are we coming to a point where religion is doing more bad than good?

[raden]

i belive the time is coming when we as a people are going to have to decide wheather we can afford to have any kind of reglion. i belive this is something that we need an answer to and soon. given all the problems of late including the cartoon the increse in fundmenlists of all faiths what is the answer if any (sorry about the spelling)

 

[queenhank]

Coming to a point? We got to that point in the middle ages (perhaps before), and have been past it since. There was a time when religion was a collection of explanations for things which had no other explanations, and thus it sparked curiosity into how things worked, and why. But the moment it became the end, rather than the means to an end, it became dangerous.

[raden]

i agree with you the main problem as i see it is that we did'nt have the firepower in the middle ages that we have now so how do we stop recent problems getting worse? and stopping a so called holy war from starting if it has'nt started allready

[NiteShdw]

Moved: This thread belongs in Mirror Universe

[GewehrSoldat]

You can't outlaw religion. Atheists have no more right to decide that religion is not needed than religious groups have to decide that atheism is heresy.

 

However, I can see laws based on religion being banished, as well as door to door preaching. If you want to worship your invisible sky daddy, feel free to do so, but I don't want you at my door at 9:30AM trying to convince me that I have to get on my knees and worship your diety in order to avoid being tortured for eternity.

[Exterus]

Coming to a point? We got to that point in the middle ages (perhaps before)' date=' and have been past it since. There was a time when religion was a collection of explanations for things which had no other explanations, and thus it sparked curiosity into how things worked, and why. But the moment it became the end, rather than the means to an end, it became dangerous.[/quote']

What he/she said.

 

Religion doesn't serve any purpose any longer. Long ago, different tribes and primitive cultures around the world looked for something that could explain matters and keep their people in line. Without any means for actually finding out how things worked, the concept of a deity or a number of deities that were said to be behind it all was constructed. No explanations beyond those were needed when confronted with larger than life figures that would punish them if things were questioned or rules were disobeyed.

 

Do we really need old tribal gods to tell us how to behave and what to believe in these modern times? No, I don't think we do.

 

EDIT: I'm not saying religion should be outlawed, people can think whatever they want, no matter however silly notions they might have. What I hope is that we will outgrow our need to believe in fairytales to give meaning to our lives.

[Mav]

There's no way to, forceably remove religion and it's effects on people who believe in it. However I do think that we should, at least my country, should start more active measures for seperating church and state, sort of.

 

Like, I think the big problem with religion is, two parents have a child and then basically force their chosen religion on that child. While I can understand parents have X amount of rights in their own home and how their children are raised, I cannot understand how parents can force children to go to church every Sunday, read a bible daily, pray every night, etc We are supposed to teach our kids individuality, choice, freedom, this is what my country stands for right? Yet we drill into their heads the information and worship of a religion, how life is supposed to be lived (high school -> college -> career job -> marriage -> kids of their own), etc Yet it conflicts what we as society (in my country) say about freedom of choice, freedom of speech.

 

Sure, children grow up and eventually as they grow can make their own informed decision on such a thing. But by then they've gone through what, 10, 12, 18 years of having a certain religion drilled into them like an army boot camp.

 

That's what gets me about religion. Forcing it apon people.

[andrewj]

http://www.demonoid.com/torrents/details/270718/ Is a good documentary de bunking religion.

It explains how jesus started as myth and became a religion.

[Carlvsi]

We had a documentary a few weeks ago in the UK in which the guy basically said all religion should be scrapped. His reason was that without religion we would just have good people doing good things and bad people doing bad things. Whereas with religion we end up with good people doing bad things. This to me is an interesting idea. He explored many facets of religion, pointing out to each his personal view. It was interesting to see their answers to his ideas, lots of negative emotion pouring out of them, however veiled. The part I remember the most is, I`m afraid in the USA, Philladelphia I think, they have built a Bible oriented museum of creation. It incorporates dinosaurs into it and has the earth dated at about 8,000 years old I think. It totally rejects any form of Darwinism, and no matter how much evidence the presenter gave, he was told that he was wrong and they were right, He ended up being "politely" asked to get off their property. Most amusing.

 

IMO If we got rid of religion, there would be no bad(evil) or good as these are purely religious concepts.

 

I don`t see good or evil in nature or the universe, what I do see is positive, negative and neutral. This I beleive is the same with people and their actions. A positive person can do something positive or negative for themselves or others. Or they can do nothing ie neutral. In the same way so can a negative person or a neutral person.

We need all three parties to create a society, the positives reacting to the negatives and vice versa, whilst the neutrals try to mediate. In this way we cause progress.

 

Personally, I was sent to Sunday School from the age of 5 (mainly so that my mother could get us all out the house to do the housework and listen to ABBA). Neither of my parents were religious and we were all left to our own ideas. It was morals that I most remember, I never saw it as a life comitment to religion.

At 8 I joined the church choir, again not because of religion but because I enjoyed singing and this was the only way outside school that I could. I also got paid £1.50 for weddings and £2.50 for funerals.

Obviously as soon as teenage angst set in, I left. :p

 

The only part of all religions that I can condone is belief. Belief is something greater than us, something so incomprehensible that we cannot label it as God, Allah, Muhammed, Vishnu, or any other euphemism. I am merely a microscopic part of some great whole, who am I to name it.

 

Anyway in conclusion, yes religion is doing more bad than good and has been since we used it as an excuse to kill.imho ;)

 

On a lighter note I once saw a Red neck get asked something about the Bible being translated back into Hebrew or Sanskrit. His reply "Don`t need none o` that, if English was good enough for Jesus, then it`s good enough for me".LMFAO :D B) :D

 

 

[GorunNova]

I think religion has definitely outlived it's usefulness, especially as we grow more advanced as a people. You see, belief in a God / Goddess / etc. is a convenient cop-out for taking personal responsibility for your life and your actions. Instead of deciding what they believe is good and truly -thinking- about what it is to do good or bad, most believers instead look up to what their religion -tells- them is good and bad with no thought about the impact one's behavior has on the world around them. Religion is an autopilot for the soul, an outside director dictating what one should discover by themselves. Christianity in particular is truly bad in this respect, giving a quick route for 'forgiveness' simply by asking for it from Jesus Christ. You have to -work- for forgiveness in other religions, and for a believer to simply pray and be absolved just like that is too easy, resulting in more transgressions. The only 'forgiveness' that counts is that from the wronged party, imho.

 

I don't see Good and Evil in the universe either... only that which betters us all, and that which hinders us all, and I'm pretty certain religion hinders more than it helps. If more people were interested in bettering humanity instead of themselves getting into the heaven of their choice, the world would be a much nicer place.

 

The only thing that is incomprehensible is that which hasn't really been examined... and humans love seeing elaborate, complex masses where none exist. It's hard to examine an elaborate, complicated mass when it isn't really there, after all! Our immense skill at seeing even subtle patterns does lead to occasionally seeing patterns that aren't there... just ask any child who's afraid of the monster in the closet or under the bed. ;)

 

I don't trust any belief system that relies on known shortcuts in our neurophysiology (i.e. fMRIs have shown that religious feelings trigger specific parts of the brain and cause a diminishment in our ability to differentiate self from non-self). Such unifying neural shortcuts may have let us survive in tribal days, but we've grown past that... and such 'religious feelings' have caused too much irrational behavior leading to bloodshed, pain, and division... not to mention possibly being tied to 'mob thinking'.

 

Isn't it funny that the practitioners of one of the biggest religions in the world only know it through several layers of translation from works that were themselves filtered through a council with it's own agendas? I think it's hilarious...

 

I think religion should be banned until one's old enough to actually think through and analyze the belief and not just absorb it like a sponge.

[yudd]

THIS is a good discussion but in reality, USA is only 5% of the World Population, therefore it's opinion hardly matters. If you are talking about global scale, you should look at China, India , and Russia who hold the largest bloc of people on Earth. Also, you are forgetting about culture vs religion, there is no difference, its not a dialectic, culture is riddiled with religion, and wthout culture there is no identity. Lets take something like arranged marraige which is adopted by the muslims as well as hindus but its also cultural, so if you want them to shed this then you want them to adopt Westernism, which is also a culture which is based on religion. SO you can't remove religion from culture or vice versa. Also most of the world's population lives in tHird WOrld countries where there aren't that many oppurtunities for school and such, so kids only learn limited info from their parents and they can only derive it from religious texts. Unless there is some Universal Education Reform this discussion is only limited to Western Civilization or Modern Civilization which i think has some what of an inferiority complex. If western civilization is so superior then why is it leaving the rest of the Earth wihtout education.

[yudd]

Before you argue that its not the WEstern Civilizations responsibility for the fiscal and educational matters of lesser coutries, remember, free trade sucks wealth from the many and gives it to a few and is in some regards even more devastating than other horrible western economic practices (not that i denigrate africa). Capitalism robs form the whole world and has a monopoly becasue you cant have any other economic system anywhere in the world if Capitalism exists. THats why the whole world has to play the game because if you dont play then you have anarchy or a collapse. If Russia had succeded i there would be another economic system possible, buts its not, so every country, even the poor have to be capitalists. Thus the poor loose, and since they dont have money to have education, the population only learns from their holy books.

 

Remeber this, THe western civilization is only richer than the Third World because they were accumilating their wealth through slavery and through colonization long before the rest of the world. They had a head start so they are richer. SO now then can be poumpous about discussing abolishing religion with out thinking of global ramifications

 

Also, just so you know i agree, religion causes more harm but then you could say that Imperalism has caused more harm than anything religion has ever done. If you take all the battles fought over religion through out entire known history and add it to if Noahs flood actually happened and then compare it to the death toll of WW1 & WWII, who would win.

[Manuxtreme]

Gotta agree with yudd. The lack of proper education in most developing countries force them to look at religion for answers. Hence why most problems are religious based in this countries. I think though as we advance, hopefully religion will be forgotten as at the moment it is the root of most evil in the world now that good.

[MrDad]

You are all wrong. The problem is we are all animals at heart. Beneath our thin veneer of cerebral cortex are all the desires, needs and instincts of a beast. All religion is no more than an attempt to restrain that animal inside us all. Eliminate religion and a symptom is gone, and for some the only restraint on behavior they possess. Eliminating the problem will require a fundamental alteration of the human brain itself.

[Carlvsi]

You are all wrong. The problem is we are all animals at heart. Beneath our thin veneer of cerebral cortex are all the desires' date=' needs and instincts of a beast. All religion is no more than an attempt to restrain that animal inside us all. Eliminate religion and a symptom is gone, and for some the only restraint on behavior they possess. Eliminating the problem will require a fundamental alteration of the human brain itself.[/quote']

 

:rolleyes:

 

Bit harsh. :p

 

I have to disagree, We are not all wrong. We may be wrong, but so may you.

 

Having a quick scan up the thread I am not sure when it turned into Abolish All Religion. We were merely pointing out in our humble opinions, where we thought religion was doing more harm than good.

 

I would agree with yudd, religion and culture are inextricably linked. What I would point out is that it is the intelligence of the people to differentiate between what parts are what. You can read the Bible in much the same way as Greek myths or Siddhartha`s journey or any other religious text. They are historic "fairy tales" or "soaps", they are there to instill a sense of moral attitude. This doesn`t mean that we should all go out and copy the lives mentioned, but instead to learn from them and hope that we can live a fulfilling life.

 

With regard to us Westerners putting the world to rights by banning religion and not taking into account The Third World. It would really be a different thread but for the fact , the worlds largest ecconomies are pretty much governed by their belief systems and the Catholic Church amongst other major Belief Organisations weren`t so rich, sitting on their wealth. I`m sure that if all the wealth pooled together, we could feed, clothe, house and more, every single person.

 

Yes, we should all be able to share this massive explosion of resource now at our disposal, but we don`t. Why?

Because Religion seperates us and divides who can get on with who. If we all started accepting religion for what it really is, ie belief guide, not life manual, then maybe we could address all the wrongs in the world.

 

Unfortunately, it was man that put into place these systems, it is for man to change them. How? If I knew that, I would probably have been shot by now.lol

 

Seriously though, we are seeing a major shake up in the worlds governing bodies, not all for the good, but as I have already mentioned we need the positives reacting with the negatives to cause change.

:D B) :D

 

Oh, and please remember, all of this is IMHO. ;)

[jhug666]

deep down everyones a ferengi . rule of aquisition i cant remember

[str82u]

THIS is a good discussion but in reality' date=' USA is only 5% of the World Population, therefore it's opinion hardly matters. If you are talking about global scale, you should look at China, India , and Russia who hold the largest bloc of people on Earth.[/quote']

I love catching people on facts, This is from Population reference Bureau

POPULATION IN MILLIONS

1 China 1,304

2 India 1,104

3 United States 296

4 Indonesia 222

5 Brazil 184

6 Pakistan 162

7 Bangladesh 144

8 Russia 143

9 Nigeria 132

10 Japan 128

And on top of that, more developed countries have less increase in population that less, and since we are more developed and have people beating down our doors for money and support, I'd say our 5% of the world population has a bit of weight to it. Our opinion matters because we pay for it.

Religion and culture do get intertwined, but that doesn't mean religion has outlived it's usefulness, it just means that some brands or concepts are off kilter, and c'mon, all those peace loving Gods out there that have gotten people killed, even the Christian concept/understanding of God has caused problems. "Thou Shalt Not Kill" , "'Vengance Is Mine', saith the Lord" and on and on.

What I've been hearing about this cartton fiasco is that the way these people have been taught, the beliefs that have ingrained in them is such that they believe in what they are doing, but it seems that they are under the controll of someone else, but who?

This isn't a phantom, this is a group who is so pissy that they one day decided what and how peoeple are educated in religion and the pressure them to act.

Mr. Dad, yeas, we are all animals, you're right, with or without religion we can act right, whatever right happens to be.

[yudd]

My mistake when i meant Russia i was thinking about the USSR group of countries. sorry for that, i hadnt realized russia now has only 143 million people.

[TFMF]

I don't beleive in god or anything like that - my opinion on the subject is - we'd be a lot better off without religion - it just seems to have caused so much trouble....

[MrDad]

If religion is the primary cause of the world's ills, then the Soviet Union should have literally been a 'worker's paradise'. After all, it was a completely secular country, officially atheist, and had a moral policy completely based in secular humanism.