Gay/Straight

[daffydk]

The problem with american people is that they are too conceeded with their own religions to see that marriage is not necessarily a Christian-only practice. Gay Marriages are against the Christian beliefs, but people can get married in other places then a christian setting.

 

In the end.. people should finally understand that regardless of the sex of the person one loves, we are all people and we should all be given the same rights and priviledges as everyone else. Unless you commit a crime against society, in which case you should burn.

 

 

I think people should stop bashing americans. People vote based on whatever is important to them; whether it is their religion, gun control, economics or foreign policy, etc.

 

Anytime there is any single issue or event, it is possible to call whole countries' population conceded. But it is irresponsible to do so. I can give you hundreds of examples were you can condemn the germans, the austrailians, the russians, the brittish, and so on and on.. but that would not be a very intellegent thing to do!

[werecow]

here here!!!! copulation and procreation instead of antagination and destruction of nations!!!!!!im all "up" for that!!!!!

 

Uh, did you just say "Make love not war?!?"

 

B)

 

ummm yeah!!!!!! thats what i was trying to say!!!!!!

[werecow]

an i must agreee wit daffie....jus caus we is mericans dosent meen we is stoopid!!!!!!! so um yeah don make fun of us!!!!

[elderbear]

what I truly find revolting however is that a man in the position of power such as the president of the United States of America could use hate and bigotry to help motivate a large portion of the vote in the last election with his anti - gay marriage rhetoric .It is this stance among others that has me concerned that enlightenment in the United States anyways is a long ways off !!!

 

:cyclops: :cyclops: :cyclops:

 

I don't see what your problem is! After all, Adolph Hitler used hate and bigotry to win the German chancellorship in free and fair elections. President Bush simply follows another of his examples!

 

:cyclops: :cyclops: :cyclops:

[elderbear]

Elderbear, you have some very interesting and insightful thoughts. I thought I would ask you some questions that I always have difficulty answering.

 

First: You mentioned you have read or reading the bible. How do you view the passages that condemn homosexuality as in the story of Lot where they were punished by God?

 

I have read the Bible, and hold a BA degree in theology from a conservative Chrisian university, earned many years ago. My spiritual orientation has grown and transformed over the decades (although the news of John Paul II's death drove me to sobs this morning, and I had to pull off the freeway), however, and I have spent much less time reading the Bible. I never really dug into texts on homosexuality. It wasn't an issue of interest to me as an undergrad, and now it's not an issue for me because I conceptualize the Bible much differently than I did then.

 

Here's a link to a great site, though, Homosexuality and the Bible - it attempts to do justice to both conservative/infallible and humanistic interpretations of the Bible. I hope to read it in detail. If I have any insights beyond theirs, I'll post whatever is relevant.

 

My favorite response, which is also an evasion of sorts, is to suggest that you use a search tool or a concordance to count the references to homosexuality in the Bible. Then compare that to the number of references to the sin of humans judging each other. Or the sin of pride. Or the sin of neglecting the poor, the orphans, the widows, and the immigrants (aliens). From the numbe of references, what conclusions can you draw about the sins that concern God the most?

[elderbear]

"WHAT THE F**K" marriage has nothing to do with sexual preference, it's about a man & a woman!!

 

Once upon a time that used to be a White man and a White woman. Once upon a time those white men were legally allowed to beat their white wives with sticks in order to "correct" them.

 

I don't care what your definition of marriage is. The state has no business being in the marriage business at all. The state should only provide for civil unions, without discrimination. If you want to get married, get a civil union, then go to church, or your fraternal lodge, or your coven, or your synagogue, or your mosque, or your circle, or your group of friends, and get married according to the practices of your social/spiritual/psychological community. Leave the state out of it.

 

And "sexual preference" is a BAD phrase. Using it implies that you believe people one day wake up and decide "Today I'm gonna be a fag." Or "Today I'm gonna be a breeder."

 

Utter nonsense. Doesn't happen that way. The phrase "sexual orientation" is much more descriptive. It's not a matter of being PC, it's a matter of being honest with language.

 

Ask yourself, is your (presumed) heterosexuality a matter of preference or orientation. Do you simply prefer women to men, or is your libido fixated on women to the exclusion of men?

 

My preference is to wear a T-shirt with jeans. My orientation - well, that's not anybody's business unless we're working on a romantic relationship - and I'm not available for that, I'm committed to fidelity to my soul-mate. (Besides, I'm really obnoxious to live with - nobody would really want to put up with me who hasn't already spent twenty years getting used to me!)

[c0g]

First: You mentioned you have read or reading the bible. How do you view the passages that condemn homosexuality as in the story of Lot where they were punished by God?

.

 

 

OOh! OOh! Bible questions!!! c0g loves this game.

 

When Cain was banished to the land of Nod for killing Able, (Genesis 4:16) whom did he go to live with? Just who are these Nodians, and where did they come from? Are any of us descended from them? Are you? Are you sure?

 

Just how many sons did god have? The Christians and Catholics say that Jesus is the only Son of God, but the bible says that Adam was the son of god (Luke 3:38), and so was Melchizedek (Hebrews 7:3), so who should I worship as the only Son of God?

 

If I have sex with my daughters in a cave, do I have to get drunk first? (Genesis 19:30-38), or do I have to offer their virginity to an angry mob first? (Genesis 19:8)

 

My neighbor insists on working on the Sabbath. The bible says he should be put to death. (Exodus 35:2) Do I have to kill him, or is there a number I can call to report him or somthing?

 

When Jesus said, "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." (Mark 10:25) Did he mean every single president, congressman and senator that the United States has ever had, or did he mean some other different rich men? Are our leaders and founding fathers burning in hell or not?

 

If VonHelton is right, and Love and sex are the same thing, just what did Jesus mean when he said “This is my commandment, that ye love one another†(John 15:12) I mean sheesh, it was just him, 12 guys and a whore. Exactly who should love whom, and in what order?

 

Don’t get me wrong, I love Jesus, he was as big as the Beatles!!!

 

[elderbear]

it is a touchy subject here in canada. with many differant veiws and opinions. i basically feel that it should be the choice of those people involved. the state shouldnt have a say on who loves who.

 

Well were lucky the state doesn't dictate who you can love, simply who can marry & gain the benefits bestowed upon it.

 

As for Canada I don't have a problem with gay people getting married, in Canada gay couples already have all the same rights as heteralsexuals anyway.

 

The only issue in Canada is the "definition" of marriage, which is what they want to change to include gays & lesbians. This is totally wrong & can't be tolerated & will not be tolerated!! If gays & lesbians wish to marry then make up a new word or phrase to represent this type of relationship & grant it the same rights as marriage.

 

But not to worry the battle will continue for years, up here in Canada our current government doesn't even want to allow gays & lesbians the right to marry either, there not that Liberal!!

 

They only want the gay vote, as far as politics goes the Liberals know the gay & lesbian voters are just as stupid & gullible as the straight voters.

 

:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

 

If Canadian voters are all so "stupid," why don't they vote to become the 51st US State & "thrive" under G. W. Bush?

 

:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

[elderbear]

I think people should stop bashing americans.

 

When we behave honorably, I'm sure the number of potshots will drastically decrease. As long as we behave as a capricious, unilateralist, internationall bully (as it suits us), as long as we continue to consume the lion's share of the earth's resources, as long as we are the major polluter, as long as we support oppressive regimes ... I pretty much think we'll have target written all over us.

 

I would like not be be bashed. Even more than that, I'd like to live in a country that is above bashing.

[c0g]

I think people should stop bashing americans.

 

That's the Spirit!!! If as Americans, we're going to be intolerant of everything else, why not criticism too?

[VonHelton]

My favorite response' date=' which is also an evasion of sorts, is to suggest that you use a search tool or a concordance to count the references to homosexuality in the Bible. Then compare that to the number of references to the sin of humans judging each other. Or the sin of pride. Or the sin of neglecting the poor, the orphans, the widows, and the immigrants (aliens). From the numbe of references, what conclusions can you draw about the sins that concern God the most?[/quote']

 

Well, if they vote to make stealing legal tommorrow, you might have a point, but I doubt they will.

 

Of course, we made murder legal in some instances, so who knows??

 

:stare:

 

 

[coolcat13]

The last thing that i want to see is my United States getting bashed but it is the responsiability of the other nations of this world to stand against us in order to preserve freedom .

someone has to watch the watchdog once in a while and under our present regime we should be carefully scrutinized

[elderbear]

Michael Moore's The Awful Truth - Sodom Mobile

 

It's not science fiction - it's ... Michael Moore in a hot pink motorhome full of homosexuals visiting all the states that criminalized homosexual activity ... it's men kissing each other and Bible thumping Christians boldly proclaiming that "God hates fags" & "Thank God for AIDS." (John Wesley - the founder of Methodism - once said to George Whitefield, "Your God is my devil.")

 

It's an equal opportunity offender that only Michael Moore could get away with. It's also funnier than midget bowling, Gerald Ford tumbling down a ski slope, or George W. Bush trying to say "nuclear."

 

Enjoy - but don't say I didn't warn you!

[BorisP]

"WHAT THE F**K" marriage has nothing to do with sexual preference, it's about a man & a woman!!

 

Once upon a time that used to be a White man and a White woman. Once upon a time those white men were legally allowed to beat their white wives with sticks in order to "correct" them.

 

 

Ask yourself, is your (presumed) heterosexuality a matter of preference or orientation. Do you simply prefer women to men, or is your libido fixated on women to the exclusion of men?

!)

 

 

Did you know there are legitimate reasons to beat your wife? Can't wait to hear the reactions to that one. ;)

 

Sexual orientation is not personal preference, like drinking coke or pepsi. Sexual activity is usually based on physical need or physical reasons. Your guy's attitudes are based on a limited knowledge. You have listened to all the western science propaganda and formed your opinions based on that faulty information.

 

There are very concrete reasons why a person might be gay. It is possible to make a straight person go gay. I am pretty sure it is possible to make a gay person go straight.

 

Gay people are usually sick. I mean ill health, not judgementally. I think it is important for people to know that before they make a "lifestyle" choice based on faulty information.

 

Sex is not just about your sexual organ. Sex involves the entire body and effects the entire body. Most people don't know that. Western science is about components. Components for cars, or electronics or people.

 

Western science is about "Take a torso, stick on two arms for manipulation, stick on two legs for movement, stick on a head for processing capability and stick on a sex organ for procreation. Each item is a seperate component with no relation to the others.

 

This is an absolutetly false body view.

[Hellsfury]

I'm not really sure what to say but here I go *deep breath*...

 

I'm a gay man. I always have been. I always will be.

 

Simply because of this I am not your equal.

 

One part of my personality, one part of my reproductive habits, one simple part of my being is subtly different from the majority and I am an outcast.

 

Yes, things are changing but why does this gaping chasm, so full of malevolent threats, exist in the first place?

 

Why can I be killed in some countries simply for "making love" with another man?

 

Why don't heterosexuals accept me as a human, not a disease?

 

Why am I a second-class citizen both culturally and law-wise?

 

and,

 

Why do we have to be criminals because we want to be as human as heterosexuals?

 

If I can't be living the full life that I desire and is surely my right as a human-being to live, why should I keep on living?

 

(The last part almost denied the existence of this message...)

 

I don't know about the rest of you but I really do think that if we're ever to grow up as a species and to survive planetary hardship, the war on sexuality alongside racism, and basically rejection on all levels has to be resolved to let everyone be human. We can say that we don't need to be accepted to be part of the species, this is true of course but inevitably it will still leave a divide that costs lives- the alarming rate of gay teen suicide in my country, Northern Ireland is the perfect example of the result of the divide caused by not accepting that sexuality just isn't the most important part of being human.

 

Caring, knowing, including others is our measure of humanity. Threatening, raping, murdering our peers for tiny differences is the highest form of barbarism. Next time you read a religious text that advocates such crimes, ask exactly what was the author wanting to incite?

 

Also ask would you do what he/she wants?

 

 

 

 

 

Note: Lots of strong feelings about this from myself and everyone else so please lets have ALL sides of the argument!!

 

Notes note: I mean it!

 

^_^

[synexo]

Gay people are usually sick. I mean ill health, not judgementally. I think it is important for people to know that before they make a "lifestyle" choice based on faulty information.

 

BorisP I have to say I agree with you there. You almost never here that opinion anymore because of the persecution gays have suffered. I think being gay should be looked at like other mental 'illnesses', such as alcoholism, gambling, drug use, or sex addiction. Not that people should be prosecuted for any of those things, or forced into insane asylums or anything like that. Drugs and alcohol and gay sex should all be legal and acceptable behavior. It's just that none of those behaviors are 'healthy' in the sense of representing ideal individual behaviours for a 'healthy' society. Being gay is at the very least a mind/body reproductive disorder, and 2 gay people should be able to marry just like straight people with reproductive disorders. Likely all people will have some vices, and they should be tolerated by society for just that reason.

[werecow]

i am a straight male..ok that said here is my 2 bits...if a gay lifestyle is the one is you choose than that is your decision all i ask is that it not be shoved in my face ...ummm so to say...i feel that sexual preferences are a private matter like religion...should christians have to wear an arm band with a cross? should jews wear an arm band with the star of david? also then should gays wear a pink arm band? no to all the above..your preferences are yours, keep it to yourself as i also keep my private life to myself...

[Hellsfury]

Treating gay men/women as "mentally ill" is almost as bad as saying that we're "usually sick." If you're referring to sexual diseases, heterosexuals catch the same ones we do, catch it at higher rates and lord it over us because the media love sick gay couples to pity.

 

Oh this makes me so angry.

 

Where is the proof that homosexuality is a mental illness? For that matter where is the proof that Heterosexuality is the perfect state for a human? (Population overload anyone...)

 

If you want to start arguing about "destructive lifestyles," ask yourself exactly "why" do some gay men/women self-destruct?

 

I have one possible answer- Heterosexuals.

 

The climate of discrimination and widespread homophobia leads to the impression in gay teenagers that they aren't wanted, that they have no purpose, ( and this is personal experience) and with so much prejudice around alchohol, drugs, promiscuity- the ancient devices to drown oneself in - come into play - and let's not forget this exact same problem occurs in heterosexual teams rejected by the majority.

 

If I sound embittered it's because a dear friend suffered from homophobic parents and peers, forced to flee from home and last I heard from him, he was wrecked, just because he was different in one way. Elderbear cried for the pope. I cry for him and the hundreds if not thousands of others who crash and burn because they're different.

 

 

Lastly... if anyone's heard of gay people being "cured" (ie: turned to straight) have a look at the methods. A certain similarity to modern torture methods and it isn't a cure.

 

 

Argh have to stop before I really get going... :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Hellsfury]

NB: My opinions aren't meant to paint over others- I'm just impassioned about the topic so sorry if I offend^_^ !

[werecow]

NB: My opinions aren't meant to paint over others- I'm just impassioned about the topic so sorry if I offend^_^ !

 

well thats what the topic is...gay or straight...i have heard many theories about why some ppl are gay ...conditioning through enviroment..genetic...simple curiosity..i dont know or claim to have any answers i am just a cow...moo