BitKeeper Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 What would you prefer, honer, and live with and amungst the hionerable klingons? or power and live at peace with the romulans and the frengi? i have to go with the frengi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymity Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 How about both honor and power and then live amongst the honorable and powerful federation? They are both aren't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relentless Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Honour with Power, Power With Honor for there is no honor in not seizing power honourably. To keep your race/federation safe is to be with honour but to let the sun go down on your anger is to be vain in a sense of illusional honor therefore this choice seems to be void due to the unhonourable perception of "honour" and "power". :p B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TetsuoShima Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Ferengi? Personally I find the Ferengi a horribly foul species! And why would the Klingons not qualify as powerful? I think the Klingons are certainly more powerful than the Ferengi. The Romulans are not really a sound option, since most of the time they cannot be trusted. I assume the goals is to choose an ally for the Federation from these 3 species and so I can only conclude that the Klingons are the only suitable ally. The StarTrek storywriters seem to mostly agree with me on this point. Not that there were no alliances with the other species, but the one with the Klingons did seem to be the most stable one. If I personally had to choose an ally from these three, I'd also go for the Klingons, not that I'm such a great fan of theirs, but the other two possiblities are simply to unreliable. Personally if I had to choose a species, not as an ally, but as my own species, I'd have a very hard time deciding wether I'd choose Klingon or Romulan. I think in the end I'd go for Romulan since I believe the likelyhood of their survival is bigger than that of the Klingons. Of course all this reasoning only applies for my assumptions and if they were correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Ferengi? Personally I find the Ferengi a horribly foul species! Yeah... especially since they're so intentionally a caricature of much of our society -_-' And why would the Klingons not qualify as powerful? I think the Klingons are certainly more powerful than the Ferengi. The Romulans are not really a sound option, since most of the time they cannot be trusted. Heh... all are mirrors of different aspects of humanity, really. That's why they're all so monocultural. Even the Dominion is simply a look at our imperial side, so recently cloaked in humanitarianism. The Klingons are stereotypical Vikings... the Romulans are our more xenophobic side, the Ferengi is the modern business world, the Dominion is a mirror of 16th-19th century imperialism complete with the dehumanization of the 'savage lesser races'... and the Federation is an 'ideal' image of a galactic society. Me, I'd like an order of power sprinkled with honour, please ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piepie Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 What alien race would modern day US and UK be in Trekville? There's elements of corporate feudalism, theocracy and facism in our so called democracies. Do the Borg represent communism in is "purest" form? (As you can see most of my knowledge of political systems comes from the civilization games :P) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 I like to think the Borg is a tribute / cross breed of the Cybermen from Doctor Who and the Amnion from Stephen R. Donaldson's 'Gap' series... the Cybermen for their habit of 'building' Cybermen from members of other species, and the Amnion for their biochemical assimilation and hive mind (very much like the Borg with their nanomachines... except the Amnion use tailored virii and are purely organic) Actually, they're mostly based on the Amnion, now that I think about it... just tweaked to use nanomachines and cybernetics ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piepie Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 I like to think the Borg is a tribute / cross breed of the Cybermen from Doctor Who and the Amnion from Stephen R. Donaldson's 'Gap' series... the Cybermen for their habit of 'building' Cybermen from members of other species, and the Amnion for their biochemical assimilation and hive mind (very much like the Borg with their nanomachines... except the Amnion use tailored virii and are purely organic) Actually, they're mostly based on the Amnion, now that I think about it... just tweaked to use nanomachines and cybernetics ^^ Probably all derived from zombies and vampires - your body surviving when infected but your will is gone or severely distorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Scratch that... the date of publication for the first Gap book is 1991... two years after the Borg were introduced in Star Trek. Either it's parallel and seperate development, or he snagged the idea ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piepie Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 I reckon it is something archetypal. Borgs, zombies, cybermen yadda yadda yadda all involve the loss of self somehow, and arises the whole "us and them" mentality, and if it is an archetype it would explain why they are so bloody scary. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a myth in antiquity that has something similar. They could have both ripped the idea off Doctor Who, but then again, Doctor Who could have ripped off Night of the Living Dead, and that something else, or all could have arisen independently from something in our psyches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yammichi Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Without Honor There is no life............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulreaper Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I'd like to delve further into this and say that first and foremost, the inner personal honor most be cared for (i.e.; inner TRUE dreams and goals consistent with who you are) Because if you do, you draw power from there, from within. Power from "things" outside yourself is not true power it's a shadow and an illusion. There's an African proverb that Les Brown likes to quote: "If there is no enemy within, the enemy outside can do no harm" I agree with that, I know it is so, hence this reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Honour, like everything else, is very relative and invariably personally defined. One person's 'honorable behavior' is another person's 'atrocity'. The best thing we can really do is work towards actions that have the least negative impact on everybody ^^... THAT, is honorable to me ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcazant Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Power above honour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcant Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 the more power a group maintains and wishes to hold onto then it seems to me the more "flexible" their honour system becomes teo old maxims which I think hold true on this mattert are Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely The road to hell is paved with good intentions! To maintain your own groups supremacy people are prepared to do some pretty horrendous things, yet still feel they are honour bound to do them I'm willing to bet a number of Concentration camp guards figured they were doing the "honourable" thing for their people as a previous poster said honour is a relative concept Although they are technically westernised, i have a few japanese friends and though I agree with many of there principals I still find it hard to fully grasp their mindset, they are honourable and yet their yardstick is different to mine I often think There is as much chance of us all agreeing on what is honourable than there is of seeing a Catholic suicide bomber! So I vote for power. At least then you have a free hand to do what you consider best, even if you go down in history as a villian, at least you have a free hand (Or maybe that is an honourable thing? being prepared to get your hands dirty for the sake of others?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oma Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Honor, I suppose.... since apathy wasn't an option... :p (...) The Klingons are stereotypical Vikings... (...) WTF? Well, vikings were farmers when they weren't out collecting other peoples things. The mental image of a klingon wearing a broad-rimmed hat and overalls shovelling targ-poo cracks me up! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulreaper Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Vikings were FAR more honorable than the caveman/animal-with technology-like savage klingons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maverick Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 He Man had honour and the power of greyscull. :) what a guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorunNova Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 WTF? Well, vikings were farmers when they weren't out collecting other peoples things. The mental image of a klingon wearing a broad-rimmed hat and overalls shovelling targ-poo cracks me up! :D I said STEREOTYPICAL Vikings, not REAL vikings -_-'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
str82u Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Honor, power would come from the associations. You can trust others when they can trust you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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