country currently on the planet. It abuses the rights of it's prisoners, ignores the constitution when it suits and allows rights trampling laws like the patriot act to be put into force. All very Orwellian.

 

This is of course not to say that ALL Americans are corrupt or imperialistic, sadly just the ones in power.

 

Bubba

 

 

War never determines who's right, only who's left - Bertrand Russell

 

All wars are civil wars, because all men are brothers - Francois Fenelon

 

A pre-emptive war in 'defense' of freedom would surely destroy freedom, because one simply cannot engage in barbarous action without becoming a barbarian, because one cannot defend human values by calculated and unprovoked violence without doing mortal damage to the values one is trying to defend.  J. William Fulbright

 

I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity.  Dwight David Eisenhower

 

In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.  Jose Narosky

[Antipodean]

Cheese and Rice!!!! I was hoping this place was at least ONE place I could "escape" from all this political B.S.! Apparently not. I can only speak for myself' date=' but I have a sci-fi side that likes to come here and read and post about sci-fi, and I have a political side that took my political concerns to the White House back in September and was arrested with about 400 other concerned citizens. I take my political interests to Washington. I take my sci-fi interests to niteshdw.[/quote']

 

 

If you read the title of the sub-forum 'Mirror Universe' it specifically states:

"Everyone is full of treachery, deceit, and political opinions"

 

If you don't wish to read political opinions, its just a simple matter of avoiding that sub-forum ;)

[Shade109]

Oh well,

 

I usually only read, not post, but now I need to reply...

 

To the OP:

 

You are saying that the USA is defending its citizens. Well...let me tell you how I see things:

 

I fully agree that 9/11 was barbaric, uncalled for and an act of war. However, I also think that Mr. Bush is now using this attack as a universal reason to do what he wants, where he wants, and when he wants.

 

And what does Mr. Bush want?

 

Oil..and lots of it. Because in forseeable time, oil resources will be limited..and the nation with the biggest reserves will have a tactical advantage.

 

Lets project this on the US administrations actions...

 

First they went to Afghanistan. No comment here. These guys deserved every single missile, and if it were me, I would've used nuclear weapons, no questions asked. Until they would've killed Bin Laden..try running from a nuke...Bin Laden is stupid enough to try.

 

Second they went into Iraq...not to defend their people I say (Lets face it..even if Iraq actually HAD chemical or nuclear weapons...I yet have to see a country other than the US, Russia or China that has ICBMs or IRBMs.) but to secure the continued supply of oil to the US over the next decades.

 

Now Iran..I can almost predict that it will be the US to strike them - Not any NATO troops. The same as for Iraq applies: Oil, oil and oil again. Iran has the 2nd largest oil reserves on the planet. And also again, even if Iran had a nuke, they dont have ICBMs or IRBMS..not to mention the second Israel would learn of those nukes they'd bomb Teheran into oblivion.

 

I agree that each country has the unlimited right to defend itself. What the US however do not realize is that countries have borders, and that inside those borders, countries can more or less do what they want.

The US are doing it within their borders (Screw the Kyoto protocol, anyone?)...so why do they even THINK they could tell other countries not to do what they want. Neither Iraq or Iran directly attacked the US. Heck, they are on the other side of the globe...

 

And here is where the UN fits in...its a group of several countries...powerful countries, mind you.

If all these countries come to the conclusion that Iran is a threat...I'd be the last one to tell them "screw you".

 

This applies to a lot of other possible situations..the UN as a whole is part of the reason there has not been WW3.

 

To say that the UN is illegal, or its practices are illegal, is not even patriotic, thats insane. You dont want the UN? Well then, I hope you love the idea of a global thermonuclear war within this century.

 

One last quote to give you to think: "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones" (Albert Einstein)

[psheldrake1]

Don't worry to much about it ghostshadow. There will be a new pawn for the US to use soon in Canada. The liberal gov. will be gone and the bush, butt licking conservitives will be right there.

[Hilander72]

22nd century historian (2036-2041)

 

The rest of the World watched the US and started to realise that this couldn't continue. It was wrong. The World leaders feared the worst and said "Beware the World will turn againts you". When this day finally came the World was not forgiving. History had recorded the stories about Yankee leaders and the atrocities commited in the past and then World still wondered why the citizen of US didn't react. Was the truth to obvious or forgotten in the past or were they simply afraid?

By then it was to late and the US was already racing towards it's own destruction. The skies was already glowing and the darkness started to fill the air. The dark winter arrived...

 

This is only Sci-Fi or is it? :thinking: