Mav Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 60th anniversary? uh, last I rememeber TOS premiered in 1967, that's 40 years ago exactly. I remember cause they made a big hubbub about it this year, including the Christie's Auction that had thousands of pieces of Trek props and related materials. It was all startrek.com could talk about for like a month straight, anniversary this, anniversary that (I read the site daily, like to keep informed on trek news) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 60th anniversary? uh, last I rememeber TOS premiered in 1967, that's 40 years ago exactly. I remember cause they made a big hubbub about it this year, including the Christie's Auction that had thousands of pieces of Trek props and related materials. It was all startrek.com could talk about for like a month straight, anniversary this, anniversary that (I read the site daily, like to keep informed on trek news) This episode was produced to honour the Star Trek franchise's 30th anniversary..not the 60th lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetsuoShima Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Err first public Trek ep premiered in 1966. This year it will have been 20 years since tng premiered (september). :) It really doesn't look all that aged to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 I hardly think you can compare the generally episodic nature of Star Trek and it tendency to just doss around for 2-3 seasons before getting going and B5's long running intrigues. B5 may not be all guns blazing from the get go but it's not like season 1 was just a bunch of duff episodes. The same cannot be said of... TNG, VOY, DS9 or ENT. If you watch seasons 1-2 of DS9 you'll notice that they're sitting right next to a wormhole... but seem almost completely oblivious to it for the first couple of seasons. With Enterprise they really did drop the ball and just did generic Star Trek instead of showing how the Federation was formed. In fact, they did that pretty consistently. Instead of having the Earth/Romulan war we had them fighting a totally new, totally unmentioned race. You'd think that someone might mention that humanity faced a few critical threats before Kirk et al had to defeat probes intent on messing up Earth. You didn't even really get any feel for the Earth colonies that were out there. I mean, we had that one where the colonists were all a bit crazy. The real problem is that they obviously wanted to do stuff with races we knew but had painted themselves into a corner. That's the real problem with prequels. Personally, I think the best resolution for Enterprise would have been if the entire debacle had been erased by the Temporal Cold War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Err first public Trek ep premiered in 1966. This year it will have been 20 years since tng premiered (september). :) It really doesn't look all that aged to me... yeah that actually right it aint ages that bad...far better than you would of expected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiggy Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Glad someone is paying attention ;) The documentary goes on to say that many fans were lost because DS9 was not seen to be as high brow as TNG in regard to the technologies and scientific nature of some of the episodes. I always thought that TOS era was when the Enterprise first encounters the Romulans, so for Archer to get into major scuffles with them wouldnt of been correct. Anyway there are two Romulan episodes in Season 4 and the Romulan mine field episode from I think Season 1? I know John DeLance has been done to death but I would of loved for him to just drop in on Enterprise and mess the crew about. He always made me laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetsuoShima Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Well, it is mentioned in a 1st season episode of tos, that 100 year (or something like that) before Kirk, they had a war with the Romulans, resulting in the Romulan neutral zone, ... Also, Q visiting the Enterprise would have messed up the timeline equally bad as the Xindi, no mention of Q before TNG really, even though some Q-like entities were encountered in TOS, there's even speculation that they may actually have been Q. Do love Q episodes though! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 I think DS9 was seen as something of a wash out by people because it had a mission to boldly stay in the same place... but as I've said, if you look at the first couple of seasons of DS9, they're pretty awful... there are about half a dozen episodes where the station gets taken over or there's possession or similar. As to Romulans - there is the Earth/Romulan war which occurs during the Enterprise time frame but neither side sees the other... presumably because their view screens were broken. The cardinal sin as far as I'm concerned is that they just made Enterprise too advanced. You get the impression that after Voyager Berman et al realised that treknobabble was just getting out of control and so used a prequel as a way to nerf the 'babble. Of course, while they managed to stop half the screen time being taken up with incomprehensible nonsense they didn't really add anything of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiggy Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 I just watched the last 3 episodes of season 4 again. Is Tpols and Trips child supposed to be Star Trek I wonder, some sort of metaphor going on there? Now I must say that the death of Trip was a little needless. How the hell did a few space pirates manage to board a starship so easily with out triggering any censors? The clip with all three Enterprises made up for Trips death! lol I`m suprised no one has made that into an avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mav Posted September 2, 2007 Share Posted September 2, 2007 I think DS9 was seen as something of a wash out by people because it had a mission to boldly stay in the same place... but as I've said, if you look at the first couple of seasons of DS9, they're pretty awful... there are about half a dozen episodes where the station gets taken over or there's possession or similar. The same thing didn't happen with TNG? From seasons 1 through 7, each season had it's episode or two where some alien/program/computer virus took over the ship or vastly endangered it. DS9 was a new take on Trek. After TNG, the exploration idea was infact getting stale. How many more series could they do about a Starfleet ship exploring space always running into random anomalies and stuff? DS9 had this too but on a far less degree. The fact DS9 introduced the first stable wormhole in known existence was cool. DS9 also was a nice splash of cold water. The one thing, and probably only thing, I didn't like about TNG, it was too perfect. Aside from random encounters with the Borg or Q, there were never any threats of war or long term huge scale violence. Not that the viewers wanted it, but the occasional skirmish with Captain Tomalok and other Romulans was about the total extent of any kind of feud. DS9 took the ball and ran with it. Federation life is paradise basically. We are free to grow and expand our lives. Explore new worlds, seek knowledge and wisdom. Most Federation planets have eliminated war, poverty, bigotry (especially Earth). You think every species in the universe wants that same outlook on life? Of course there were bound to be a few that didn't. The Borg were one but the writers had to use them sparingly since they were so powerful. The Dominion War was perfect. It had a "villain" that could be especially overbearing, powerful and yet still potentially beatable. DS9 was like the perfect Season 4 of Enterprise. It was a 7 year story arc, with appropriate stand alone stories in just the right places. DS9 was basically the misfit races show. Trills, Bajorans, Cardassians. All these cool races, that originated on TNG but were never given storylines to really develop, suddenly had 7 years to grow, including impressive backstories (The Occupation, Dax's livespan, etc). Sure Klingons rock, I love them but it was nice to have a series that didn't have a Vulcan in it, or a Betazoid. I'll give you the fact a good part of the stand alone stories took place on the station, they also explored quite a bit. I mean they were the only Federation outpost even remotely close to the Gamma Quadrant. They explored that quadrant quite well, especially after the Dominion made themselves known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soval Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 I think Enterprise was a bit of a hit and miss show. They just tried stuff and hoped it would work out in the end. What we got was a series with great potential and some really great episodes but some of it did not make sense. Soval going from distrusting Archer to suddenly liking him? And what about Admiral Forrest and hios sudden aboutface in season four when he yelled at Archer? These were odd things to occur in such a short timespan. I would have preferred Enterprise going on exploration missions instead of tactical, political and rescue missions. It just got a little bland after a while. When the show started I was all pumped up for it. I stayed enthusiastic for the whole first season. Season two got a little slow at first but started to get better towards the end of the season. Season three was one-big gigantic story arc that turned out ok but showed that the writers didn't really know what to do with the series. Season four was good but got a little violent for my taste. By the time season four ended I was like, yeah I remember that series, it used to be good but now I'm just waiting for the new star wars movie. Season four of enterprise was ok, it had some really good episodes but looking back I don't think it was good enough to save a sagging series like that. Even now I don't think it could have gone on the way season four wrapped up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feluxe Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Yesterday I watched "In a mirror, darkly" parts one and two. Great episodes! :D I really think enterprise is getting better every season! I'm looking forward to seeing the last episodes. I heard that "These are the voyages" is a bad episode, still, I'm looking forward to see Riker and Troy. When I will have finished Season 4, I will have watched all Star Trek there is, except the DVD-Extras. I'm already thinking about what to watch next. I think it'll be Battlestar Galaktika or Dr. Who, the old or the new ones. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebrae Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 TNG - yes, there were plenty of "OMG THE SHIP HAS BEEN TAKEN OVER!" episodes... and it was formulaic... but it's just jarring with DS9 compared to the rest of the series and also because the episodes are SO similar. I really refute the whole seven year story arc with DS9. Other than Emissary and some VERY vague allusions to the Dominion in season 2, there isn't really much to contribute to the overall plot... I really think that in the truest sense, "The Search" was the beginning of the story arcs - certainly the Dominion one. Much of what transpires in the first couple of seasons is irrelevant beyond the establishment of characters. Most notably Sisko moving from short hair and clean cut, to beardy and then beardy and bald. I would agree though that there weren't many problems in TNG that couldn't be overcome in 45 minutes. Even when you had tensions with the Cardassians and the Romulans and so on, it was never grim... except possibly Yesterday's Enterprise, which doesn't count by nature of being an alternate timeline. Of course, in many ways the nature of DS9 was very different not just in terms of structure but outlook. Picard's stance on morality was very rigid, almost to the point of black and white. Sisko was much more shades of grey... Picard would never have a "In The Pale Moonlight". He passed over a chance to destroy the Borg - for the rights of ONE drone. Sisko was very much more "if the ends justifies the means"... That was somewhat undermined by the fact they occasionally used his status as the Emissary to get the wormhole aliens to give him (and the Alpha Quadrant) a get out of jail free card. As you say Chiggy, the beauty of the Dominion is they were powerful but not a super race... their power lay in their numbers, resolve, strategy and cunning... not the fact that they had magical uber technology. So, that they used the wormhole aliens twice as a deus ex to win the day was somewhat insulting. In fact - I believe I've lamented that it undermined the entire war when they reopen the wormhole in season seven and the Federation start winning and it's all implied that this is the doing of the wormhole aliens, it was a real insult to the viewers. DS9 did well with its mix of races. Typically you only had one or two aliens as main characters on other shows. In DS9 we had (by season 4) Quark, Odo, Kira, Dax and Worf... not to mention Garrett and Morn. Enterprise did have quite some turn arounds... like the whole Archer/T'Pol romance getting dropped in favour of the Trip/T'Pol grope fests and them suddenly going LOOK HOSHI IS INTERESTING! In season 4... by which time it didn't matter. For me, season 3 was a good idea but executed poorly. As I've said - it would have been a good time to do the Romulan war but there we go... it was missed oppurtunties on all fronts, really. The 4th season was definitely the strongest but it was still hit and miss, even then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mav Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 TNG - yes, there were plenty of "OMG THE SHIP HAS BEEN TAKEN OVER!" episodes... and it was formulaic... but it's just jarring with DS9 compared to the rest of the series and also because the episodes are SO similar. I really refute the whole seven year story arc with DS9. Other than Emissary and some VERY vague allusions to the Dominion in season 2, there isn't really much to contribute to the overall plot... I really think that in the truest sense, "The Search" was the beginning of the story arcs - certainly the Dominion one. Much of what transpires in the first couple of seasons is irrelevant beyond the establishment of characters. Most notably Sisko moving from short hair and clean cut, to beardy and then beardy and bald. I would agree though that there weren't many problems in TNG that couldn't be overcome in 45 minutes. Even when you had tensions with the Cardassians and the Romulans and so on, it was never grim... except possibly Yesterday's Enterprise, which doesn't count by nature of being an alternate timeline. Of course, in many ways the nature of DS9 was very different not just in terms of structure but outlook. Picard's stance on morality was very rigid, almost to the point of black and white. Sisko was much more shades of grey... Picard would never have a "In The Pale Moonlight". He passed over a chance to destroy the Borg - for the rights of ONE drone. Sisko was very much more "if the ends justifies the means"... That was somewhat undermined by the fact they occasionally used his status as the Emissary to get the wormhole aliens to give him (and the Alpha Quadrant) a get out of jail free card. As you say Chiggy, the beauty of the Dominion is they were powerful but not a super race... their power lay in their numbers, resolve, strategy and cunning... not the fact that they had magical uber technology. So, that they used the wormhole aliens twice as a deus ex to win the day was somewhat insulting. In fact - I believe I've lamented that it undermined the entire war when they reopen the wormhole in season seven and the Federation start winning and it's all implied that this is the doing of the wormhole aliens, it was a real insult to the viewers. DS9 did well with its mix of races. Typically you only had one or two aliens as main characters on other shows. In DS9 we had (by season 4) Quark, Odo, Kira, Dax and Worf... not to mention Garrett and Morn. Enterprise did have quite some turn arounds... like the whole Archer/T'Pol romance getting dropped in favour of the Trip/T'Pol grope fests and them suddenly going LOOK HOSHI IS INTERESTING! In season 4... by which time it didn't matter. For me, season 3 was a good idea but executed poorly. As I've said - it would have been a good time to do the Romulan war but there we go... it was missed oppurtunties on all fronts, really. The 4th season was definitely the strongest but it was still hit and miss, even then. So, let me ask you this. It was ok for Q to in his own means and ways, help the human race through all his power and manipulation but the Prophets couldn't? I'll grant you the fact that Sisko's "mother" being a Prophet was a little stretched but it the first time they really helped, it was a must-do situation. Either they stepped in and stopped the Dominion Fleet in the Wormhole or the entire Quadrant would have been overran long before the end of the war at the finale of Season 7. You are right in that they (the Dominion) were more about numbers, strategy and fighting than superior technology. But that was the breaking point for the Prophets to step in. IIRC, when the Dominion Fleet in the Wormhole was destroyed, the only Federation ships near DS9 or the wormhole at the time was just the Defiant. If you can't really get behind a super technology race like the Borg, how could you justify a race that basically "zergs" their way to victory? The Defiant stood no chance against that entire fleet, even if they could somehow collapse the wormhole (assuming Sisko would think of that, at that point). The ground work for the Dominion War arc is there from Episode 1; Odo is a Shapeshifter, he knows nothing of where he came from or why (which we later learn why). The Cardassians, a proud race, withdraw from Bajor, humiliated in defeat by a band of small time rebels. This later leads them into favoring the stronger ally in their eyes; The Dominion. Or at least, it does in Dukat's eyes cause while even others such as Damar might allow peace with the Federation and Bajor, Dukat could never let that happen even if it meant selling every Cardassian life to The Dominion. So from the pilot of the series, the basic foundation of the story is set. Every episode isn't a storyline to further the plot of this 7 year arc, I'll grant you but you can't begrudge the show for having standalone episodes? Hell Babylon 5 had standalone episodes and it's entire premise was a 5 year story, even if the first season was very very slow paced. I still believe DS9 to be the superior of the series. Simply cause exploration is just, not old but done before. While that is the ultimate goal of humanity in the 24th century, what's left to explore past the Gamma Quadrant and parts of the Beta Quadrant? Voyager covered a good part of the Delta Quadrant. We've covered a handful of the Gamma Quadrant. IIRC, Half the Federation is actually located in the Beta quadrant so there's not a lot left to explore unless there's just a ton of planets that are chartered but never explored individually. You can tell by Voyager's era, there were only so many random encounters with space anomalies or new species that could be done before the formula was old and tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feluxe Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I have have now watched all Star Trek there is, except TAS and all the DVD-Extras and the last episode of enterprise, Enterprise - 4x22 - These Are The Voyages. So one more episode to go. I heard that this last episode is crap, but I'll see for my self. I think tos, tng and ds9 are the best. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mav Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Yes the last episode is indeed crap. I won't spoil it but I doubt you'll like what happens to some of the characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiggy Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 You mean the last episode of TNG :D Having said I like what T'Pol has done with her hair. :thinking: In the second to last scene with Trip..........note the little wink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Knight Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 i hated the last ep of enterprise. but the is a book that continued the ep. it is called what good men do. it makes it not so bad. but i wish they didn't do what they did to trip on the tv version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiggy Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 It made me laugh how the aliens show up out of no where....no detection on sensors or any indication what so ever. He does wink though.....so you know hes not really dead. I know I`m like the Star Trek undertaker on this forum...........but yet again we dont see a funeral for the guy! So yet again more evidence to suggest he isnt dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feluxe Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 It was indeed a crap episode. The thing with troy and riker and the holodeck weren't necessary. And I think the ending was a bit aprubt. I was expecting to hear captain archers speech... :( So what about tas? Anyone watched it? Is it good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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